Casino that you withdrawn most money from ??

[Mister Santoro]

Hi guys, what is the name of Casino that you've withdrawn most money from? 
Maybe we should try it out too 

[Afi4wins]

The one place that I have withdrawn the most...NETELLER! Out Neteller, into casino whatever... 

Ooops...sorry...just fooling around a bit... 

[cocopop3011]

Ooooh...do you know what that's actually a very good question, I'm not entirely sure I know the answer as I don't keep records and it;s hard to say what they've all added up to over the years. IO bet our regular members will know though, they're much better at record keeping than me!

[blondie]

Probably the ones I mostly deposit- Casino Heroes, Slotjoint.. Not so much at VideoSlots- more deposits than withdrawals. 

[Mister Santoro]

On 4/10/2019 at 9:16 AM, blondie said:

Probably the ones I mostly deposit- Casino Heroes, Slotjoint.. Not so much at Video Slots- more deposits than withdrawals. 

sorry, but slotjoint looks bad , but I don't mean anything bad by saying that (if that makes any sense) 

[cocopop3011]

On 4/18/2019 at 6:12 PM, Mister Santoro said:

sorry, but slotjoint looks bad , but I don't mean anything bad by saying that (if that makes any sense) 

We all have our own opinions on casinos don’t worry, if you don’t like somewhere you don’t like them and that’s okay

[pinnit2015]

The one you deposit at the most?

They should all play the same anyhow because, you know, it's all random 

Me - Redbet cos it's the one i use the most, followed by VS and Casumo. 

[Mister Santoro]

36 minutes ago, pinnit2015 said:

The one you deposit at the most?

They should all Play the same anyhow because, you know, it's all random 

Me - Redbet cos it's the one i use the most, followed by VS and Casumo. 

I respectfully disagree that 'it's all random'... there must be some at least minor distinctions among casinos.... in a sense of winnings' percentage.
That's why I asked the question on the thread. I am new in this and I am trying out different options. You guys on this forum are of a great help. 

Thanks

[Afi4wins]

44 minutes ago, Mister Santoro said:

I respectfully disagree that 'it's all random'... there must be some at least minor distinctions among casinos.... in a sense of winnings' percentage.
That's why I asked the question on the thread. I am new in this and I am trying out different options. You guys on this forum are of a great help. 

Thanks

Yep, to me personally, you are not wrong there Mister Santoro!

From my own vast experiences, I can tell you that even sister casinos each play and pay differently, although they share the same platform and same softwares! The slight variances depend on a lot of other settings, each specific to each casino, even slightly affecting games from the software providers themselves. What do I mean by that? I have seen how my favourite Supe It Up game can play slightly differently at one casino from the next, although the game come from the same Microgaming server/s!

But of course, many others may, or would, disagree and dispute on this, but it is you who are playing, and if you are observant enough, not the 'set on autoplay whilst I go do something else' kind, then you definitely would see and feel the slight variances.

Hence, I always stick to where my games play and pay the best! 

[pinnit2015]

How come? If they're not hosting the software games, or caching them AFAIK, the  'variable' can only be the RTP settings. 

Only thing would be if the software provider had 100 different versions of the same game for 100 casinos - which i would find to be incredulous, if true. For a start it'd cost too much for the software company to 'smooth' RTP payouts across different stakes for each casino preference - right now, they produce 1 (sometimes 3) RTP's and sell them; job done.

Some days DOA good on Casumo, some Days it's Novibet when i switch - 100% sure they're the same game though.

We can talk about 'feelings' all day, but that's all they are - subjective - for a while i thought Bonanza was rubbish on Redbet, and it was, and then it was the best etc. Sure enough it will swap back to being Casumo: and the cycle continues. 

And again - it's the game that's certified by the testing labs: if the casinos could 'tweak' it, which i doubt, then it'd be likely construed as illegal. 

End of day - just play where you feel the luckiest, even if that feelings is based on gamblers fallacy.

It's be good if we could get someone on here from a software developer/compliance background - though no one would believe them

 

[pinnit2015]

2 hours ago, Mister Santoro said:

I respectfully disagree that 'it's all random'... there must be some at least minor distinctions among casinos.... in a sense of winnings' percentage.
That's why I asked the question on the thread. I am new in this and I am trying out different options. You guys on this forum are of a great help. 

Thanks

See above - yes: if you play a PNG at Stakers casino you will notice a difference (over time) to Casumo: because of the difference in RTP of 5%.

Random as can be in terms of 'controlled randomness' or pseudo-randomness: whatever way want to think about it.

It's all in the maths. 

[Afi4wins]

25 minutes ago, pinnit2015 said:

See above - yes: if you Play a PNG at Stakers casino you will notice a difference (over time) to Casumo: because of the difference in RTP of 5%.

Random as can be in terms of 'controlled randomness' or pseudo-randomness: whatever way want to think about it.

