Afi4wins

Last night I sent an email to the casino, complained about their illogical reasoning and refusal to refund my lost 25EUR bet, sent them a link to this topic, and finally requested for a permanent closure of my account. Several minutes later, they closed my account. Case closed.

What it all boils down to is that if you don't like or cannot accept the terms of the casino's Business Contract, then don't play at that casino. Go play somewhere else that has your acceptable terms, and good luck in finding one as well. Over the years, I have closed my accounts at hundreds of casinos, simply because I cannot accept their terms, or their level of customer services. You just need to see everything in the right perspectives and know where you stand, and what to do.

You're certainly one damn lucky player!!! But congrats anyway mate.

Some years ago, there was one or two such instances whereby the player was so dissatisfied with the outcome of his complaint to the casino and vowed to take the matter up to a Civil Court. Nothing more was ever heard from that person, nor on the outcome of the court case. Don't even know if the case was heard in the court or not. Personally, I think your argument is quite baseless, because you are using a Consumer Contract terms in your arguments, as opposed to a Business Contract terms that casinos use. There can NEVER be an individually negotiated contract done with casinos, because it is not a Services Contract, which would involve a client and a services provider, and the terms must first be negotiated and agreed upon. Anyway, good luck in whatever you choose to do next.

That's actually a CONFLICTING term! See the copied bonus terms above. Clause 25 states that if a bonus is accepted, no withdrawal is allowed because the deposited money is locked together with the bonus money. Clause 8, on the other hand, allows the deposited money to be withdrawn, which conflicts with clause 25, unless it means a withdrawal of the deposited money BEFORE playing, or AFTER the bonus has been cancelled.

Yes, definitely! I will kick their 's' and make them bite the dust very soon!

Clause 25 already states very clearly that your deposited money is locked with the accepted Bonus. Meaning, whatever winnings you may have accumulated are therefore also locked with the bonus. No two ways about that, the way I see it. As for the casino's decision being final, I cannot say much on that. The Business Contract may give them that right, but a Court Of Law may say otherwise. Save your money and try with an ADR first...no point wasting money on legal fees for such a 'small' sum in question.

Well, if you don't mind paying lots of money on the legal fees, then you can always take the matter to a Civil Court for proceedings.

This is the Bonus Terms at BitStarz Casino: 25. When accepting a deposit bonus, kindly remember that your deposit is locked with the accepted bonus. This means that you have two options, either to complete the wagering requirement of the bonus, or cancel the bonus. If you choose to cancel the bonus, the bonus and all winnings attributed to the bonus will be lost. Wagering with both the bonus money and your deposited cash will count towards the wagering requirement. 26. In the event of any dispute, the decision of BitStarz will be final.

And that is also why a lot of disputes with casinos need ADRs to resolve them, because it involves legalities and interpretations. Anyway, I'm not saying that you shouldn't get your winnings or deposits back, I cannot decide on that, so perhaps you do need an ADR to get it resolved for you. What looks like a simple interpretation of a Bonus Term can go either way in court.

I have just read that article...however, it's a UK Law, probably no longer an EU Law, but doesn't matter. The big question is...is playing at casinos considered a Consumers Contract or a Business Contract? Most, if not all, Business Contracts are designed to protect the businesses, unlike Consumers Contracts which are designed to protect cunsumers. The Contra Proferentum above is referring to a Consumers Contract.

What does the Bonus Terms at BitStarz like?

Here's a copy of Praise Casino's Bonus Terms: All the bonuses are non-sticky. It means, you cannot request your withdrawal until wagering requirements are fully fulfilled. Also, you start playing for real money first, then for bonus money, and as soon as bonus money is lost, the bonus also gets lost.

Are you sure that is correct? I mean, if the player is not well versed with legal terms or legality, does that mean the player's interpretation is the correct one? No way!

That's one of the ambiguities in their Bonus Terms that can lead to disputes and rejections. So, which is which?

