luckyloser

From my experience. I have always gotten paid at every casino i have played at if its been a netent casino. Ofcourse there are exeptions.. Fore instant i would never deposit a dime in slotobank after the stories ive heard. And im pretty amazed as to why netent has not pulled out of that site. I guess its because netent delivers the games to everymatrix and not to slotobank itself. But in all my years playing i have played at most net ent casinos and in all the places i have won i have never had any serious problems. Might have been a few delays here and there but i always got my money within a reasonable timeframe.

Here are some stats from one player: Dead or Alive: 9716 features Wins over 1000xBet: 66 or 1 in 147 features 1000xBet+ without a wildline/5 scatters: 5 times 5 wilds on a line: 51 times 5 scatters: 10 times So we know the feature triggers once every 150 spins on average. and you get a 1000x bet every 147 features on average(his average atleast) That would be 150 x 147 = 22050. So you could expect a 1000x bet win or bigger once every 22050 spins. Seeing how this player must have done +/- 1457400 spins judging from the amount of features he has recorded. This should put his stats close to the TRTP of the game(The statistical expected payout or theoritical return to player) But i am nowhere near these stats latley. Im going to log my bonus rounds from now on. I didd this last year trying to spot a pattern but i grew tired of it. My results from one casino: 1: 23 x bet 2: Wildline 1733 x bet 3: 55 x bet 4: 44 x bet 5: 8 x bet 6: 202 x bet 7: 12,5 x bet 8: 7 x bet 9: 14 x bet 10: 8.5 x bet 11: 4,8 x bet 12: 11.5 x bet 13: Wildline 2851 x bet 4 scatters 14: 60 x bet 15: 25 x bet 16: 66x bet 17: 25x bet 18: 10x bet 19: 31x bet 20: 31x bet 21: 12x bet 22: 12x bet 23: 34x bet 24: 8x bet 25: Wildline 2567x bet 26: 8x bet 27: 7x bet 28: 8x bet 29: 23x bet 30: 7x bet 31: 108x bet 32: 12.6x bet 33: 8.8x bet 34: 15x bet 35: 79x bet 36: 26.5x bet 37: 131x bet 5 extra spins 38: 80x bet 5 extra spins 39: 35x bet 40: 30x bet 41: 10x bet 42: 227x bet 5 extra spins 43: 7x bet 44: 40x bet 45: 73x bet 46: 8.8x bet 47: 38.8x bet 48: 13.7x bet 49: 13.7x bet 50: 4.8x bet 51: 114x bet 52: 71.3x bet 53: 6.6x bet 54: 80.6x bet 55: 30.6x bet 56: 16.4x bet 57: 15.7x bet 58: 21.3x bet 59: 30.2x bet 60: 13.3x bet 61: 13.1x bet 62: 9.7x bet 63: 16.8x bet 64: 5.7x bet 65: 13.6x bet 66: 5.3x bet 67: 22.2x bet 68: 4 scatters - 31.2x bet 69: 17.3x bet 70: 57.8x bet 71: 7.7x bet 72: 32.7x bet 4 scatters 73: 109,3x bet 74: 21.5 x bet 75: 29.7x bet 76: 24.8x bet 77: 53.6x bet 4 scatters 78: 22.8x bet 79: 27.7x bet 80: 36.7x bet 4 scatters 81: 47.3x bet 81: 57.11x bet 82: 7.3x bet 83: 12.6x bet 84: 8x bet 85: 8x bet 86: 14.8x bet 87: 71.3x bet 88: 11.1x bet 89: 27.3x bet 90: 12.6x bet 91: 35.1x bet 92: 6.6x bet 93: 24.2x bet 94: 11x bet 95: 23.7x bet 96: 7.1x bet 97: 16.6x bet 98: 7.5x bet 99: 25.1x bet 100: 6.8x bet 101: 42.4x bet 102: 48.4x bet 103: 12x bet 104: 18.2x bet 105: 5.3x bet 106: 60.5x bet 4 scatters 107:18.2x bet 108: 75.1x bet 109: 29.2x bet 110: 7.3x bet 111: 10.1x bet 112: 28.2x bet 113: 29.3x bet 114: 28.8x bet 115: 31.1x bet 116: 11.5x bet 117: 6x bet 118: 12.8x bet 119: 120: 42 121: 88 122: 38 123: bet 9 - 274 124: bet 9 - 162 125: bet 9 - 128 126: As you can see i was very lucky early on and all my big wins a clustered together in a very short amount of features, then there is a long dead patch. Random?? hmmm