It's all in the maths. 

Sorry mate, but I have to disagree that it's all in the maths!

Notice how scientists must carry out all their experiments under very precisely controlled environments? Because environment have effects on the results...in scientific terms, very profound differential results!

Notice too why some same prestigious cars tend to break down more often than others? Yet again, due to the varying 'operating environment' of each car, even though all components of each car are exactly identical!

In practice, scientific mathematical equations may be the same, but when applied under 'uncontrolled environments', they tend to give varied results! This is scientifically proven, so you don't have to take my word for it!

Likewise, in casino games, which also totally depend on mathematical equations, with the same equations and algorithms, will tend to give varied results when operating under different 'uncontrolled' environments, simply because no two casino's 'operating environment' are identical...and they are never under 'precisely controlled environments' either!

 

[Afi4wins]

2 hours ago, pinnit2015 said:

How come? If they're not hosting the software games, or caching them AFAIK, the  'variable' can only be the RTP settings. 

Here again, I cannot agree with you mate! Hehehe.

The RTP may remain the same, as preset by the software provider, yet the game can still play vastly differently from one casino to another...why???

Let me put this RTP thing back into its correct perspective...what is the sole purpose of an RTP? To ensure that the desired results are as consistently attainable as possible...without this RTP presetting, the RNG (pseudo-random or not) could go completely wild, and the game could produce out-of-control wins and losses...which would be completely undesirable!

So...what the RTP actually does is to create a 'controlled environment' for the mathematics, algorithms and what-have-yous to work more properly, under more stringent guidances, and always to stay within the boundaries set, thereby preventing totally undesirable results!

And so yet again...what does all that mean? It simply means that all games are therefore being played in a 'controlled environment', by as much as practically possible, but can never be under 'precisely controlled environment' as required for scientific experiments. simply because of the huge amount of other variances involved which may effect the operating environment.

All clear now? Hehehe. 

[Afi4wins]

Most importantly...I almost forgot to say out...

A 'precisely controlled operating environment' for the RTP...if possible at all... could and would produce the same results over and over again...without any variances from the designed or programmed desired results!

"WHAAAAT??? Produce the same results over and over again??? Like in duplicated, repetitive, and repeatable results??? As in scientific experiments???"

"NO! NO! NO! We don't want that kind of repetitive repeatable results...then everything would become so predictive...so predictable that we would lose our shirts and pants!"

And so folks, that's the ONE and ONLY reason why all casino games will NEVER be running under any 'precisely controlled environment' - operating environment, or whatever else environment...simply because casinos only want to make money...never to lose money! Hahaha. 

[pinnit2015]

9 hours ago, Afi4wins said:

Here again, I cannot agree with you mate! Hehehe.

The RTP may remain the same, as preset by the software provider, yet the game can still Play vastly differently from one casino to another...why???

Let me put this RTP thing back into its correct perspective...what is the sole purpose of an RTP? To ensure that the desired results are as consistently attainable as possible...without this RTP presetting, the RNG (pseudo-random or not) could go completely wild, and the game could produce out-of-control wins and losses...which would be completely undesirable!

So...what the RTP actually does is to create a 'controlled environment' for the mathematics, algorithms and what-have-yous to work more properly, under more stringent guidances, and always to stay within the boundaries set, thereby preventing totally undesirable results!

And so yet again...what does all that mean? It simply means that all games are therefore being played in a 'controlled environment', by as much as practically possible, but can never be under 'precisely controlled environment' as required for scientific experiments. simply because of the huge amount of other variances involved which may effect the operating environment.

All clear now? Hehehe. 

And again, I'll go back and say what are the other variables?: you're implying that the games are specific to that casino (due to the varied game play) or that the casino has room for movement in their play which, unless they're intercepting the RNG from the software provider (which would be illegal I'm sure, if it was possible), is highly improbable.

I don't disagree that slots operate with controlled randomness to an extent but that's the same slot across all casinos. 

I simply don't see, from a software coding/RNG point of view, how the casino can affect the play of the game if it's pulling from Netent's servers. Now, if the casino kept a cached version of the game on their OWN servers, then yes, i suppose something could be done. 

It's clear in the sense that I've seen no evidence to tell me anything other than it's the same game across all casinos (RTP variables permitting)

[pinnit2015]

11 hours ago, Afi4wins said:

Sorry mate, but I have to disagree that it's all in the maths!

Notice how scientists must carry out all their experiments under very precisely controlled environments? Because environment have effects on the results...in scientific terms, very profound differential results!

Notice too why some same prestigious cars tend to break down more often than others? Yet again, due to the varying 'operating environment' of each car, even though all components of each car are exactly identical!

In practice, scientific mathematical equations may be the same, but when applied under 'uncontrolled environments', they tend to give varied results! This is scientifically proven, so you don't have to take my word for it!

