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Do online casinos detect your strategies?


abilene

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Hi good evening fellas!

 

Recently I came across this conversation where it was being said that online casinos detect your strategies and make it difficult for you to win. In my opinion I don’t think so that is how it works. I believe while playing online or in a land based casino it’s the matter of your luck that also plays with you.

 

Is that so ?

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Hi good evening fellas!

 

Recently I came across this conversation where it was being said that online casinos detect your strategies and make it difficult for you to win. In my opinion I don’t think so that is how it works. I believe while playing online or in a land based casino it’s the matter of your luck that also plays with you.

 

Is that so ?

I think you win some and you lose some randomly. However yesterday i kinda felt that this specific online casino just took my money. Deposit $100, played 5 different slots from 2 different providers and i did not win anything really, could not trigger the free spins in each of the games, even a game like Grim Muerto 100 spins and no bonus game ( 2 scatterers even ). Cloud Quest alot of empty spins, Gonzo Quest, empty spins and i decided to stop playing. Lost $85 in about 20 minutes. and i placed minimum or $0.02 per line bets.

 

I felt its impossible for 5 games to be cruel to you at the same time.

 

So i think you are lucky or not, just because you sometimes loose all the time you might feel the casino it cheating you.

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Hi good evening fellas!

 

Recently I came across this conversation where it was being said that online casinos detect your strategies and make it difficult for you to win. In my opinion I don’t think so that is how it works. I believe while playing online or in a land based casino it’s the matter of your luck that also plays with you.

 

Is that so ?

 

H Abelene!  :hi:

 

So sorry to say this, but I know for a fact that all casinos keep track of players' game plays at their casinos. For fraud and collusion prevention is the most obvious reasons, for breaking the casino's rules is another, and managing the casino's cash flow is probably at the top of the list.

 

Any player who wins big amounts of money, gets their account and game plays a very thorough checking through. Whenever any player wins regularly and frequently on a few particular games, gets their game plays scrutinised for irregularities, including game play strategies used by the player. If casinos don't do this regularly, they may end up broke in no time at all!  :D

 

I have been a 'victim', so to speak, of such happenings. Regular old members here in Askgamblers know about case with Playtech games. I used to win regularly and frequently on 2 of my top favourite Playtech games, but since late 2015, all these are now just sweet memories for me. The games have been updated, upgraded, amended, or whatever term you would like to call it, so much so that I can no longer win on those 2 games! They don't play like they used to anymore.  :p

 

I've had many friends who share this same opinion. Their favourite games suddenly changed its traits. The betting limits underwent changes, what used to come quite easily suddenly became much harder to get, big wins became more elusive, and many more instances like that.

 

No doubt we players can never get to prove this, but serious players like me, we do scrutinise back our game plays for such changes. When your favourite game no longer plays like you know it and used to it, then it is highly probable that the casino's team had scrutinised your gameplays, your strategies, your style of betting, and whatnots, and had done something to change it!   ^_^

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Wow Afi4wins... I'm amazed that you believe this. I accept that the slot providers do probably change their games from time to time for one reason or another but I don't think it can possibly be based on any one particular players results at a single casino. If a game has a flaw in it that a player manages to exploit then of course it will be fixed, but your not suggesting that is what happened with your favourite Playtech slots are you...?...

 

I've always understood that casinos have zero control over the games they offer, and that's why games disappear from some casinos now and again when their operators get a little panic'y about the results that game has been producing. If I'm wrong about this then my whole viewpoint on on-line gambling needs to change significantly... and I don't know if I could continue playing at that point!

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Well Raverbabe...what I went through with my 2 top favourite Playtech casinos in 2015 was beyond belief. It wasn't the casino that put a big blunt stop to my winnings progress, it came from Playtech itself! They tried stopping me by disallowing me from taking any sort of bonus at all, not even 25% deposit bonus if I had wanted to, which I wouldn't anyway. After 3 unsuccessful attempts at curbing my winnings, I was then totally banned from all bonuses! I then closed my accounts!

 

After this incident, the same games no longer play and pay as before. I tried at more than 6 other Playtech casinos where my accounts were still active, at varying times and months, but all giving me the same blardy low return of not more than 40%! This is simply not a coincidence! Not on the games that I have come to know so well and have been winning for 3 straight years in a row!