Hehe thanks Yes, by "Dead spins" i mean spins with no win at all, 0 paying. But the one thing i find stange about all slots. Is even taking all this in to account if it was truly random, then why does almost every game always go completely dead after a big win? What i mean by dead is suddenly most spins pay 0 or lower than stake. Also yesterday i found the absolute worst slot game of all time: "Joker Millions" By Yggdrasil. I lost 100 on 0.75 bets with a RTP of under 10%.. Thats outragous lol. Tried it again today and there is barley any wins. I counted 60!!! spins with no price in a row. It was so bad i had to ask the support in the casino if it was something wrong with the game. These kind of games makes me wonder and severly question "randomness" how can one play 130 spins and have 120 losing spins... Should really not be possible.

You can usually spot this by looking at the max possible win pr spin. Games with 200-500 x bet maxwins is low variance. 500-1500x usually medium variance. If a game is capable of 2500x + its usually high to very high variance. Then there is also something called "Hit frequency" this is how often the games pay a win on average. Fore example i belive i read on a spreadsheet about netent games that DOA has a hit frequency of 1/3. That means on average every 3 spin should produce a winning combination. So a game thats high variance but has a high hit frequency(DOA fore example) might give you more playtime than a game thats low variance and has a very low hit frequency. (The latter seams to be the new trend fore net ent games.) Wish master is another example. Its very high variance and has a very low hit frequency(dont know the numbers, but you can tell by the amount of dead spins on average) so this game is more likley to bust you out quick. Im not really sure whats the math behind this and why they choose different hit frequencys. A game thats very high variance and has a very low hit frequency might be very frustrating to play most of the time(The wish master, Wonky Wabbits) So i dont really understand why they chose this as it might discourage players to play the game again if they have poor results the first time around. If you play slots fore entertainment only i would play medium variance games(Low variance is no point as you will never get ahead). If you play fore big wins i would choose high variance games. You might hit a good streak on medium variance games also. But the huge single wins are in the high variance maschines. If you play medium variance games only i would bounce from slot to slot when it goes "cold" these cold and hot streaks are much more noticeable on low/medium variance games IMO. PS. My suggestions on how to play are just my personal opinions and people should play however they feel like themselves.

Funny how the ***** (ok so that word was not allowed, lets use a synonym then: "mammaries") on the girl symbol wiggle when the reels stopp Just try to notice it next time you play it

Wow, its nice to see atleast some of us are lucky Been playing allot of other games myself latey and that has given me a few nice cashouts aswell. But yesterday i got 4 wilds on a line 4 times but never the last one unfortunatly. It went on allitle hot streak so i upped the stakes and was lucky and landed 4 on a line on 2.70 witch netted me a cool 1700

If it is truly random then there is no such thing as a hot machine. Then its just random luck.. But these amazing streaks do happen, had one myself now and then. And the crazy thing about it is it doessent matter what game you play when its hot its hot no matter what and vice versa. Thats another argument i have against it being random

Seen a video of this slot. Dont hold your breath waiting fore that mega win is all im saying lol Another low variance crappfest as usual.

