Online casinos verifying system upon withdrawl needs to change

[copyyy]

Hello, so i am here to discuss with you that online casinos verifying system upon withdrawal needs a change for real.
Today i came upon once casino won't name it but short story i deposited around 10euros there over SKRILL and everything was done in a matter of seconds , after that 2hours playing i was up around 100+ euros and wanted to make a withdraw.
I wen't to their withdraw option and saw that i have to verify and they asked me for ID picture which i uploaded Front/Back , Hour later i saw its approved tried to withdraw but was still unable to do so.
Contacted live support and they legit asked me to upload
Passport Picture - even if i already uploaded ID = Which i could upload and wanted to.
Bank Statement something with my credit card which i don't have because i didn't get it from bank when i got my credit card guess that's how things go in Serbia.
Utility Bill that isn't older then 3 months - Which i could and wanted to upload.
Instead of Bank statement i offered my driver license that has all information about me , My City,Full Adress,Picture and everything and they declined multiple times said that i have to upload everything above to make a withdraw.
So my point here is when you deposit everything is alright but when you are about to withdraw they ask you about 5-6 documents that its not even easy to get in countries like Serbia and stuff.
Like I'am withdrawing 100,000$ from a bank not 100$ from casino , just can't understand why do they need so much stuff and not even thinking about negotiation with me and accepting driver license picture , and even utility bill had adress on it but they couldn't care less said i can't withdraw my money and just closed the chat.

[TheAverageGuy]

3 Things need to be verified, each with their own document(s)

1) Your id (name, date of birth) this is solved with passport/license/state id card

2) Your address (recent bill recieved by post to address that matches provided ID, utility bill, government issued document, bank statement etc)

3) Your payment source (photo of the credit/bank card used, screenshots of online accounts) again with information that matches the above 2 items.

Unfortunately, while a single piece of ID may cover most of the bases, it isn't enough to satisfy regulations and requirements.

With that said, some sites are more of a nit picky pain in the ***** abut their requirements for each step, method of submission, size, dimensions, mothers childhood crush..

If you want to get paid, you'll jump through the hoops

I do however feel your pain and wish you as hassle free a KYC as possible.

 

Cheers!

[Fiekie247]

@copyyy as  TheAverageGuy mentioned those things are necessary. Remember they not just doing it because they want to but regulation and gambling laws are enforcing them to do so. Imagine how the people with SE issues that are only discovered at withdrawal stage must feel.

I noticed lately most casinos now ask for passport or some Identification with an  "expiration date''. In South Africa our official government ID does not have expiry date, so now I need to verify myself with either drivers or passport.

Bank Statement normally would be required if you use credit card, but if you using E-wallet, then Electric, Gas, internet and related Bills are accepted. However you do get some casinos that need 2 proof of address, like a bank statement with your address and a normal utility bill as well.

It was mentioned various times all over the forum in certain topics, that KYC should be performed before a first deposit is made by the player. Slotland and WinADay has this policy in place.

Be glad they did not ask you for a selfie with your ID card, or a Selfie holding your ID card, while your laptop is in the background logged into your casino account - Those you get from the Araxio N.V and Tranella Group limited casinos randomly at times.

I wish you a speedy KYC and hope you come right with the verification.

 

[ValDes]

Hey there @copyyy

As already mentioned above, there are certain regulatory and licensing requirements set in place when it comes to online casino operations which any gambling company must follow no matter what. Such requirements for example are referring to certain international AML recent regulations and changes which are forcing operators to enhance their verification /KYC/ due-diligence on customers even more. 

Bottom line is that KYC should be done prior depositing and not afterwards. So far it seems only UKGC is adopting such a strategy and forcing their licensees to implement/change their verification procedures accordingly.  

In your particular case you should keep in mind that additional checks on your account could be triggered due to your country of residence. You may here whatnot about globalism, "Europe on one speed", unified market, etc but the truth is everyone, including oversees operators, are looking suspiciously on players coming from Eastern Europe.

[copyyy]

Trust me i would wan't to take selfie holding my ID card and pic of pc in the background being logged in on their site then uploading about 5 documents
From now on I'am just sticking with casino that is in my country because they just ask for ID/PASSPORT Picture.

