How do casinos recognise gambling problem and how do they react?

[Luciana]

Hi darlings 

 

Hope nobody of you never had this experience nor ever will, but I'm curious to hear your opinion or knowledge, about the situation when online casino detects that a particular player has a gambling problem.

Does casino react then, in order to help that player? 

 

I remember there was a complaint posted on AskGamblers where player was desperate, he was complaining about his account, but actually the situation was that casino locked it and referred a player to seek for help in some UK online clinic. 

On the other hand, there are casinos that don't react, until the player itself requires a self-exclusion or account lock.

 

What's your knowledge about this? Do casinos on their hand evaluate if a player has a problem or wait for him/her to act (so they can react)?

If some of them do it initially, what do you think, how do they notice an addiction? If player has big deposits and big losses, it doesn't automatically means he has a problem?

[luckyloser]

To be honest in my opinion some casinos or most i would say take advantage of this. They let you go on tilt and just watch how you lose and lose. Depositing more and bigger amounts should set of alarm bells with them, but some even encurage with bonus offers.

 

Its werid to because it seams to me once you start losing and betting hard/depositing big amounts and many deposits in one day at a casino its like they flipp the "you can not win anything" switch.

 

To be honest i have a gambling problem and i have sought help for this now. But i do sinscerly belive casinos can alter payouts for individual players. Its not uncommon for me atleats when i lose at a casino and go on "tilt" deposit after deposit i have insane streaks that seam unreal.

 

Fore instance losing over 500 euros on DOA on 0.90 bets and no bonus round. 1500+ spins pluss and no bonus round on Immortal romance all in the same day at the same casino. And they keep telling me its bad luck? No way! Even after i go on chat and ***** and moan about my losses and such, they dont tell me to take a break. They even offer deposit bonuses and such... Other casinos would atleast offered a No deposit bonus, but they want me to deposit more. When my usual deposits are 100 euros and i suddenly start to deposit 300,500 and so on in the same day they should react.

 

This is even a casino that askgamblers rates as a "top" casino.

 

And its not only them its most casinos. Ofcourse im responcible for my own actions but casinos should also pay attention to how people behave and deposit. They have a responsipility but most seam only to care about the almighty dollar.

[Luciana]

Thank you for your great and sincere post, luckyloser I appreciate it, really.

So, generally, casinos just ignore when someone loses money, all until the player seek for the help for him/herself.

 

 

But, what do you think, what happens when someone is winning a lot or constantly? Does casino, in that case, finds the way to expel you or something? 

[Awena]

Thank you for your great and sincere post, luckyloser I appreciate it, really.

So, generally, casinos just ignore when someone loses money, all until the player seek for the help for him/herself.

 

 

But, what do you think, what happens when someone is winning a lot or constantly? Does casino, in that case, finds the way to expel you or something? 

Yes Luciana, good question, Afi had to good winning streak at Omni and Fly Casino and all of a sudden they decided to restrict him of claiming bonuses and as far I remember he mentioned that at Fly Casino he is platinum VIP, so now you can get a closer  look how do they treat their players.  

[Luciana]

Hmmmm, I am curious to know more about it! Thanks for bringing it to the attention, Awena

 

Afiiiii, tell us more!

(sorry if you already did, I missed it )

[Adebisi213]

Hi darlings 

 

Hope nobody of you never had this experience nor ever will, but I'm curious to hear your opinion or knowledge, about the situation when online casino detects that a particular player has a gambling problem.

Does casino react then, in order to help that player? 

 

I remember there was a complaint posted on AskGamblers where player was desperate, he was complaining about his account, but actually the situation was that casino locked it and referred a player to seek for help in some UK online clinic. 

On the other hand, there are casinos that don't react, until the player itself requires a self-exclusion or account lock.

 

What's your knowledge about this? Do casinos on their hand evaluate if a player has a problem or wait for him/her to act (so they can react)?

If some of them do it initially, what do you think, how do they notice an addiction? If player has big deposits and big losses, it doesn't automatically means he has a problem?

This is a very interesting point you raised. I know online casinos have their security systems in place to monitor players' playing patterns or to detect whether a player betted more than the WR allows. Most of these systems are designed to protect the casinos.

 

Do casinos pro-actively try to detect and help problematic gamblers? You could argue that they offer deposit limits, self-exclusion and some additional measures for the players to reduce their play, but I never heard of an online casino telling a player to stop playing because he lost or deposited too much. It's clearly a conflict in interest and it will hurt their revenue to tell a player to do so.

 

And besides, online casinos are not aware of the financial situation of the player in question. Maybe it's a problem gambler or maybe the player got just a lot of money to spend?

 

So bottom line is I truly believe the player is very much on his own when it comes to controlling his gambling behaviour online as long it remains an unregulated sector. At land-based casinos it's a different story. There I actually have seen people getting approached by the pitboss to have a talk.

