General warning for Trada Casino and TradaGames inc

[jwholland]

Well I don't expect them to do, for some reason, they are not willing to answer a few simple questions, and think I'm bluffing. Believe me, not the case, and this will not go away by ignoring me, instead of dialogue. 

[ValDes]

5 hours ago, cocopop3011 said:

Well I don't know if our rep can jump in here since you've started action against them and live chat can't give me a direct yes or no answer to the question. Let's see if @RachelTrada may be able to clarify this more.

Well, I believe Rachel has already given their point of view on the matter here and by the look of it, they do not intend to engage into any further discussions due to player's legal actions against Trada.  

[jwholland]

That doesn't change that they are still offering illegal play to players from holland,  this is misleading and in violation with Dutch law.  I'm addressing this to warn players from holland.  What is wrong with that?

[jwholland]

@ValDes my suggested edit for the Trada Casino page has been under review for 16 days now, maybe you can assist me on that from your side? I think we have common goals: legal, fair and open online gaming.  Questions on such crucial matters should be very easy to answer for any casino operation, as they reflect quality, fairness and honesty. 

 

[cocopop3011]

3 hours ago, jwholland said:

@ValDes my suggested edit for the Trada Casino page has been under review for 16 days now, maybe you can assist me on that from your side? I think we have common goals: legal, fair and open online gaming.  Questions on such crucial matters should be very easy to answer for any casino operation, as they reflect quality, fairness and honesty. 

 

What was your edit? Because iDEAL has already been removed from the review. Restricted country edit?

[jwholland]

Yes it was. Offering play to players from the Netherlands is restricted by local law, and a clear violation. Activities are illegal, and besides the casino, also players (more important) could get in trouble: either by the casino ( not paying after a big win, as they could claim you were breaking terms) or local enforcing authority.

Please note that Trada actively blocks other countries from play, but with enforcing body in Holland just taking shape, misuse current lack of oversight. Several big casino operation have been fined 500K+ recent months for same violation. Trada will join the list. 

[ValDes]

10 hours ago, jwholland said:

@ValDes my suggested edit for the Trada Casino page has been under review for 16 days now, maybe you can assist me on that from your side? I think we have common goals: legal, fair and open online gaming.  Questions on such crucial matters should be very easy to answer for any casino operation, as they reflect quality, fairness and honesty. 

 

Rest assured your report is being handled and we will update our info when we have the required information from the operator. 

[jwholland]

ok thank you. i've attached a screenshots of the dutch gambling authority, that are very clear. 

So the operator can claim that there Jersey licences allows dutch players, but this licences obviously does not overrule dutch law. They are misleading players (including me), that can get in trouble because of this. Offering remote play in holland, as well as advertising, is illegal and will be fined. 

@ValDesthank you

 

[ValDes]

Hmm, have you addressed your concerns to the only competent authority in this situation, the "De Kansspelautoriteit"? 

If yes, then what was their feedback? 

Thanks. 

[jwholland]

Yes I did, they will start an investigation, but as with every government proceedings, this takes time. In  the mean while, the recommended me to inform the casino and make a formal complaint. I started this topic to make other players aware of what is going on, and the risk they are exposed to while playing at  this illegal operation ( for dutch players). 

[jwholland]

Any update on this @ValDes? Thank you

[cocopop3011]

6 minutes ago, jwholland said:

Any update on this @ValDes? Thank you

If you are referring to the review edit, please note the office does not work during weekends but it will be looked at in due course.

[jwholland]

ok thxn, but I thought he was handeling this, as he reacted and contacted Trada support chat. Please take into account that the edit suggestion  was submitted 15 September. Thank you 

[jwholland]

Well the suggested edit was rejected?! 

"

In casino T&C Netherlands in not on the list of restricted countries. We have also checked with account manager of casino and he confirmed the same info. Thank you for your response and we apologize for keeping you waiting so long.

'

Yes that is the case, so what else is new? The fact is that they are actively breaking Dutch governing law, and offer ILLEGAL play.  

Why can't Trada answer simple questions:

- Do you have a dutch license?  

- Are you aware that your offering service in holland ( ip location) is illegal? As has been made clear: https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2019/08/dutch-gambling-watchdog-fines-unibet-e450000-for-breaking-rules/    (see screenshot also)

- You claim that this is player responsibility,  why then do you block several countries from play? Please elaborate on reasons why excluding.

- Why are players from holland not warned, that they are playing illegal according to dutch law. Player protections is inadequate. this is similar to letting a known minor(<18y) to play, willingly 

But @RachelTrada, nothing going on, all is in order, lol. Good thing is that my complaints can actually count as 'first strike/warning', so they can move up to the 'fines' section. 

 

[Flatzem]

What would happen if unibet and bwin didn't pay the fines? Dutch government should realise that competition is good for business, if they can offer a better product then more people will play at Holland Casino instead of somewhere else like unibet or bwin or other places.

[ValDes]

Not surprised at all seeing how our Content team handled your suggest-an-edit request. In fact, that was the only correct way since we work with what's written within casino's terms and conditions after all. 

Strongly encourage you to be patient enough and wait till the "De Kansspelautoriteit" investigation (which should be allegedly started by now as per your own words)  is over and you have their official statement on the matter. 

[jwholland]

23 hours ago, Flatzem said:

What would happen if Unibet and bwin didn't pay the fines? Dutch government should realise that competition is good for business, if they can offer a better product then more people will Play at Holland Casino instead of somewhere else like Unibet or bwin or other places.