Edited July 3, 2019 by ValDes
Quote issue fixed.

[TheAverageGuy]

2 hours ago, ValDes said:

 

In your particular case you should keep in mind that additional checks on your account could be triggered due to your country of residence. You may here whatnot about globalism, "Europe on one speed", unified market, etc but the truth is everyone, including oversees operators, are looking suspiciously on players coming from Eastern Europe.

I got no trouble with those guys, it’s the Canadians that make me twitchy.. I just don’t trust anyone that friendly.. 

[copyyy]

@ValDesYeah but why would they be suspicious for players from Eastern Europe 
It's like at least when I register to the site make me verify with everything you need and I will decide do i wan't to do it or just ask to close my account.
In Serbia you don't even get bank statement when you get your credit card out they just give you credit card and when I visit the bank its to withdraw money from ATM on my visa electron card because i am working online.
And about UKGC implementing such a rule i think everyone should do it because it should be like that.

Their excuse is money laundering but how would someone even be able to do so if they deposit money in the casino and win it the proper way?
I am pretty sure there is a rule if you deposit over SKRILL you are only able to withdraw on SKRILL so i don't get what are casinos trying to prove there.

[pinnit2015]

2 hours ago, copyyy said:

@ValDesYeah but why would they be suspicious for players from Eastern Europe 
It's like at least when I register to the site make me verify with everything you need and I will decide do i wan't to do it or just ask to close my account.
In Serbia you don't even get bank statement when you get your credit card out they just give you credit card and when I visit the bank its to withdraw money from ATM on my visa electron card because i am working online.
And about UKGC implementing such a rule i think everyone should do it because it should be like that.

Their excuse is money laundering but how would someone even be able to do so if they deposit money in the casino and win it the proper way?
I am pretty sure there is a rule if you deposit over Skrill you are only able to withdraw on Skrill so i don't get what are casinos trying to prove there.

Because you're still allowing the transfer of money into a business, whereby those monies may originate from the proceeds of crime. It's why ML and RG are getting inter-tangled: they are, in many ways, different sides of the same coin.

The withdrawal to the same method is only one aspect of it - they've still 'placed' the illegal cash. 

Don't know the stats for people convicted of online ML, but tbh i think it's probably low - after all, your starting point is the house edge of 4 odd %. 

Personally, i think it's overhyped - if i wanted to ML there are at least 4/5 options over and beyond online casino's that i'd pick. 

In terms of Eastern Europe - can't remember the source but over the last few years there was a reported upsurge in fraud originating from some of the baltic states.  So obviously they have such places high on their risk assessment. 

[honestdude]

On 7/2/2019 at 6:12 PM, copyyy said:

@ValDesYeah but why would they be suspicious for players from Eastern Europe 
It's like at least when I register to the site make me verify with everything you need and I will decide do i wan't to do it or just ask to close my account.
In Serbia you don't even get bank statement when you get your credit card out they just give you credit card and when I visit the bank its to withdraw money from ATM on my visa electron card because i am working online.
And about UKGC implementing such a rule i think everyone should do it because it should be like that.

Their excuse is money laundering but how would someone even be able to do so if they deposit money in the casino and win it the proper way?
I am pretty sure there is a rule if you deposit over Skrill you are only able to withdraw on Skrill so i don't get what are casinos trying to prove there.

I agree with your comment but I do find that although there are stricter regulations casinos are also "mostly" benefiting using these regulations to delay or sometimes reject withdrawals. 

I've had the same issue with one casino whereby they kept rejecting documents as they wanted screenshots and not PDF files and I could not email them either as they wanted all documents uploaded  on their system. There were constant demands of new documents and some people as I read don't have mailed bank statements, expiry dates etc.  I had to send them a pic of myself, (yes, I did it), holding my driver's license, (only because I wanted to retrieve my funds). I would have never done this had I known to begin with. I was a long time member and they never did ask until suddenly one day I tried to withdraw again  and they demanded or I lose my funds. This was with Bob Casino. I have no problem mentioning who either. I ended up just playing all my funds away anyhow cause it was getting way too complicated. 

In summary I find there are only 2 solutions one of which you mentioned. 

