Wildz 12,000€ Bonus dispute

[Afi4wins]

7 minutes ago, jonnyveikko2006 said:

If it was never allowed, why did the system allow it, why did they approve my withdrawal, and why did they return only the €200 instead of keeping it all? That's not consistency – that's picking and choosing what suits them.

I'm going to explain just one more time:

A Bonus Buy, when there's an active bonus, is not allowed (it's a standard rule at every casino) - the system allowed it because the platform itself may not have been fully equipped to disallow it, or that the casino system was lacking (platforms usually do have setbacks and lackings).

Your approval was approved probably prematurely, until they realised later it was won from a Bonus Buy.

They returned your 200 EUR because that amount of bet was not allowed (which the system failed to disallow) and shouldn't be deducted from your balance in the first place, hence the refund. The 12000 EUR shouldn't have been won from a 200 EUR bet, hence the confiscation.

The casino is being honest by refunding back your 200 EUR. That's not picking and choosing as they like either.

 

[Blackjax]

1 minute ago, Afi4wins said:

I'm going to explain just one more time:

A Bonus Buy, when there's an active bonus, is not allowed (it's a standard rule at every casino) - the system allowed it because the platform itself may not have been fully equipped to disallow it, or that the casino system was lacking (platforms usually do have setbacks and lackings).

Your approval was approved probably prematurely, until they realised later it was won from a Bonus Buy.

They returned your 200 EUR because that amount of bet was not allowed (which the system failed to disallow) and shouldn't be deducted from your balance in the first place, hence the refund. The 12000 EUR shouldn't have been won from a 200 EUR bet, hence the confiscation.

The casino is being honest by refunding back your 200 EUR. That's not picking and choosing as they like either.

 

According to him a bonus buy is not a spin. 

The reels dont roll. Symbols don't appear on the screen. The balance just updates. 

[Afi4wins]

Just now, Blackjax said:

According to him a bonus buy is not a spin. 

He's wrong! It is one spin, so it is a spin! You make one spin, you get the scatters and you win the feature game - all in ONE SPIN!

[jonnyveikko2006]

2 hours ago, Afi4wins said:

I'm going to explain just one more time:

A Bonus Buy, when there's an active bonus, is not allowed (it's a standard rule at every casino) - the system allowed it because the platform itself may not have been fully equipped to disallow it, or that the casino system was lacking (platforms usually do have setbacks and lackings).

Your approval was approved probably prematurely, until they realised later it was won from a Bonus Buy.

They returned your 200 EUR because that amount of bet was not allowed (which the system failed to disallow) and shouldn't be deducted from your balance in the first place, hence the refund. The 12000 EUR shouldn't have been won from a 200 EUR bet, hence the confiscation.

The casino is being honest by refunding back your 200 EUR. That's not picking and choosing as they like either.

 

I get what you're saying, and I appreciate you taking the time to explain it. I understand that most casinos treat bonus buys as not allowed during active bonuses, and I'm not arguing that the rule doesn't exist.

The reason I'm still pushing is this:

The rule at the time said 'per spin.' Not 'per feature purchase.' Not 'per transaction.' That's what I agreed to. Wildz later changed the wording – and that's what bothers me.

If a rule needs to be changed to cover a situation, it means the original rule didn't clearly cover it. And if it didn't clearly cover it, how was I supposed to know it applied?

I respect your view, and I'm not expecting you to agree with me – just sharing why I see it differently. Thanks again for the input

[jonnyveikko2006]

2 hours ago, Afi4wins said:

He's wrong! It is one spin, so it is a spin! You make one spin, you get the scatters and you win the feature game - all in ONE SPIN!

I get what you're saying, the spin triggers the feature. But a feature purchase is still a direct buy-in, not a spin where reels roll and symbols land. The game interface itself showed 'Bet: €0.20' and 'Feature Price: €200' separately. If it was a spin, they would have displayed the total as a spin, not as two different values. That's the distinction.

[Blackjax]

3 minutes ago, jonnyveikko2006 said:

I get what you're saying, the spin triggers the feature. But a feature purchase is still a direct buy-in, not a spin where reels roll and symbols land. The game interface itself showed 'Bet: €0.20' and 'Feature Price: €200' separately. If it was a spin, they would have displayed the total as a spin, not as two different values. That's the distinction.

You didn't use the word "pushing" this time. 

[Flatzem888]

4 hours ago, Afi4wins said:

He's wrong! It is one spin, so it is a spin! You make one spin, you get the scatters and you win the feature game - all in ONE SPIN!

but that's not the players fault that the system allowed it , that's the casinos fault, that's like a bookmaker having an employee that accepted a large bet and the customer won on it and they can't then say oh we change our mind after the player has won their bet. if your system is accepting bets then you must honour them. full stop.

[jonnyveikko2006]

14 minutes ago, Flatzem888 said:

but that's not the players fault that the system allowed it , that's the casinos fault, that's like a bookmaker having an employee that accepted a large bet and the customer won on it and they can't then say oh we change our mind after the player has won their bet. if your system is accepting bets then you must honour them. full stop.

EXACTLY!!! 

[marius1978]

Just because the system allows it doesn't mean the casino is to be held accountable when someone exploits it, willingly or accidentally. It is the player's sole responsibility to read and to understand the rules and the T&C's, and I assume this is what eCOGRA too were referring to when dismissing the complaint.

Besides, any casino or bookie also have in their T&C's a protection against errors, be it human errors or flaws in their system, once again leaving the player powerless as this protection pretty much says: "We can do whatever the ***** we want if it pleases us or if you annoy us" 

Nitpicking about the wording in the very straightforward max bet rule surely puts the player at risk of ending in the "if you annoy us" category. 