Accountable persons will face jail time at the end of road, but it will never come to this, as bank account can be  frozen and confiscated at request by Dutch justice department almost anywhere in world. Casino profits find their way back to account holders at major financial institutes most of the time

I agree that competition is good, but Holland casino does not operate online, they are real casino's.  Offering services in a country that does not yet allow it ( it is coming), is illegal. 

[jwholland]

18 hours ago, ValDes said:

Not surprised at all seeing how our Content team handled your suggest-an-edit request. In fact, that was the only correct way since we work with what's written within casino's terms and conditions after all. 

Strongly encourage you to be patient enough and wait till the "De Kansspelautoriteit" investigation (which should be allegedly started by now as per your own words)  is over and you have their official statement on the matter. 

Yes, things are in motion that is for sure. First one to know will be Trada. I was notified that this is under investigation, but probably will not be informed of outcome - if not public-.

I still find it remarkable that they even risk playing this game, and not take action. They will be fined, moreover, will not be able to apply for legal licensing in 2020, because of this. Minimal 2y exclusion, and if in violation again even longer or permanent rejection. When they are fined, I will expand civil lawsuit, with more affected players in Holland. Civil proceedings are on hold, as requested by justice department. 

I can't stand this illegal profiting from players they are willingly facilitating ... If a player from holland hits the jackpot: you broke terms, as play is illegal in local jurisdiction. 

[jwholland]

Its still baffling that Trada will not even provide confirmation that other NL players are secure, and playing legit.

 

Why not share information that will instantly debunk every claim I make? Licensing is public record anyway?  It will provide clarification for other dutch players?

 

[pinnit2015]

They’ve told you they won’t talk here and to take concerns via the legal route, which you say you have.

why are you still prattling on?

 

[pinnit2015]

Anyhow, I'm out of this one - Won't be giving this guy a further platform to lead whatever agenda he has in his mind (after his little 'crusade' against a respected service in The Pogg)

And it's not 'baffling' - Trada, upon confirmation that you've taken this elsewhere, are not going to plaster on a forum their response. 

I'm not commenting on the validity of the claims (Grey Zone) but there's ways and means to go about things and you appear to be stuck on 'repeat' 

If you want to wage your moral crusading against casino's/sites I've a list as long as my arm that I'd be happy to assist you with. Sadly, for you, TP and Trada aren't two of them. 

[jwholland]

As them withholding reply has nothing to do with legal proceedings what so ever. Initial complaint was about licensing, and why not debunk my claim with legal documents already in place ( T&C, License ect) for other players? 

Every other player from holland could ask the same questions, do you think they will reply then? They can at least provide clarifycation for them? 

@pinnit2015 Maybe you can ask? I will shut up if they have a valid argument . 

My moral crusade indeed is repetitive in nature, but hope to spread the message.  

With casinos restricting Holland suddenly over the last week, I just cannot stand allowing  play, while in violation of Trada T&C, putting players at risk. It does not belong to a highly respected operation. 

 

[jwholland]

2 hours ago, pinnit2015 said:

Anyhow, I'm out of this one - Won't be giving this guy a further platform to lead whatever agenda he has in his mind (after his little 'crusade' against a respected service in The Pogg)

And it's not 'baffling' - Trada, upon confirmation that you've taken this elsewhere, are not going to plaster on a forum their response. 

I'm not commenting on the validity of the claims (Grey Zone) but there's ways and means to go about things and you appear to be stuck on 'repeat' 

If you want to wage your moral crusading against casino's/sites I've a list as long as my arm that I'd be happy to assist you with. Sadly, for you, TP and Trada aren't two of them. 

How and in what form is asking a claimed independent watchdog for financial reports abnormal? I've never seen an organisations that states unbiased/independent mediation, that does not provide financial disclosure. Not public, and not if requested. Moreover if you find company structures that are questionable. 

Why not disclose the very thing that confirms independent ruling position..  It should not be even a point for discussion.. Come one are you being naive? 

https://affiliateinsider.com/news/affiliate/pogg-making-case-affiliate-trade-union/

Mediator.. lol.  Report any conflict of interest maybe?

[pinnit2015]

1 hour ago, jwholland said:

How and in what form is asking a claimed independent watchdog for financial reports abnormal? I've never seen an organisations that states unbiased/independent mediation, that does not provide financial disclosure. Not public, and not if requested. Moreover if you find company structures that are questionable. 

Why not disclose the very thing that confirms independent ruling position..  It should not be even a point for discussion.. Come one are you being naive? 

https://affiliateinsider.com/news/affiliate/pogg-making-case-affiliate-trade-union/

Mediator.. lol.  Report any conflict of interest maybe?

I'm not naive in the slightest, you on the other hand appear to be walking around with your fingers in your ears. Do you even listen?

TP replied to you, quite reasonably and you continued to santer on and on in another forum. 

The fact that they were deemed to be of good standing in being appointed an ADR by the UKGC says it all. So, excuse me, while i don't hold any weight to your 'observations'

The company structure IS NOT questionable (and i work in that area) - if it was they wouldn't have been appointed.

This is going round in circles - whatever ur beef is, take it up with the authorities and get off your soap box. 

You were banned from another forum for, basically, being a tosser and i hope the same happens here. 

[jwholland]

Well I do listen, but I'm not getting any answers.

Are they still ADR by UKGC? think not 

And reply to a my question: why do they not provide any financial disclosure? Even if they are stil ADR for UKGC ( as you deem proof of valid company structure), they could still provide this?

@pinnit2015http://www.aleaconsultinggroup.com/what-we-do

yeah call me a tosser, get me banned, but at least answer a question for once.. 

Either playing a mute, or actually being one.. 

 

What area do you work in?  Deeming it not questionable?  If you have any legal experience, you would know guidelines for mediation.