1) Have or force all casinos to demand verification before deposit time and not afterwards allowing each player to decide if they want to give out sensitive  information. 

2) All casinos within the regulatory country should create a government   department, (or something of this type), whereby only they receive these documents that are asked of us so there could be some control preventing fraud or identity theft. (which I was a victim of).

In other words, players follow the same regulations on a "standard" document check needed submitting to a "safe entity" whereby that entity would then acknowledge to the  casinos, within that jurisdiction, that the subject player is legit according to documents received. This would keep documents confidential and not circulated to all casinos. 

Basically a "middleman".  This would prevent large amounts of fraud and identity theft which costs governments tons of cash and would also regulate the control of rogue casinos, privacy laws and standardizes the process in many countries.

Just my thoughts.    

< attachment removed by request of the OP>

[honestdude]

By the way, I have no idea why when I submitted it attached a screenshot cause I tried to remove it but it never let me even after I pressed delete. This is an Ask Gamblers system issue. lol

[copyyy]

22 minutes ago, honestdude said:

By the way, I have no idea why when I submitted it attached a screenshot cause I tried to remove it but it never Let me even after I pressed delete. This is an Ask Gamblers system issue. lol

I guess that's an issue with askgamblers for your picture xD.
Anyway, i agree with your comment too and something like that should be definitely done in near future.
For sure first "Force all casinos to demand verification before deposit"
Because 13y kid can register on casino even now and deposit the money lol via SKRILL that doesn't even require some verification process for amount of money like 50$.

[dillfly2000]

Never had ID verification problems, But my bank doesn't issue cards with names on it unless requested. 

So my card pics had no name, but I had proof it was part of my bank and the withdraws and deposits were from the card attached to my account. So the casino asked me to go to my bank and get a signed letter from them proving it's my card. I don't have the time for that, plus I have to make an appointment with my bank for this kind of thing. WHere i would have to explain to my bank that I'm trying to play at an online casino (no thanks) So with 200+ winnings in my account, I told them to close my account.

This happened with two big name casinos.  I understand security, safety and all that, but there should be other ways to work these things out. I'm a paying customer, and I pay a lot. I feel it would be in the casinos best interest to help as much as possible to get customers playing.

I'm with many casinos (40+) and these are the only 2 that gave me this trouble. Even casinos that are part of the same label let me sign up and withdraw with no issue.

 

I'm guessing these things vary from who's on shift. One person may be more lax where another could be a straight by the books no exceptions police-esque kind of person.

[ValDes]

17 hours ago, honestdude said:

By the way, I have no idea why when I submitted it attached a screenshot cause I tried to remove it but it never Let me even after I pressed delete. This is an Ask Gamblers system issue. lol

Yeah, sorry about that. Have just manually removed your attachment.

[catapultaudio]

Not being from Serbia I have no idea how things work there, but surely it must be possible to get confirmation from your bank that your credit card is registered to you.... or a statement for it sent to you by letter? Many of us don't bother receiving postal statements in general now but obtaining these documents as a one-off is usually fairly easy. It might be annoying but do it once and then get the full set of documents uploaded to every casino you frequent right away... you are usually good for 3-6 months too for any new casinos you sign up with. 

I always made a habit of trying to get verified before it got to the point where I was making a withdrawal anyway, but I must admit to being a bit annoyed by the latest regulations here in the UK which occasionally force me to get my documents verified before I can even PLAY ... I don't see why every casino can't spend the little extra money to implement electronic verification - if they can't afford to do that, what faith should I have that they can afford to pay me when I win?!

[pinnit2015]

5 minutes ago, catapultaudio said:

Not being from Serbia I have no idea how things work there, but surely it must be possible to get confirmation from your bank that your credit card is registered to you.... or a statement for it sent to you by letter? Many of us don't bother receiving postal statements in general now but obtaining these documents as a one-off is usually fairly easy. It might be annoying but do it once and then get the full set of documents uploaded to every casino you frequent right away... you are usually good for 3-6 months too for any new casinos you sign up with. 

I always made a habit of trying to get verified before it got to the point where I was making a withdrawal anyway, but I must admit to being a bit annoyed by the latest regulations here in the UK which occasionally force me to get my documents verified before I can even Play ... I don't see why every casino can't spend the little extra money to implement electronic verification - if they can't afford to do that, what faith should I have that they can afford to pay me when I win?!