 

The only way to closely monitor this is to have regulated environment with a national database where every deposit gets tracked. In Holland they plan to do this once the market gets regulated. Problematic gamblers will be placed on some type of blacklist, which means they won't be able to access any other online casino while they on it.

 

Not sure how it all will work eventually, but I think those measures are the right way to go forward.

[Luciana]

Great speech and conclusion, Adebisi! You nailed it

 

But, on the other hand, do they find a way to "punish" or get rid of the player(s) who win too much for their taste?

[TheProphet]

I agree with some of the posters that most casinos take advantage of problem gamblers as they are considered the "low hanging fruits".  That said, I have seen a few of the big named UK sportsbooks whom I promote lock out players for suspicion of problem gambling.  Exactly how they deem a player as so mystifies me.  Perhaps it's his pattern of deposits and activities?

[ValDes]

In my humble opinion, it is not just black and white when it comes to a serious subject like the aforementioned one. Simply because when we discuss this matter, we need to consider that it concerns in fact three different subjects - player, casino and of course, licensing authority. And it is definitely not fair to put all the blame (if any) only on one or another of these subjects, because fighting with problem gambling should definitely be a process of cumulative efforts from all the three of them. At least this is how I imagine it should be in a perfect world...

 

How casinos recognize it?

 

As a member of the Complaints Team in AskGamblers, I'm dealing with such cases (concerning problem gamblers) on a regular basis and learned a lot in the last couple of years about various internal procedures and checks used by casinos to identify and deal with such customers. Wish I could comment more on the 'inside' procedures, however I am not allowed to talk about that (as per our complaints terms and conditions concerning non-disclosure of complaints related information), so hope you understand. What I know for sure though and could confirm is that every decent online casino operator is using such internal checks or flags to determine a possible problem gambler. Such flags could be triggered after an unusual deposit density, a sudden and significant raise of the average deposit amount, a drastic change of the ratio between the number of deposits made over a predefined period of time, a comparison between the used deposit methods and average deposit amount, various comparisons based on player's country of residence  and average deposit amount for that country players, etc, etc... I could assure you that casino people are taking this matter very seriously and I really meant it. Ten years ago you could easily deposit 10000+ in an online casino without any problem. But if you try to do that now you will be surprised to know that most online casinos would actually not allow you to do that. At least not before you confirm with them you are not a problem gambler and sometimes you will be required to do that in written. And this is just part of all measures taken by casinos to protect players. Must mention the huge role (in a positive aspect) in improving these measures, requested and applied due to the special provisions of most reputable licensing authorities though. 

 

How casinos react?

 

Wish I could say online casinos were ruthless once a problem gambler was duly identified and determined as such...but they are not.  Or at least not as much as I think they should be when it comes to players protection. I've seen dozens of operators (some even considered as reputable ) to reopen player accounts, which were previously identified as problem gamblers using the ridiculous excuse "Player did not requested self-exclusion, but just an account closure". I've seen bad casino operators reopening even accounts under self-exclusion agreement only to take player deposits and to close again the account if a withdrawal is being requested... However, most decent casinos will offer you a self-exclusion period, cool-off period or setting a deposit limit. Some will even go a step further and once player confirms a problem gambling his account is being closed immediately and reopened after a predefined period of time and only after a confirmation in written. Recently, some really reputable online operators are referring such problem gamblers directly to their licensing authority and recommend them using a self-exclusion option from all casinos licensed by that authority. A good example is Malta Gaming Authority and its self-barring request form (http://www.mga.org.mt/wp/wp-content/uploads/SELF-BARRING-REQUEST.pdf).  

 

Do the casinos and the licensing authority take all the necessary measures to protect and help problem gamblers?

 

Maybe they do, some are really trying hard, but definitely not enough. Otherwise we wouldn't see so many problem gamblers going deeper and deeper into the grey zone, neither so many players reporting serious issues concerning account closures and self-exclusions on a regular basis.

 

What do the national governments?  

 

Nothing! Except scratching their tongue with one hand, moaning how bad is problem gambling and how serious could be its social consequences and taking (gladly) with the other one the huge money coming from both land based and online gambling. Sad but true...

 

What holds the future?

 

Drastic changes and improvements I hope! Players definitely deserve to be protected as much as possible, because everyone could become a problem gambler one day.  

[Luciana]

Wow, impressive and comprehensive, as always!!

Thanks for sharing, Guru!

 

What about "winning too much"?

[Afi4wins]

Wow, impressive and comprehensive, as always!!

Thanks for sharing, Guru!

 

What about "winning too much"?

 

What about winning too much?

 

Geeees! I have been politely informed by a few casinos before (Playtech) that they will be closing my account because I had won more than 10K from their casino in just 2 - 3 months!