[jonnyveikko2006]

12 minutes ago, marius1978 said:

Just because the system allows it doesn't mean the casino is to be held accountable when someone exploits it, willingly or accidentally. It is the player's sole responsibility to read and to understand the rules and the T&C's, and I assume this is what eCOGRA too were referring to when dismissing the complaint.

Besides, any casino or bookie also have in their T&C's a protection against errors, be it human errors or flaws in their system, once again leaving the player powerless as this protection pretty much says: "We can do whatever the ***** we want if it pleases us or if you annoy us" 

Nitpicking about the wording in the very straightforward max bet rule surely puts the player at risk of ending in the "if you annoy us" category. 

The law says unclear rules go against the person who wrote them. Wildz wrote 'per spin.' They only changed it after I complained. That's on them.

[Afi4wins]

1 hour ago, jonnyveikko2006 said:

The law says unclear rules go against the person who wrote them. Wildz wrote 'per spin.' They only changed it after I complained. That's on them.

@jonnyveikko2006 This argument will not end between you and us members.

File a complaint using the AGCCS facility and wait for a decision from them - hopefully in favour of you, but honestly speaking, I doubt it! I have explained why, you have also explained why, and so have other members, but none of us are qualified to give a conclusive decision.

So good luck!

[Blackjax]

8 hours ago, marius1978 said:

Just because the system allows it doesn't mean the casino is to be held accountable when someone exploits it, willingly or accidentally. It is the player's sole responsibility to read and to understand the rules and the T&C's, and I assume this is what eCOGRA too were referring to when dismissing the complaint.

Besides, any casino or bookie also have in their T&C's a protection against errors, be it human errors or flaws in their system, once again leaving the player powerless as this protection pretty much says: "We can do whatever the ***** we want if it pleases us or if you annoy us" 

Nitpicking about the wording in the very straightforward max bet rule surely puts the player at risk of ending in the "if you annoy us" category. 

The OP knows he doesn't have a case and is never going to get the €12000. I believe the plan is to harass the casino to a point that they offer him a settlement. The OP has posted the same topic on CM and CG. He is going all out to harass them.   Even if they offer €100 its still a win for the OP. 

 

[loceff13]

So to be clear is the 200eur they left with you wager free cash?

[jonnyveikko2006]

3 hours ago, loceff13 said:

So to be clear is the 200eur they left with you wager free cash?

Nope and after they returned it into my account, I didn’t touch it cause my case with ecogra was still pending. Now the money has disappeared…

[jonnyveikko2006]

12 hours ago, Afi4wins said:

@jonnyveikko2006 This argument will not end between you and us members.

File a complaint using the AGCCS facility and wait for a decision from them - hopefully in favour of you, but honestly speaking, I doubt it! I have explained why, you have also explained why, and so have other members, but none of us are qualified to give a conclusive decision.

So good luck!

Thanks, I appreciate your honesty and your time. I know we don't see it the same way – and that's fine. I've filed with AGCCS and will wait for their decision. Whatever happens, I'm grateful for the discussion and the different perspectives. Good luck to you too!

[jonnyveikko2006]

6 hours ago, Blackjax said:

The OP knows he doesn't have a case and is never going to get the €12000. I believe the plan is to harass the casino to a point that they offer him a settlement. The OP has posted the same topic on CM and CG. He is going all out to harass them.   Even if they offer €100 its still a win for the OP. 

 

Harassment isn't the goal – documenting my case is. If the evidence makes them uncomfortable, that's on them.

[Blackjax]

13 minutes ago, jonnyveikko2006 said:

Harassment isn't the goal – documenting my case is. If the evidence makes them uncomfortable, that's on them.

Your case happened in April. You went through ecogra and Mga. None of them ruled in your favor. Now its July end (almost August) and you are going on every gambling forum and posting the same thing. If harassment isnt the goal what exactly are you trying to achieve ? 

[jonnyveikko2006]

46 minutes ago, Blackjax said:

Your case happened in April. You went through ecogra and Mga. None of them ruled in your favor. Now its July end (almost August) and you are going on every gambling forum and posting the same thing. If harassment isnt the goal what exactly are you trying to achieve ? 

May 5 to July 3 – that's two months for a preliminary ruling. Then another few weeks for the final. I'm not harassing – I'm just not done yet. I’m not quite sure why this bothers you so much, do you work for wildz?

[Blackjax]

7 minutes ago, jonnyveikko2006 said:

I’m not quite sure why this bothers you so much, do you work for wildz?

Yes. I am the guy who activated the bonus round in your account. I had saved that round for myself but it accidentally went in your account. I lost money because of you. 

[jonnyveikko2006]

4 minutes ago, Blackjax said:

Yes. I am the guy who activated the bonus round in your account. I had saved that round for myself but it accidentally went in your account. I lost money because of you. 

Ha I knew there was something fishy about you.

[Blackjax]

8 minutes ago, jonnyveikko2006 said:

Ha I knew there was something fishy about you.

Not 'fishy' just 'Mental'. 

[jonnyveikko2006]

20 minutes ago, Blackjax said:

Not 'fishy' just 'Mental'. 

[Ultras34]

Be happy what they give you 200€ other casino will give you your deposit only 30€ ,had one time same scenario and got only my inicial deposit..you break a bonus rule none can help you forget about what you win..

[jonnyveikko2006]

2 hours ago, Ultras34 said:

Be happy what they give you 200€ other casino will give you your deposit only 30€ ,had one time same scenario and got only my inicial deposit..you break a bonus rule none can help you forget about what you win..

Also worth noting, the €200 they returned also disappeared. If they were being fair, they would have let me keep it.