[Solved] Coolbet - refuses withdrawal on false accusations

[Jbl2099]

Hello members,

 

Want to raise awareness of Coolbet, whom has decided not to pay out winnings on false accusation.

 

My mother, born and raised in Iran decided to place her first bet ever, which obviously was on Iran to win their first game at World cup. She deposited 100 SEK (approx 10 USD) and got a bonus of 500%. She placed the full amount on Iran to win, and the own goal made by Morocco in the 93:rd minute sealed the deal.

 

She now had a balance of approx 2500 SEK with a bonus requirement of 15X bonus (7500 SEK) in total. As she knows absolutely nothing about sports, I helped pick out a few suggestions on what to bet on, and after meeting the requirements she went on and played at their casino before cashing out 9000 SEK.

 

Coolbet asked for verification (ID - Bank statement - Proof of address) in which all were approved, but was informed she was going to be extra checked. Weird, but all fine (this process took 10 days).

 

They call her up and ask her all kinds of question (keep in mind she is raised in Iran and does not master the language at all) and she was able to answer most of the questions without any issues. Once asked on what she bet on, she simply answered Iran and alot of basketball (which are the tips I gave her), she obviously couldnt name the teams as it was 10 days ago and she knows nothing about basketball.

 

They also claim that she was unable to name which payment method she used, which is a result of language limitations as she already had sent proof from her bank statement.

 

Please keep in mind that there has been no duplicate accounts, one single IP used only and everything was in order except the following rule they claim she broke:

 

Swedish quote: "Du deltar i spelen för egen räkning och inte på uppdrag av någon annan."

Translated: You are placing bets on your own behalf and not on order by someone else.

 

Because my mother said during their call that I had helped her with tips on what to bet, they claim that she has broken the rules of their terms and condition.

 

I also want to give full permission to Coolbet to publicly reply regarding this case in this forum should they feel I am not fully sharing all details about my case.

 

I´m sure they figured my mother, a 65+ with limited language skills would be an easy target to steal from, little did they know that her son has been in this industry for 10+ years  

 

Sad to see a bigger site (yepp, coolbet is growing in scandinavia) dealing with clients this way.

 

 

[cocopop3011]

Urgh! I hate to say this because I actually think that is a ridiculous term anyway - but you have just admitted in your own post to helping your mother with bets as she knows nothing abount sports?

 

 

As she knows absolutely nothing about sports, I helped pick out a few suggestions on what to bet on, and after meeting the requirements she went on and played at their casino before cashing out 9000 SEK.

 

So, and I mean this with all due respect but I'm just confused how you can say the casino has made false accusations?

[Jbl2099]

I sure did help her with what to bet on, its no different than checking tipsters online and get information on which bets to place.

 

The fact that she placed the bets herself is what matters, if she then heard it from me, from television or on a tipsers site should not matter.

 

Now if I had logged in from her account and placed those bets - yes, they might have had a point, but only one IP was used and that can be tracked back to her address only.

[cocopop3011]

I sure did help her with what to bet on, its no different than checking tipsters online and get information on which bets to place.

 

The fact that she placed the bets herself is what matters, if she then heard it from me, from television or on a tipsers site should not matter.

 

Now if I had logged in from her account and placed those bets - yes, they might have had a point, but only one IP was used and that can be tracked back to her address only.

 

I'm actually with you on this one I really am, like I said I personally think it's a stupid term and I feel for your mother. But the fact that she told them you helped her with the tips then they can impose the term as it reads "on order by someone else" not "someone else made the bets for you".

 

I'm really sorry but I don't think you have a case agaisnt them but hey, I'm not always right and I don't know much about sports terms either so wait for some more replies and see what our members have to say - I'm certainly not the most expericenced person to take advice from in this particular situtation.

[LeoDubbed]

Well, she did told them yes when she was asked whether someone is helping her with her bets, so if this by any means breaking one of their rules I must go with Coco on this one. I don't think you have a case here. Look at the bright side, it's only $10 you lost, even so if they are willing to refund the deposited money, you actually did not lose at all.