 

Say what you like, think what you like...but no one else can know better than I myself...just that I cannot ever prove this blardy unethical practise!  :angry:

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I remember my boyfriend having a similar Playtech issue, I believe it was at "Slots Heaven" where they told him he was bonus banned across the Playtech network... though it definitely didn't apply to casino's like Corals and Paddy Power who seem to be more autonomous. I don't know if he ever got it resolved but I think he had also apparently been "too lucky" !

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I kinda noticed something as well. The slot " Lucky Angler" - I play this slot on quick spin and trigger the bonus all the time and won huge during free spins, always get 3 fishes.

 

Bu the slow changed now. The whole interface looks new and is updated and the reels spin extremely slow on quick spin. I am not sure why the change but i noticed it after i made a few big hits on that game on videoslots and red bet. i Uploaded 2 videos below for the comparison.

 

So see how often you win on quick spin on the Lucky Angler Old QuickSpin - Fast

 

 

 

 

 

See how little you win on the Lucky Angler New QuickSpin - Slow

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I disagree that casino detects your strategies. Their are thousands of players that are playing at an online casino and not all of them use the same strategies over and over again. What an online casino detects is the amount of winnings you made. Every winnings are even recorded for their own use.

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I disagree that casino detects your strategies. Their are thousands of players that are playing at an online casino and not all of them use the same strategies over and over again. What an online casino detects is the amount of winnings you made. Every winnings are even recorded for their own use.

 

Casinos do not track their players for no reasons...unless it's a player who wins 7 out of 10 times every time he plays!

Even so, this isn't critical to them as yet, until it drags and drags on for months, with the player winning every time and the casino losing out.

Then they report it back to the game provider!

 

It is NOT THE CASINO that do what needs to be done...it is the GAME PROVIDER themselves...

because any amendments to any game needs prior approval from the Licensing Authority...

WITHOUT CHANGING OR AFFECTING THE PREDETERMINED RTP!!!

 

For those in the know...changing the configurations of the gameplay does not necessarily change the RTP.

It only affects how the RNG works and produces the required results!

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  • 4 weeks later...

I disagree that casino detects your strategies. Their are thousands of players that are playing at an online casino and not all of them use the same strategies over and over again. What an online casino detects is the amount of winnings you made. Every winnings are even recorded for their own use.

 

Well this all makes sense. If people are winning every time casinos will be with 0 balance.

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Casinos do not track their players for no reasons...unless it's a player who wins 7 out of 10 times every time he plays!

Even so, this isn't critical to them as yet, until it drags and drags on for months, with the player winning every time and the casino losing out.

Then they report it back to the game provider!

 

It is NOT THE CASINO that do what needs to be done...it is the GAME PROVIDER themselves...

because any amendments to any game needs prior approval from the Licensing Authority...

WITHOUT CHANGING OR AFFECTING THE PREDETERMINED RTP!!!

 

For those in the know...changing the configurations of the gameplay does not necessarily change the RTP.

It only affects how the RNG works and produces the required results!

 

So what "change of gameplay configuration" might be implemented - can you give an example? And why do you think it would have any effect on the RNG?

 

To the best of my knowledge games do not have their own RNG, they simply send a request for a number perhaps from a specific range and then use the returned value to create a result. 

 

Any change made to a slot that affects the chances of winning would surely have an effect on the games RTP and any such change would have to be advertised somewhere - it's the law here in the UK now that every game must advertise it's tRTP somewhere.

 

The Lucky Angler videos above just don't mean anything when watched in isolation. Sure, the game may possibly have been updated at some point for one reason or another but the results of two bonus rounds just don't tell you anything that could indicate a change in potential winnings. This is all tin foil hat talk to me!

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I feel we underestimate the huge number of players playing at any one time - the vast majority of whom will lose money consistently. Look at the competitions at a site like Casumo. Sometimes you get many hundreds of players playing just one game simulateously. This must mean that a well-established casino has over all games, several thousand players all playing at once. The casinos know their algorithms and that at the end of most likely every day there will be more money in their bank account than at the beginning. As previously mentioned by Afi4wins it can only be the GAME PROVIDER that can change the games -  all the casinos can do is walk away from hosting games - but surely the casinos are guaranteed overall ROIs by the providers, so surely this is not a problem for them. 