Think one of the things is the differences between the UK Bookmaker type ones - Willy Hill, Ladbrokes, Coral, Sky Vegas and the rest: not once have i been asked to send in anything.

[Fiekie247]

11 hours ago, pinnit2015 said:

Think one of the things is the differences between the UK Bookmaker type ones - Willy Hill, Ladbrokes, Coral, Sky Vegas and the rest: not once have i been asked to send in anything.

I think for UK punters they do not need to send in anything to verify at the above mentioned casinos apparently.

[pinnit2015]

1 hour ago, Fiekie247 said:

I think for UK punters they do not need to send in anything to verify at the above mentioned casinos apparently.

If UK based, all done (to my experience) in the background - throw in Malta based, different story. Presumably, it's because the UK ones have the electronic infrastructure to do a lot of this against the mass of data they can cross check against. Said before,  i really do not see how a picture of an easily mocked up letter from the bank is a particularly good 'address check.  Same with passports. There's never been examples of forged passports, surely....

Doing it all electronically may cost more for non-uk initially, but surely 1. Enhanced assurances 2. Not as much staff time wasted pouring over those 4 corners 3. not as much money spent holding/protecting the sensitive data, are bigger advantages. 

[Fiekie247]

2 hours ago, pinnit2015 said:

If UK based, all done (to my experience) in the background - throw in Malta based, different story. Presumably, it's because the UK ones have the electronic infrastructure to do a lot of this against the mass of data they can cross check against. Said before,  i really do not see how a picture of an easily mocked up letter from the bank is a particularly good 'address check.  Same with passports. There's never been examples of forged passports, surely....

Doing it all electronically may cost more for non-uk initially, but surely 1. Enhanced assurances 2. Not as much staff time wasted pouring over those 4 corners 3. not as much money spent holding/protecting the sensitive data, are bigger advantages. 

The Best!

I like how they like to put emphasize on the 1.) '' Identification should have an expiration date'' 2.) Make sure all 4 corners are visible ( no scanned copies)!

[pinnit2015]

10 hours ago, Fiekie247 said:

The Best!

I like how they like to put emphasize on the 1.) '' Identification should have an expiration date'' 2.) Make sure all 4 corners are visible ( no scanned copies)!

It's mental...makes zero sense. At work we're working with some of the telecommunications companies in terms of looking at the possibilities of automation, AI etc and the benefits it can bring (Do you have connections to IBM? - if so, you'll probably know they're paving the way forward with a slot of AI developments and the rest) - so to go from those conversations to that is just mind boggling.

Yeah - i 'expired' on the 2nd January-19 accord to my ID,  I am currently gambling from beyond the thin veil. Sweet baby Jesus. 

[ValDes]

Actually, they are still countless number of players trying to forge somehow their verification paperwork, passports being among the most common cases. For what is worth, this is mostly referring to players from Bangladesh, India, Ukraine, Russia, etc but we've also stumbled across UK&ROI punters doing absolutely the same although perfectly in aware there's no way to get away with that with all these electronic databases existing in UK and providing unlimited options for person's background due-diligence.... 

[pinnit2015]

17 minutes ago, ValDes said:

Actually, they are still countless number of players trying to forge somehow their verification paperwork, passports being among the most common cases. For what is worth, this is mostly referring to players from Bangladesh, India, Ukraine, Russia, etc but we've also stumbled across UK&ROI punters doing absolutely the same although perfectly in aware there's no way to get away with that with all these electronic databases existing in UK and providing unlimited options for person's background due-diligence.... 

Should also be mentioned that the use of ‘electronic’ verification (identity monitoring in  the background) that you can source from a lot of very good suppliers, has the added benefit that, depending on the terms, the possibility of removing the risk of financial penalties should something go amiss. Presumably you’d still be fined as a casino but, should a fault lie with the company you use, you would have civil recourse to peruse them for their contractual. You verify yourself only based on a picture taken on a iPhone, you’re not going to have that. 

Maybe someone should set up a shared service for account verification. It was mooted that the UKGC could take on this role. You can imagine the response to that by them.