[Jbl2099]

Appreciate the feedback from both of you!

 

This rule is not very rare in the industry, and the 10 years I´ve worked in the sportsbook industry its been used the following way:

 

Not Allowed:

- Give money to someone else to place bets for you

- Use someone elses account to place bets

- Have a financial stake on someone elses account

 

Allowed:

- Get tips from friends/family/co-workers

- Use other peoples knowledge to gain advantage in your bets

 

Let´s say for example that you are at work, and a co-worker is telling you that he thinks England is a sure thing to advance to the quarter finals, you are absolutely entitled to place that bets without breaking any rules. Same obviously goes with family members.

 

To be fair, after presenting myself to their CEO, he did offer to settle it for 2000 SEK in which my mother declined. I still claim that this is a no-brainer and would love to hear the opinions of other sportsbook fanatics.

[pinnit2015]

I don't think it's that obviously a case of no to be honest. 

 

The generic term is you register to play on your own behalf and not on someone else's.

 

Providing tips does not in itself constitute acting as an agent for another. If that was the case, half of the UK public who bet at the Grand National would have their winnings confiscated 

 

The question is however probably one of degree - does the OP's heavy involvement mean that the bets are being placed on his behalf. To be fair - if the OP's mum was having regular cash sent to her and was placing bets, then yes, absolutely. But, if he 'tipped' 7500 worth of bets then you could argue he is the one betting. The again, a tenner? Eek - who knows. 

 

And on their behalf means that the other person (in this case the OP) would be the recipient of the benefit, not the mum. 

 

It's a tricky one. Probably the only way to really know would be if everyone's financials were looked at to see who the real beneficial owner/better was. 

 

Take Australia  and their bans - if i set up an account and told people there that if they paid me I'd play slots under my name as they couldn't. That's probably the most obvious on the scale. This, not not much - when is a tip a tip and when is it acting as an agent...i don't know.

 

Personally - it's a massive jump from 'my son helped me pick some teams' to her opening an account on his behalf.

 

Maybe there were other factors - i don't know. 

[pinnit2015]

Hopefully you never got her to place any bets because your role in the sportsbook industry prohibits you? 

 

To be fair OP there's a difference in scale to asking for a one off tip or casual conversation,  to asking someone to specifically pick x,y,z with a relatively high balance....

 

That's what makes it all a bit grey for me. 

[Jbl2099]

Luckily, even us working in the gaming industry are allowed to place bets - just not with our current employer

 

I think you are correct in most of your statements, and should they be able to prove that my mother did anything to break the rule as we interpret it, this case is closed.

 

This is what they use IP check, ID control, bank statement and proof of address for. They know where I live (they checked my linkedin a few times) and can see that I have never been logged in (as I live far from my mother). The only one having access has been her.

 

I have never heard of a similar case previously, which makes it that much more interesting to discuss

[cocopop3011]

Luckily, even us working in the gaming industry are allowed to place bets - just not with our current employer

 

I think you are correct in most of your statements, and should they be able to prove that my mother did anything to break the rule as we interpret it, this case is closed.

 

This is what they use IP check, ID control, bank statement and proof of address for. They know where I live (they checked my linkedin a few times) and can see that I have never been logged in (as I live far from my mother). The only one having access has been her.

 

I have never heard of a similar case previously, which makes it that much more interesting to discuss

 

It is an interesting topic to discuss indeed and a very harsh term for the casino to impose too. But do you think maybe with the language barrier you mentioned some things that were said were mis-interpreted too?

[pinnit2015]

What's weird is that phoned her to basically do a pop quiz as to her bets...Would they do this if Land Based? Probably not

 

Think Coco's right - sounds like they've possibly misinterpreted, maybe your mums gave the impression she's administering an a/c on your behalf- which may account for why they offered an amount. 

 

I've no reason to doubt the OP's version and if i was to look at all that, providing there's nothing else in the background, I'd say it's a ridiculous interpretation of the t's and c's. If it was a large amount and saw a courtroom I'd hazard a guess it'd be found in the OP's favour. 