 

What happens if someone here wins a $2 mio jackpot - would they then be barred from that casino for life - surely not as the casino would know the liklihood that a good proportion of the jackpot would be ploughed back in in terms of further larger bets.

 

Maybe the casinos have a small possibility to marginally "tweak" games within parameters granted to them by providers - but all that would mean is that word would spread and that players would all move to the most lucrative venues.

 

My overall feeling is that the casinos are mainly involved with marketing to new clients, and to maximising the amounts that current clients play. If the ROI stay constant, the the higher the turnover the better - and surely it is no diffference whether one player wins $ 100.000 or 100 players win  $ 1.000 

 

It is the nature of the business that players cannot stop playing, and that losses get chased and chased, and that winnings get ploughed straight back in. We all try here to play according to our own personal rules, but even if we have success some of the time, we are in any case just a drop in the ocean compared to the mass of players , mainly novice players, who get constantly more and more out of their depth.  

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So what "change of gameplay configuration" might be implemented - can you give an example? And why do you think it would have any effect on the RNG?

 

To the best of my knowledge games do not have their own RNG, they simply send a request for a number perhaps from a specific range and then use the returned value to create a result. 

 

Any change made to a slot that affects the chances of winning would surely have an effect on the games RTP and any such change would have to be advertised somewhere - it's the law here in the UK now that every game must advertise it's tRTP somewhere.

 

The Lucky Angler videos above just don't mean anything when watched in isolation. Sure, the game may possibly have been updated at some point for one reason or another but the results of two bonus rounds just don't tell you anything that could indicate a change in potential winnings. This is all tin foil hat talk to me!

 

Let me try and put this in the simplest way for all to understand...

 

 

Let's say the game being played computes a due win of 10x bet amount in the next spin...

 

The set of installed instructions have various possibilities and alternatives of paying out a 10x total bet win...

For example, from any 3-of-a-kind, 4-of-a-kind, 5-of-a-kind win at any bet size; or from any mix combination win;

The RNG then randomly picks one of the numerous possibilities to produce that 10x bet win.

 

Now, if the set of instructions are then changed to, let's say, pick from any win with small bet size only...

The RNG still has numerous possibilities to produce a 10x bet win, WITHOUT ALTERING THE PRESET RTP!

 

The same changes can be applied to any set of paying instructions, let's say for free spins wins...

 

Let's say the original set of instructions reads like this - Free Spins game to be activated randomly at all bet sizes, at preset *%* on *$* bet sizes... 

is then changed to - Free Spins game to be activated randomly at *+%%* at small bet sizes; *+%* at medium bet sizes; at *-%* at high bet sizes...

the free spins would then come more frequently at small bet sizes and very much reduced at high bet sizes!

 

That was what happened with my plays on Mr cashback in 2015. The Free Spins were only coming when I played with small bets. Couldn't even get 1 Free Spins game with bets higher than $3.00 per spin! And that caused a huge loss for me over the months!  :angry:

 

 See the difference what a slight simple change in the game's set of instructions/configurations can do?!!!  <_<

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Let me try and put this in the simplest way for all to understand...

 

 

Let's say the game being played computes a due win of 10x bet amount in the next spin...

 

The set of installed instructions have various possibilities and alternatives of paying out a 10x total bet win...

For example, from any 3-of-a-kind, 4-of-a-kind, 5-of-a-kind win at any bet size; or from any mix combination win;

The RNG then randomly picks one of the numerous possibilities to produce that 10x bet win.

 

Now, if the set of instructions are then changed to, let's say, pick from any win with small bet size only...

The RNG still has numerous possibilities to produce a 10x bet win, WITHOUT ALTERING THE PRESET RTP!

 

The same changes can be applied to any set of paying instructions, let's say for free spins wins...

 

Let's say the original set of instructions reads like this - Free Spins game to be activated randomly at all bet sizes, at preset *%* on *$* bet sizes... 

is then changed to - Free Spins game to be activated randomly at *+%%* at small bet sizes; *+%* at medium bet sizes; at *-%* at high bet sizes...

the free spins would then come more frequently at small bet sizes and very much reduced at high bet sizes!