The thing is i have never questioned the payout % of these games. I know they pay what they are supposed to pay. But its how they arrive at this payout % that is the interesting part. There may be other mechanics than randomness, a reason for this you may ask? Well, fore example a game that has more near misses, or the how the variance itself behaves can make a game boring or fun. The more fun or exiting a game is the more people play. So thats one of the motives they may have to "controll" the variance. As an example DoA thats one of my favourite slots and is a very popular slot. It has countless threads in every gambling forum. The thing is tough, as i said in another thread its been paying allot poorer the last 3 months or so than before. Not only to me, but other forum members and people on other forums has made threads about this also. My question is simply the lisencing authority they really dont bother about how the pays are structured right? As long as the game pays what its supposed to pay over that spessific time periode. Lets say DoA has gotten very popular among more recreational players also, not just the hardcore high variance slot players. Net ent might have adjusted the variance on the game, or maybe it pays more on the lower bets. Most screenshots i have seen latley has been on very low bets. And allot of people seam to have had a horrible time with this game latley. I have basicly hammered this game for 2-3 years now. I have had so many wins from 2500x - 10 000x that i have lost track of how many. The thing is before this game used to almost always give allot of bonus rounds. And yes most paid crapp, but it seams its been allot harder the last 3 months or so to get: A) The bonus round (Might get a few in a streak, but before it would come in allot more often and some times go on crazy streaks where it came every 20-50 spins untill you hit the jackpot, could basicly spot when this was about to happen) The average bonus round return seams to have been adjustet to pay lower. (Not just me saying this) C) Get a no wild bonus round allot more often now that before, infact in the last 2 years i think this was a fluke that happend to me now and then,but now it happens almost every other session. D) Before if i played this game about every day fore a week or so i would hit a wildline or 5 scatters, but now it seams its waaaaay more difficult to get that "Ace" card in the card deck. E) The 5 extra spins but no wildline used to come ALLOT more often than now. And im not the only one notecing this, its definitely not the same game. Also take all the newest games from allot of providers NetEnt in particular. Their new games seams to be mostley very low variance but they are still very volatile... How is this even possible? There are more dead spins on stickers,neon stack and dracula than on DoA. And this trend seams to continue. I swear some day they will design a game that you cannot make a proffit on. Because basicly on the newer games the "Randomness" aand"variance" seams so weird that its if they have designed the games so that it will give you some playtime but no proffit, never. This itself makes me think its not all random like that.. It might be random who wins the money or not but the spins and stuff just seams controlled in some manner. Paricularly the way DoA has changed latley im certain something has been done to this game and the "timer theory" in my OP seam to go hand in hand with this.

I would love if net ent and MG came into the forum and answered or explained allitle about slots.. Would put allot of conspirsacy theories to rest. The fact that they dont ever give an answer is what makes me more suspicious.

Really good reply here

I agree. The person who posted on the swedish forum also made a new post where he said exactley the same thing. Money in vs money out. The game cannot pay out if it has not gotten enough money in. Money in is paid out in increments and some is spared for the "jackpot" or in dead or alive "the wildline" or 5 scatters. Some people will argue this is how an AWP machine works and not a random slot. But im pretty sure its all the same. Fore example "classic" slots such as Jackpot 6000, Mega joker and super nudge 6000 is AWP slots. Basicly feed the slot enough and it will pay always. But you might lose more than you get, or you can hit a streak or "jackpot" of multiple jackpot wins. Thats why casinos dont allow bonus play on these or the wagering is 0 or very low. But im pretty sure the so called RNG slots also have a simular setup maybe just allitle more complicated. Because as you said it has to have some kind of protection mechanisme buildt in. Or else casinos can take heavy losses in the first couple of days/week starting a casino. Then the question is, does bet size matter? Surley the game will then differentiate from a bet of 0.09 euros or a bet of 0.90.. Hitting the money shoot here will be hundreds of euros vs thousands. My theory is simply the game will pay the amount it wants regardless of the betsize. If the game decides to pay you 10 000 euros and you bet low it will give you an amazing streak and if you bet big you will win one big win. I have seen this happen to myself countless times.. Betting 0.90 winning a few thousand then before i cash out i decide to play my balance down to the nearest 500 on higher stakes and boom hit an amazing win as soon as i raise the stakes.