That's exactly what I meant by different individual interpretations of Bonus Terms! When playing with a Sticky Bonus, any winnings made from playing with real cash can be withdrawn, but the Bonus money would be forfeited, but once the real money has been used up, the Bonus wagering terms come into play, except for wager-free bonuses. When playing with a Non-Sticky Bonus, even if you make a winning with your real money, you cannot withdraw that winnings because the Bonus terms have already been activated. Withdrawal is only possible after completion of the Bonus wagering requirement. Yes, there are Bonuses that cannot be withdrawn with the winnings, and there are also some Bonuses that can be included into the total winnings amount and can be withdrawn.

Sorry mate, but you got your bonus terms upside down there! Here's an example (not from BitStarz): All the bonuses are non-sticky. It means, you cannot request your withdrawal until wagering requirements are fully fulfilled. Also, you start playing for real money first, then for bonus money, and as soon as bonus money is lost, the bonus also gets lost.

Where gambling is concerned, all the Terms & Conditions for casinos to operate have been thoroughly scrutinised and written down to favour the casinos, never to favour the customers. The 'small' 3%-4% edge that initially casinos are given are really unsatisfactory to them, so many other ways are 'introduced' into their Terms & Conditions to improve their revenue returns. One of the ways happen to be how Bonus money can be used and should be used, but with many 'pit traps' to catch erroneous players and to confiscate their winnings. Everything is quite legal in the eyes of the law, but the terms are clearly seen as being quite unfair to customers in many respects. It is therefore very important for customers at casinos to read and understand all the stated Terms & Conditions and to make sure that no casino rules would be breached or broken. The truth is, not everyone can be well versed with terms and conditions, even if written in simple basic language, but terms are always written with lots of ambiguities to give casinos some extra edge. The terms can be interpreted in various ways, and that's where most disputes stay unresolved or lost.

Spirit123 must be an inexperienced slotter, because he/she wasn't sure how a bonus works. Maybe he/she had started playing, then realising that he/she wanted to cancel the bonus instead, maybe to play only with his real money, or perhaps to make a withdrawal of his winnings by then. Not enough info is given in his post, so we cannot know the real situation he/she was in. Most probably it was a non-sticky bonus that he/she took, so the wagering must be completed first before any winnings can be withdrawn. Or maybe he/she wanted to cancel the bonus after already started playing, but was informed by the casino that all his bonus money and winnings would be forfeited, possibly ending with a zero balance.

That's what people would call 'a big dream with a small budget'! If you want big wins, then of course you need to play with big bets, but honestly speaking, it's almost impossible to win many thousands of dollars on $1 or $2 bets, unless you win a Jackpot prize. High rollers want to win big all the time, so their bets are usually at least $10 a spin, up to $100 and more even! The filthy rich players may be playing with over $1000 bets per hand (table games), but slot games have a much lower allowed max bet size, usually up to $100, or less. If your budget is around $100, then you should be playing with 50 cents bets or less, or up to $1 per spin if you don't mind losing it all within minutes!

Pardon me, but that answer they gave you is an absurd answer! Real money is always played first, and when your real money has been used up, then only you start playing with the bonus money. A bonus can either be sticky or non-sticky. A sticky bonus : you can withdraw any winnings when playing with your real money (before you start using the bonus money) but the bonus money would then be forfeited. A non-sticky bonus : you must complete the full wagering requirement before you can withdraw any winnings (if you don't like this non-sticky bonus, then you must first cancel that bonus BEFORE you start playing, or that wagering would become active and you have to complete it).

I think you better include Mystake Casino into your black book too. I played at that blardy casino because you had played there and written a review on it...not that I'm blaming you mate!

The Live Chat host had referred the matter to the technical team but they refuted the error in their system, so refused to refund me back that 25EUR bet. I told them that I only play with very small bets, it can be seen from the bets history too (which they did), but insisted that they cannot refund me the money. What a BLARDY STUPID REASONING!!! Hope other players would seriously take note of this...do not assume that the Support Team would always help you out...they don't!

I would have continued playing MG games if they haven't stupidly removed selectable lines and autoplay functions...it's such a dread to click and click and click for one thing, it's even more dreadful for me that I no longer can play with lesser lines...so goodbye MG games for ever!

One bride went out of line...that's the second time so far...sigh.