 

That was what happened with my plays on Mr cashback in 2015. The Free Spins were only coming when I played with small bets. Couldn't even get 1 Free Spins game with bets higher than $3.00 per spin! And that caused a huge loss for me over the months!  :angry:

 

 See the difference what a slight simple change in the game's set of instructions/configurations can do?!!!  <_<

 

Sure that seems like a reasonable scenario that a game provider might incorporate in a game - i.e. bias the number of large wins AWAY from high stakes players. I would have no idea though wheher this would be standard practice industry-wide -  we would need either provider side specific input to confirm this or at least empirical evidence from some really high-stakes players. If I go to a bricks and mortar casino and play Blackjack for instance at the house limit - I would have the same odds as the guy playing for $ 10 next to me - and would probably even be invited to play at a special "no limits" table and plastered with free drinks and entertainment - the casino knowing of course that whatever I win all would flow back with time...

 

Do you really think though that the bias on games can vary from player to player?  

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Sure that seems like a reasonable scenario that a game provider might incorporate in a game - i.e. bias the number of large wins AWAY from high stakes players. I would have no idea though wheher this would be standard practice industry-wide -  we would need either provider side specific input to confirm this or at least empirical evidence from some really high-stakes players. If I go to a bricks and mortar casino and play Blackjack for instance at the house limit - I would have the same odds as the guy playing for $ 10 next to me - and would probably even be invited to play at a special "no limits" table and plastered with free drinks and entertainment - the casino knowing of course that whatever I win all would flow back with time...

 

Do you really think though that the bias on games can vary from player to player?  

 

Honestly speaking Darg, NO SOFTWARE PROVIDER would ever confirm to this, because of their Trade Secrets Act.

 

We players can only assume...which is dangerous of course...but only knowledgeable players could assume quite logically, but that assumption being true or not is highly debatable, so no one can be really sure.

 

Licensed Casinos do not do such things, as far as I know, unless the casinos are rogue ones, or are illegal non-casino establishments.

 

Yes, I know that such 'bias' can be limited to only one person, to one account, or multiple accounts, or whatever...as deemed necessary, because all account details are kept with the provider, and only they can make any changes as deemed necessary. Casinos do not have this exception.

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Honestly speaking Darg, NO SOFTWARE PROVIDER would ever confirm to this, because of their Trade Secrets Act.

 

We players can only assume...which is dangerous of course...but only knowledgeable players could assume quite logically, but that assumption being true or not is highly debatable, so no one can be really sure.

 

Licensed Casinos do not do such things, as far as I know, unless the casinos are rogue ones, or are illegal non-casino establishments.

 

Yes, I know that such 'bias' can be limited to only one person, to one account, or multiple accounts, or whatever...as deemed necessary, because all account details are kept with the provider, and only they can make any changes as deemed necessary. Casinos do not have this exception.

 

mmm so that means a players details and not kept with the casino but are "passed" on to the game providers? Who then consolidate that player from all their accounts at different casinos - some of which may have been made with varying email-addresses?  What about Data Protection ?  

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mmm so that means a players details and not kept with the casino but are "passed" on to the game providers? Who then consolidate that player from all their accounts at different casinos - some of which may have been made with varying email-addresses?  What about Data Protection ?  

 

Good question Darg.  ^_^

 

Let me tell of another example, a true one of course, my own personal experience too.

 

Many years ago, I was hunting for free bonuses from just about every casino I could lay my hands on. Not surprising. I was never the only one doing this. At several Playtech casinos, I had opened multiple accounts, under different names, different email addresses, different IDs. After a while, the casinos became aware of my multiple accounts and locked them up. At other casinos that hadn't yet became aware, it remained opened. Word finally got to Playtech, and all my accounts under that same group of casinos got locked up simultaneously, and permanently!

 

But I was smart enough not to make that stupid mistake at my favourite casinos, so they never got locked up.

 

So, it is apparent that a player's details are kept at BOTH game provider's and casino's servers, some for a predetermined period of years, others for an indefinite period of time. More than 15 years later, my locked accounts at some specific casinos are still permanently locked till this day!

 

Data Protection applies to both providers and casinos, but they can exchange details and information between them, but never to any other third party, without a court consent.

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Let me try and put this in the simplest way for all to understand...

 

 

Let's say the game being played computes a due win of 10x bet amount in the next spin...

 

The set of installed instructions have various possibilities and alternatives of paying out a 10x total bet win...