It was kinda hard for me to translate the (google translate part) myself also. Since im Norwegian myself i do understand swedish to an extent, but some words and sayings are allitle confusing. But i think we all got the point the poster was trying to make. Well, lets say the games are auditied on a monthley basis and they have to payout their expected return to player each month across all casinos combined. Then its really easy to understand why there might be some underlying algorythem that controlls the payouts. Lets say one month the games have paid very poor RTP of 70% and the game should pay 96% then the system might adjust it so that by the end of the month it has paid 96%. My concern is as follows: If it was truly random and all game outcomes and reel stopps are just the result of a computer picking 5 random stopp positions according to a reelstrip. Then theoireticly a new casino could experience heavy losses the first day of opening. Lets say 100 people deposit 100 euros each and they all play Dead or alive. Lets say the average player bets between 0.09 and 0.90 euros pr spin. Fore convienice sake lets say 90 out of 100 players in this case bets in this range. Some win some lose. Then the last ten players play the max bet 18 euros. Even tough its unlikley( i dont know the odds of getting a 1000x or above win on this game but i estimate 1 in 150 000) what if all those 10 players hit a monster win.. We all know this game could pay over 40 000x if you hit the perfect bonus round. I myself have gotten a 10 000x stake win so i know this is possible. Then mulitply that by 18 euros then across ten players... The casino would be banckrupt the first day. This is why i dont think its 100% random, but controlled in some way... Sure it might be random who wins and who loses but not random in the true sence. Also why have i never seen screenshots of any of the maxwins possible on netent games? Only one i think i have seen is a full screen of wilds on Jack and the beanstalk. I have never seen a full screen of wilds on dead or alive, or never the max win on wonkey wabbits,Wild turkey,thunderfist and so on.. Ok the odds might be against it but every month someone hits the eurojackpot and the odds is 1/75 million and i doubt the odds of hitting a full screen of wilds is higher than this. This is why i think there is some buildt in mechanic to protect the casinos/software provider from ever losing. Im not saying casinos rigg the games. As you said above, the software providers keep game mechanics a company secret. But remember the more people lose the more the software providers make. By me saying this i just want to make it clear that im not saying its rigged so you cannot win. But im saying that its other mechanics at play than it seams. And i really think people have the right to know what they are gambling on. But that might be a problem for the software providers. If people knew the whole concept and mechanics of a slot they could possible take this knowlegde and gain an advantage.

Yes but are you sure netent keeps all the cards in the deck at any given time? Not so sure about that

Yes, makes me wonder about Dead or alive. Suddenly it was very hot. I hit multiple wildlines in 2 weeks time and some person strarted posting videos of wildline on 3.6,7,2,9 and two times on 18 bet. And then after that the game went completley cold for several months. Makes me wonder...

Yes and the big question is if this is true, how is it time controlled? Is it a certain periode? Is it a certain amount wagered totally trough the game?, Is it a certain number of spins? Even casinos themselves have given me some strange answers after i have questioned my RTP after som extremly bad sessions with RTP under 50%. One casino told me that the game works on picking probabilities. And that after winning big the probability of another big win is very low. He might be talking about randomness or is he? Just to clarify though the person who made the post in a swedish forum didd not program online slots. But physical slots. But he said he is pretty sure they all work the same. Because this was how RNG slots in vegas also worked. He also said there is no system to win on slots. But there is things you could do to increase your odds of winning. But he didd not go into details about that. Probably has something to do with the cycles. Lower to minimum stake when its "cold" or even stopp playing for a periode of time. But i really wish there was more transparancy about these games. Casinos just says its a RNG and all, but clearly there is more to it.

Nice!! Finally hit it. Congrats

I see you are under everymatrix.. I have self excluded from some of these casinos and i have heard so many stories about other sites refusing to pay wins because a player self excluded on another site that has nothing to do with the site they won on other that it running on a EM platform. Before i sign up can you tell me if its safe to play since i am excluded at other EM sites? (Due to very poor returns)