 

Someone better tell the Channel 4 Horse Racing tipsters that they'd putting peoples money at risk

[pinnit2015]

Luckily, even us working in the gaming industry are allowed to place bets - just not with our current employer

 

I think you are correct in most of your statements, and should they be able to prove that my mother did anything to break the rule as we interpret it, this case is closed.

 

This is what they use IP check, ID control, bank statement and proof of address for. They know where I live (they checked my linkedin a few times) and can see that I have never been logged in (as I live far from my mother). The only one having access has been her.

 

I have never heard of a similar case previously, which makes it that much more interesting to discuss

Not in Sportsbetting  for me either - i know there have been cases, moreso with slots, whereby casinos say that certain plays (bet sizes/games) were very similar to others. 

[Jbl2099]

I tried to explain that this may be the reason for their decision, but according to them, they believe her Swedish was good enough to be understood (Which actually made my mother happy to hear, cause its a first )

 

The offer of 2000 SEK to settle was as a goodwill gesture (I believe due to my involvement in the gaming industry) and in no way a change of their opinion in this matter, they believe they have made a correct decision.

 

I guess it is was it is, for anyone placing bets over there, make sure you remember which bets you placed even after 10 days as it might require you to complete a quiz to get your funds.

[pinnit2015]

Back in 2004 I was one of the lucky ones to pick Greece as outsider for Euros.

 

Can’t remember replying ‘a vision came to me in my sleep and/or UEFA have rigged it’ when I collected :-)

[cocopop3011]

I tried to explain that this may be the reason for their decision, but according to them, they believe her Swedish was good enough to be understood (Which actually made my mother happy to hear, cause its a first )

 

The offer of 2000 SEK to settle was as a goodwill gesture (I believe due to my involvement in the gaming industry) and in no way a change of their opinion in this matter, they believe they have made a correct decision.

 

I guess it is was it is, for anyone placing bets over there, make sure you remember which bets you placed even after 10 days as it might require you to complete a quiz to get your funds.

 

So, your mum has taken the goodwill gesture? I guess it's better than nothing and thanks for bring this topic to the forum another prime example of the pathetic terms casinos will impose!

[Jbl2099]

No, she didn´t take the goodwill. It´s a matter of principle and accepting such gesture would mean accepting the outcome and such behaviour.

 

Will have to do a formal complaint to their license provider EMTA, but do not really have any high hopes that they will look in to it too much. 

[pinnit2015]

To digress - makes you wonder that if Estonia can have a licensing body, why can't Australia (actually I lie - we all know that a government seeks to ban something because it simply has not thought of how it's going to tax it  )

 

I've never even heard of the EMTA so not sure what their policies/cultures/reputation is/are like. I'm always skeptical about why certain places would opt for certain licences and not, say MGA. 

[Afi4wins]

Asian casinos, for example, prefer to cater for the local countries only, for several reasons, so they certainly do not need or want MGA or UKGC licences.

 

The way they operate, mostly via direct banking and credit/debit cards, are very convenient for the casinos. No need for KYC procedures, payments are super fast, and customers love this, including myself. Not only that, the less stringent measures, rules and so on make it easier for casinos to operate and manage - for better or for worse, but mostly worse I'm afraid! So, I would only rely on Philippines licensed casinos to play at, as they are more established, slightly more 'reliable', but not much difference from Curacao, I would say. 

 

IMHO, Aussies are mostly 'white' or caucasian oriented, although the country is in the Asia-Pacific region, but I guess they would prefer to follow what other similar caucasian countries are doing, like the US. I'm only presuming of course, I'm not a politician, and I simply hate politics too!    

[pinnit2015]

Sports betting is legal now there though: though iv heard banks are closing accounts that have casino related activity.

 

It’s like the dark ages

[Afi4wins]

All local banks in my country do not accept any money transfers from gambling houses either, except for a very few licensed operators, so these casinos use camouflaged accounts instead, changing them every now and then to avoid being too obvious. Not that banks don't know, but as long as the banking regulations are not broken, they don't really care! 