For example, from any 3-of-a-kind, 4-of-a-kind, 5-of-a-kind win at any bet size; or from any mix combination win;

The RNG then randomly picks one of the numerous possibilities to produce that 10x bet win.

 

But what evidence do we have that the games work that way in the first place? I'd say it's more likely the game picks a reel stop location for each of 1 to 5, lets say (10/76), (44/78), (3/81), (80/85), (15/90) and then looks up those stop positions in the payout table to tell the game what prize to award. Even less hassle would be just to choose a number between 1 and X, X being the total number of possible combinations of the reels and that particular row in the paytable determines the stop positions of the reels.

I think this because if the game were to decide as in your example, give me a win of 10x the stake.. what's to say there even will be a combination that pays exactly 10x the stake? Okay, it's quite likely with a low number such as 10 but what about 437x, say, if the games max pay is 500x... And do we guess things like 207.17x stake and then go off to look if there might be a matching win then keep picking random numberes until we find a match? and even if there are matching wins you then need to get a second random number to decide which of those hits will be awarded. It just seems like a real long way around when thinking logically the prize is determined by the reel stop positions and not the other way around. A whole bunch of unnecessary steps.

 

I see what you mean though about some changes to the logic of determining how a win is awarded could affect your chances of a decent hit however if your overall chance of hitting a jackpot is lower via any manipulation of the rules then that would still have an effect on the games RTP, and compensating for that difference exactly would surely not be straightforward.

 

Perhaps we'll get some source code leaked one day that could help us understand things a little more!

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Hahaha...Amy...you are thinking about mechanical slots that work on wheels!!!  :D

 

This is the age of ultra modern technology! There are no reels in a slot game. There are no rows in a slot game. There are no wheels either. What you see on the screen is only to enable your mind, my mind, and all our minds to 'see' and 'understand' what is happening with all the multitude of calculations done!

 

Would you understand if the screen shows an equated answer...without any illustrations, without any pictures or icons? None of us would!

 

Not only that, who would want to see a series of blardy numbers that makes no sense at all, right?!

 

And what you see 'spinning of the reels' AREN'T SPINNING AT ALL!!! It's only a simulation of the reels spinning, something that all of us are accustomed to, and can understand! Those pictures you see do not go round and round...or from up to down. It's all an OPTICAL ILLUSION!!!  ^_^

 

A million calculations per second is practically peanuts to any computer! They are doing billions and trillions of calculations every second!!! That's why we find it very hard to accept things that go beyond what our minds are accustomed to!

 

And that includes other things in life that we cannot see nor comprehend! Don't ever think they cannot ever exists!!!  :p

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But what evidence do we have that the games work that way in the first place? I'd say it's more likely the game picks a reel stop location for each of 1 to 5, lets say (10/76), (44/78), (3/81), (80/85), (15/90) and then looks up those stop positions in the payout table to tell the game what prize to award. Even less hassle would be just to choose a number between 1 and X, X being the total number of possible combinations of the reels and that particular row in the paytable determines the stop positions of the reels.

I think this because if the game were to decide as in your example, give me a win of 10x the stake.. what's to say there even will be a combination that pays exactly 10x the stake? Okay, it's quite likely with a low number such as 10 but what about 437x, say, if the games max pay is 500x... And do we guess things like 207.17x stake and then go off to look if there might be a matching win then keep picking random numberes until we find a match? and even if there are matching wins you then need to get a second random number to decide which of those hits will be awarded. It just seems like a real long way around when thinking logically the prize is determined by the reel stop positions and not the other way around. A whole bunch of unnecessary steps.

 

I see what you mean though about some changes to the logic of determining how a win is awarded could affect your chances of a decent hit however if your overall chance of hitting a jackpot is lower via any manipulation of the rules then that would still have an effect on the games RTP, and compensating for that difference exactly would surely not be straightforward.

 

Perhaps we'll get some source code leaked one day that could help us understand things a little more!

 

Game programmers and game coders are never allowed to reveal any of their specific programming work. They may face prosecution charges from the Provider. I'm not sure if they can even give an indirect example to show how the entire programming is done. So we may never get to see such evidences from the right people...unless someone dares to take the risk.