So i found this 100+ pages long thread in a swedish forum where they question the randomness of slots. In this particular thread NetEnt slots. After allot of discussion back and forth a new member makes a post claiming to have worked as a slot programmer. He even made some claims about physical slots in sweden and the swedish lottery comission and such. I have scissored out the part about how he claims slots work, and to be true it kinda makes sence to me. I google translated it so english is so and so: More technically about slots: For simplicity, i write "virtual reels," or "virtual wheel". ALL slots have so-called virtual wheels, though it is of course just numbers and not wheels. But to paint a picture of how one or more spins work, so we call it the virtual wheel. Virtual wheel consists of a few hundred to several thousand or more, "trade" or "spots". Each virtual wheel MUST (according to the Control Board) contain one of each EXISTING ICON (also called "game elements"). These "original" symbols must never be removed before any spin. It is allowed for slots programmers to change all other positions (change the game symbols RNG'n can pick) on the virtual reels, between each spin if desired. So this is how to determine when you can win anything. Among all these, its CHANCE who chooses (RNG). Unfortunately, the above is a smokescreen, because what you gain in money, is still controlled by the symbols that are placed or removed from the virtual reels, and it is no coincidence, but time-driven. It is also illegal under the rules of the "Control Board" to hard-coding, ie, program the "near miss" results, that is, where you see that you "almost" could win a bonus round, or a large profit, etc. This, my friends, they solve through the free placement of gaming symbols on the virtual reels. Now I exaggerate the example below, just to show how it may look ... VR = Virtual wheels BR = Bonus Round Position 2 WR 1 WR WR WR 3 4 5 VR 7 BR BR cherry orange BR 8 BR BR BR cherry cherry 9 BR BR BR cherry cherry 10 BR BR BR cherry orange etc .... Now that the random number generator randomizing the position of each virtual wheel above, there is no combination that can create a bonus round. However, it will be created "near miss" results. Of course, in the example, so it requires three consecutive "FF" to get a bonus round, this slot! To simply explain, as simple as that can: 1) Before you hit the spin button placed game symbols on the virtual reels. Selection of games symbols is done using time (time management). Time steering choice of game symbols, location, number, in turn determined by what will go to win the money, simply put. 2) When you press the SPIN selects random number generator which of the existing symbols that will constitute the outcome of the game round. Timing and time, it is important to remember when playing on SLOTS !!! So im going to just sum it up here in better english. What he says is the lisence says that all symbols in the game must be on the virtual reel strip. But the games cycles on a timer trough the outcomes that the RNG can pick. Even do all symbols are there it can go trough a cycle where they basicly remove some symbols from the possible RNG picks. And he also says that its illigal to program near misses, but they solve this by the changing of symbols. DOA example: SC= Scatter Ree strippl 1 Ree strippl 2 Reel stripp 3 Reel stripp 4 Reel stripp 5 K Hat K K K SC SC K K K SC SC K K K SC SC K K K As you can see if this is the symbols the RNG can pick its impossible to get 3 scatters because the RNG doessent have the third scatter to pick. But you would get allot of "near misses". So the game might go 15 minutes or half an hour with "bad" reel strips then maybe go a short periode with "good" reel strips. If his claim is real then basicly when a slot goes cold there is no point in playing it. Simply wait until it heats up again. And also if this was somehow proven or it came out that slots really work this way i think i would never play again because even tough its "random" because you dont know how it cycles or when. But still its not truly random and in my opinion unfair.

I had played allot in this casino won on some other games the week before. I have lost allot on DOA since my last win, but i won from other games. My tip: Never chace anything on DOA. Cuz in the end we all lose.

I have played at Bitstarz not in bitcoin but in euro. They approved my documents instantley trough chat and they pay fast(Bank wire) Have not tested the bitcoin games, but the casino seams safe and fast paying.

Haha yes exactley. I cannot understand why they put Norway on there. As you say we usually get the regular terms. Maybe there are allot of DOA bonus abusers from Norway

Sorry. I tought 10000x was the bigges one.. Is there any biggger? Show me W W W W W W W W W W X X X X X I have given this combo allot of tought, And also why i have never seen it on any screenshots. There seams to be some buildt in mechanic in the game. To be honest i dont think the way the wilds land are random at all. Im pretty sure the game if its random, just picks an amount from 0 - the max win cap. Most likley there are only programed combinations that are avalible. Thats why we dont see the "dream" combos of wilds. On casinomeister there is one member who posted 160+ i think screenshots of wildlines he has gotten... Yes over 150...... I kinda doubt its all his own,but still 160 wildlines and i have never seen the combo above.

Im almost certain its not possible to get a full screen of wilds. If it where possible judging by the popularity of the game we would have seen one by now. Any casino that this happened at would use it as a marketing tool for all its worth. I think my 10 000x stake win is the biggest ever "recorded" win on this slot. I have only seen screens of 8800x and some 7000x but never above 10 000x And look at my screenshot i had 5 spins to get any of the last wilds but they didd not come, but i got several wilds behind the wilds above...

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