 

The latest is, as you all already know, the steps taken by Omni and Fly Casino in removing and restricting all my deposit bonus perks for the time being, just because I was winning more and more from the two casinos, citing the excuse that my total deposits so far very much exceeded their deposit:bonus ratio of 1:2. I think this is kind of rubbish! A very high deposit:bonus ratio would mean that I'm getting more than 200% bonuses for all my deposits! No such thing! Omni and Fly Casino bonuses are usually maxed at 150%, only on very special occasions would 200% deposit bonuses be offered out to selected players. How I managed to exceed this 200% amount is beyond my understanding!

 

The way I see it, it's just a very polite way of restricting my winnings by removing all deposit bonuses for me, because I make my winnings from all those bonuses! Hahahaha.

 

Whether I stay on or move out from the 2 casinos, they make it look that it will be on my own decision...not them locking me out!

Discreet and subtle management on the casino side. Hurting but not kicking my butt at the same time!   

 

If you're winning way too much too soon from any casino, be prepared to get locked out or kicked out!

[ValDes]

Was hoping that Afi will respond to Jelena's last question as he's the one that could provide valuable information from his own experience and here we go, he did it!  And I think he is totally right! Unfortunately...  

[Afi4wins]

Was hoping that Afi will respond to Jelena's last question as he's the one that could provide valuable information from his own experience and here we go, he did it!  And I think he is totally right! Unfortunately...

 

Thank you mate.

And I'm still waiting for the next move from Omni and Fly.

In the mean time, I'm enjoying new found homeship at Bellini, Tropez and now Titan!

When old doors close...new ones will open! hehehe.

[Awena]

@ Afi thank you for sharing and you could consider Omny and Fly away.. 

 

I will find better casino for you even thought you are platinum at fly .. 

 

Better change the house, or you just cant live without their bonuses, both ways, you will survive.

 

If you manage to get your bonus rights back, I want you to take more money from them. 

 

previous or this month x 12 multiplier ! How about that ?

[Raptordinos]

Was hoping that Afi will respond to Jelena's last question as he's the one that could provide valuable information from his own experience and here we go, he did it!  And I think he is totally right! Unfortunately...

 

And what about to blacklist, on AskGamblers website, casinos where winning is virtually forbidden ???  

[Luciana]

But that's awful!!

 

On the other hand, so many casinos have that silly paragraph, in their T&C, that they reserve the right to do whatever they want and wherever they want, with any reason they find suitable. Something like that

[Raptordinos]

But that's awful!!

 

On the other hand, so many casinos have that silly paragraph, in their T&C, that they reserve the right to do whatever they want and wherever they want, with any reason they find suitable. Something like that

 

Maybe casinos won't write on their terms something like "consistent winners will be expeled from our casino" but now I can see they do that, though. Afi has been experienced issues like that, as posted above. I think if players must honorably assume their loss after playing, casinos should do the same.

[ValDes]

I think we are changing the main topic focus now. Winning too much is one thing, how casinos react when a problem gambler is recognized is totally different subject...

 

And what about to blacklist, on AskGamblers website, casinos where winning is virtually forbidden ???  

 

What do you mean by this "virtually forbidden"? Casinos, both land based and online, have the sacred right to protect their business and if that means to ask players who are winning too much to leave the house then so be it. Is that fair? In my humble opinion, NO. Do they have the right to do that? Yes, they do have the right to do that, especially if they have that "God's clause" stated somewhere within their terms and conditions... 

 

Most important question however is "Is there something that player could do to protect himself in situations like that?". And the answer again would be "Yes, to read VERY carefully casino terms and forum like this one for example BEFORE joining any casino". 

[Adebisi213]

I think raptordinos meant casinos that will happily accept your deposits, but once it comes to the point you want to cash out a substantial some of money they will try to come with countless excuses/reasons to stall to not do so. More a matter of rogue casinos since he's referring to the blacklist, and hasn't much to do with problem gambling itself IMO. Although they probably wouldn't care about any addicts either.

 

But you're right when you say the casino has the right to block access if players are 'too successful' and a 'threat' to their business in their eyes. They like winners as long it's based on luck, but if they see you as a AP (Advantage Player) who consistently manages to beat the odds with the help of bonuses it's not uncommon for them to block access.

 

Not saying Afi is an AP but they probably got tired of him winning lol. I would rather perceive that as a compliment, but luckily there are plenty of other places that would be begging for his business. At least they did the right thing as in always paying him out and not enforcing some predatory rule to keep his winnings.

 

Same goes for players that are able to exploit any malfunction/leaks in games btw (yes, they do exist), casinos will not wait until they are put out of business. They will apply a strong pro active stance to exclude anyone who has 'suspect' win rates over a prolonged period of time to protect their casino. This goes for online casino's as well as land based casinos.

 

We just hardly ever hear about them because most of us lose on the long term as the odds/RTP dictate.

[Luciana]

"God's clause" is exactly the one I was thinking about, but didn't know that we gablers use this name for it.