 

I'm sorry if I had offended you by laughing at your earlier 'reel stops' comments. I don't mean to laugh at you. It is a common thing to 'picture' things as how our brains are used to assimilate, and our brains 'see' slot games as being on reels or wheels, as it was before. That's a long step backwards, and that was funny to me.  ;)

 

About that 10x bet win thing. Do you realise that any wins that you may get in a slot game are NEVER EXACT, except for very small wins which are much easier to come to a rounded number win? It is never exactly 500x your bet amount. It is never exactly 1000x your bet amount either. Because it may be impossible to get those exact wins due to the limited 'icons' possibilities which are again limited by the many variables in the game play, such as the number of lines being played and the sizes of bets. What the RNG does is to produce a win as near as possible to the *%* or *$* equated.

 

At certain times, the equation may produce one possible exact win combination...and you'll get this same exact win repeated a few times over the years. I've got a few identical wins on my Playtech games before, on Dolphin Reef for one example, where every icon lands in the exact same position on the reels and rows, but with differing bet sizes. And I've also seen this being repeated on other non-Playtech games too.

 

Amy, the winning ways can be changed in as many ways as necessary, without altering the RTP, because the RTP is not based on any one person's game. It is based on the overall game in its entirety, within a minimum of 1 million spins or more, which the RNG would not have any problems at all in recalculating and maintaining the preset %.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Laugh away Afi4wins, as you said game developers don't release precise details which makes it impossible for any of us to say many things with absolute certainty. That said, what makes you think that no on-line slots use fixed reel strips ...? Sure there are a few that don't, I believe games such as Gonzo's with cascading symbols might potentially just drop symbols in at random however the vast majority of games do infact have fixed strips and the RTP of a game can be calculated directly from the content of the strips... or at least the base game RTP can anyway.

 

Don't believe me? Take a look here: http://www.slotbeaters.com/Index.htm#Stats the guys on this site have spent long hours mapping the reel strips of a bunch of popular games. 

 

One reason why Immortal Romance is dramatically higher variance than Thunderstruck 2 is the reel strip layouts - the wilds in IR are positioned adjacent to the top paying character symbols whereas in TS2 only royal symbols can be visible at the same time as a wild on a particular reel.

 

Maybe I've misunderstood you anyway, what I'm saying about the reels "spinning" wasn't meant literally, the computer simply picks a stop position, maybe 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 for all five reels then there is a specific win attached to that outcome, another for 1,1,1,1,2 and so forth and so forth... millions of different outcomes that can all be stored in a big database table and awarded the second the button is pressed. It seems to be the simplest way of choosing a result is by creating those five stop positions then looking in the table for the result of that specific combination. As I understood it you were suggesting an alternative method of choosing a win figure, looking in the database for all wins of that specific size, then choosing one of those at random ? And that just didn't seem logical to me is all as you'd need multiple database lookups and multiple stages of random number generation instead of just one elegant line of code. But for sure, it's possible some developers program that way for some reason!

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Fair enough Amy. What you have said above may indeed be all true, and I can accept all that.

 

Anyway, I ain't perfect!  :D

Some things I say may be wrong, some things I say may be true...but what the heck...we all believe in what we think is right and we reject what we think is wrong...nobody's right all the way, right? ;)  

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Good day everyone. I need to know if it's unusual for you to see what you have won before your spin is finished. I have been playing on playtech and I can see my balance increase before my spin is finished. I meen if it's random every spin how does the playtech software know how much you won when your spin is not finished. Can anyone please help me understand?

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Good day everyone. I need to know if it's unusual for you to see what you have won before your spin is finished. I have been playing on playtech and I can see my balance increase before my spin is finished. I meen if it's random every spin how does the playtech software know how much you won when your spin is not finished. Can anyone please help me understand?

 

Hi Vandykannelize, welcome to Askgamblers.

 

The reason is actually very simple.

 

The microsecond you click on the start button, the result of that spin has already been calculated even before you can blink your eye! Yes, it is that fast! What you see 'spinning on the reels' is just a representation of the calculated result, in graphical images, a form that can be easily recognised by our brains. The actual calculated results are all in digital form, like what you see in the movie 'The Matrix'. Nobody wants to see that kind of results on the screen whilst playing a slot game, so graphical images are used instead, to relate everything back to the original mechanical slot machines of over 1 century ago!

 

Why you can see the results earlier when 'the reels are still spinning' is simply because of delayed or slowed internet connection in presenting the images. At normal connection speed, you won't see this happening. There is nothing unusual about it at all!

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