[ValDes]

Hello there and welcome to AskGamblers. 

 

As usual, I would try to focus on the particular terms affecting the situation which are telling the following... 

 

 

3. Your obligations as a player

 

3.1 Declarations and Warranties

 

You hereby declare and warrant that:

 

3.1.1 You are at least 18 years of age for purpose of playing in the Sports, Virtual Sports, Casino, Live Casino, Poker or any of the Jackpot Games offered on the website. Under the laws applicable to You, You are allowed to participate in the Games offered on the Website and that gambling is allowed in your country of residence.

 

3.1.1.2 For Estonian residents You are at least 18 years of age for purpose of playing Sports or at least 21 years of age for purpose of playing Casino, Live Casino, Jackpot Games, Virtual Sports, Poker and, under the laws applicable to You, You are allowed to participate in the Games offered on the Website.

 

3.1.2 You will use the Website and your Member Account solely and exclusively for the purpose of Your genuine participating in the Games and not for any financial or other operations. Your participation in the Games will be strictly in Your personal non-professional capacity for recreational and entertainment reasons only;

 

3.1.3 You participate in the Games on Your own behalf and not on behalf of any other person;

 

Since you were kind enough to describe the entire situation in details, it's is pretty obvious your mom did not quite participated in the games on her behalf only, but was rather using your advice and tips and so on. Which in my humble opinion could be considered as a violation of the term quoted above in red or at least leave the whole situation opened for different interpretations.  

 

The key moment here though is the fact that your mom failed to explain/describe the bets she made and that was most probably the fact used by the casino operator to justify violation of term #3.1.3 and act accordingly and confiscate winnings. To be honest, if that was a AGCCS case I would do the same and reject the complaint. 

 

Hope the above makes sense. 

[Fiekie247]

All local banks in my country do not accept any money transfers from gambling houses either, except for a very few licensed operators, so these casinos use camouflaged accounts instead, changing them every now and then to avoid being too obvious. Not that banks don't know, but as long as the banking regulations are not broken, they don't really care! 

Well Online Gambling is kinda illegal in my country as well especially for international casinos. However Sports/Horse betting etc is allowed.

Only local operators like silversands casino etc are "allowed" to be played at online in my country

 

However, I had received a couple of wire transfers and withdrawals to my bank account and CC from international casinos liek Unique, Videoslots, Casumo, Casino Heroes and even Slotsfighter. But I mostly transfer money from Neteller to my bank account.

 

Ofcourse I need to declare the transactions and say where the funds are coming from, most of the time, I will just state it as a gift and its fine, but its never really huge amounts, the biggest amount was about $1500 euros, I think anything above $2000 euro will raise flags with the tax man.

 

So far nothing has happened, I work for 1 of the top 5 law firms in my country and got some info from them as well. I will never get arrested or anything, the  reserve bank can at their discretion maybe just confiscate my funds/winnings or something.

 

Which is why I use the international master card which was link to my Neteller or the Ecopayz one.

 

Now both those e wallet cards are gone, so now I have to use Wire transfer more often for my winnings. Neteller takes up to 12 business day to receive that damnnn SWIFT, which is why I withdraw straight from the casino.

[Fiekie247]

 

 To be honest, if that was a AGCCS case I would do the same and reject the complaint. 

 

 

At least now I know who's the one who would reject my complaint, if one day I ever use the facility.. Even though you'll talk on behalf of AG as in "We" rejected the complaint...

[ValDes]

At least now I know who's the one who would reject my complaint, if one day I ever use the facility.. Even though you'll talk on behalf of AG as in "We" rejected the complaint...

 

When it comes to AGCCS it is the AskGamblers Support & Complaints Team who's in charge.  

 

I'm only playing the role of a consultant occasionally and obviously unable to 'influence' any of your recent or future AGCCS cases...  

[daenyboi]

Was actually about to register here today at Coolbet and play some bets on todays FIFA matches.

 

Now im unsure, really unsure.

 

Hate crappy casinos/sportsbooks trying their best to scam customers, ***** payup cause ur winning in the end no matter what.

 

LOL