Likewise, in casino games, which also totally depend on mathematical equations, with the same equations and algorithms, will tend to give varied results when operating under different 'uncontrolled' environments, simply because no two casino's 'operating environment' are identical...and they are never under 'precisely controlled environments' either!

 

Given we've started the car analogy, it can work both ways:

Whenever you have a recall on a car they will state it covers the same car, produced within the same year for example 2011-12 etc: why? Because it's the same production period, therefore  implying that ALL those cars are subject to the same fault because they were all produced identically: they don't say that 'yeah, your car is OK, that one was different even though it was on the same production line': they certainly don't say we produce different quality of cars depending on the Car Show room it's going to.

Are supermarket fruit and veg's the same? No, even though they typically come from only a handful of suppliers: reason for the difference in quality is due to some Supermarkets paying a premium to receive the fresher/best picks - which is what i don't think casinos do when they host a game. 

[ValDes]

And again, we reach to the point where we realize it's all just pure speculations.  

After 15+ years gambling online I'm still having the same fundamental questions towards software vendors which are still left unanswered. Such as my all time top 3 for example:

1. How are the current RTP stats for a particular slot game being formed?   All game rounds  made by all players who ever played that slot game across all operators who are offering this game OR something entirely different?

2.  Is there such an 'animal' called CYCLE integrated within slots? If yes, then it's based on what - time, revenue, number of spins, etc? 

3. How do software vendors earn their profits - flat fee based on combined stakes/bets placed by players in a particular operator/casino group/platform  OR percentage of money lost by players? 

The list could go forever since the more we talk and discuss about the details we start to realize the facts we know for sure on how this giant wheel is actually spinning are literally  zero. Or if I have to use the modern GOT style and paraphrase:  

You Know Nothing, Naive Guru!

[pinnit2015]

Probably best we don’t know what goes on; spin and twist.

Think the vendors are paid something to do with a percentage of each spin: it’s why casinos claim when they offer a bonus it adds another unseen cost.  Plus I’m sure there are different pay schemes on the go.  Who knows though.

Or the other question: how can I have 30 losing spins in a row on Napoleon but not 30 winning ones.

[pinnit2015]

Quick look at Netents annual accounts state ‘almost all revenue comes from royalties: % based on a players bets -wins; whether this is based on a spin by spin basis or a session, not sure. 

[Fiekie247]

57 minutes ago, pinnit2015 said:

Think the vendors are paid something to do with a percentage of each spin: it’s why casinos claim when they offer a bonus it adds another unseen cost.  Plus I’m sure there are different pay schemes on the go.  Who knows though. -

 

And this could be the reason Some casinos have certain vendors restrict their slots from being played with bonus funds.

[Fiekie247]

59 minutes ago, pinnit2015 said:

Or the other question: how can I have 30 losing spins in a row on Napoleon but not 30 winning ones.

Actually never thought of that... You will never have 30 winning spins, but can easily get 1 spin and win x1000 in jammin jars for example in the base game even.

[Afi4wins]

1 hour ago, pinnit2015 said:

Or the other question: how can I have 30 losing spins in a row on Napoleon but not 30 winning ones.

Can you imagine the nightmare casinos and software providers would face if winning spins can go continuously for even several spins in a row? Some punters like to double up their bets with every win, so winning 5 spins in a row, for example, would give that punter a final win of 16x the initial bet size...with a final total win of 31x...that's like winning on $1 bet in the 1st spin, then on $2 bet on the 2nd spin, and on $16 bet on the 5th spin...and that's just for 5 straight wins in a row! The total win from those 5 spins alone could be huge!

Why not win 30 times in a row? Oh come on...those developers aren't stupid...somewhere in those programming lines, there must be a command line that prevents the RNG from dishing out a certain specific number of straight winning spins! How many straight winning spins have you ever encountered so far? As far as I can remember, it could be about 3, or 4 at most...but never big wins...then it would run dry again in recovery!

Don't even have to think why you can't get many winning spins in a row! 

[pinnit2015]

Someone here needs to get a job with a software provider and expose the Wizard wrapped in a curtain. 

[pinnit2015]

Also, people claiming that you don’t get win on big stakes need to think of we’re casinos earn the bulk of their cash: high rollers; saw some indicative figures of 80% coming from big betters (and losers): would they really risk alienating their biggest revenue source at the expense of low rollers (with whom they can live without). 

Read Natasha Schulz book - great read on the Time on Device model most used.

Who'd  have thought the design of a chair could be so lucrative 

[pinnit2015]

Napoleon is probably, if anyone did think it was pure random, the game that makes it painfully obvious it’s not: it trolls you with 6 wilds on the right hand side constantly and likes to add a scatter to stop 4 wilds and a soldier from rolling in: don’t know if that’s a clever design or if people genuinely think ‘oh I was close’