Where to discuss the possibility of rigged tables?

[Flaxen]

Hello,

I have played big stake Live Roulette for a year and I`m so sure it is rigged. I have seen the ball take the most amazing spins possible. I know its kinetic energy and the ball will spin and change direction, but some of the jumps are not possible in my opinion. For instance I have played my three numbers for one hour,  bust and then without exagerating my 3 numbers come the following three spins in a row. What are the odds?But I might just be unlucky..

 

However after chasing an answer from Betsafe how I can be certain the casino is not rigged and onlyd reciving half answeres What I have found out my self is;

1. Live VIP Casino in Riga offered by Betsafe amongst others is not concidered a casino in their home country Latvia, only a video studio. So local authorities will and do not regulate them. 

2. Alderny G C does not regulate this Casino/ video stream after installed like Live Support always will refer to if you challenge them.

3. It is 100% impossible to find any reports of control etc of this video studio/ casino.

4. I accuse the casino of manipulating results by magnets or whatever to make the ball hit the number with least payout. How? very easy, there are plenty of pattents available. 

5. Evolution Gaming/ the video studio always knows bets before ball lands, so easy math will show what numbers to not hit.

6. Evoultion Gaming makes more money the more people loose. Is that right if they are not a Casino? Should they at all be allowed a percentege not just a set amount every month?

7. After chasing an answer here my acount was blocked and from VIP(being invited to trips to Malta, France, Dublin etc) I`?m suddenly blocked out from all.

8. I have chased answers here diretly with CEO etc, and never an answer.

9. How is it possible that not one local authority in Riga performs any control of this casino. 

10. I now play for a different company, and have chased the same answer there. They hide behind ECOGRA sela of approval? Well this Live casino stream does not come up on teh selal of approval list, so how can a company offering this game say they have the Seal of approval?

 

If anyone out there can please inform me of any controls etc of these video streams etc it would be most aprechiated.

 

I apologize for some misspelling, not fluent in written english.

 

If anyone has some info heer it owuld be so aprechiated.

 

Kind regards A

 

 

 

 

 

[cocopop3011]

Hello Flaxen and welcome to the forum

 

So basically what you are saying here 

 

 

 

For instance I have played my three numbers for one hour,  bust and then without exagerating my 3 numbers come the following three spins in a row. What are the odds?

 

Is that the game is rigged just for you and your particular numbers?

 

I don't play roulette so it's hard for me to really pass an honest opinion however when casinos such as Betsafe come into play I can assure you that their games certainly are NOT rigged.

 

And I have to ask....

 

 

 

I have played big stake Live Roulette for a year and I`m so sure it is rigged.

 

This is a huge contradiction. Why would you even bother depositing your hard earned money if you honestly believed the games were rigged?

 

In answer to your post I think you are just having a spout of bad luck! Is it only roulette you play?

[Flaxen]

Well, I know Roulette is a loosing game.

However what about all the factors I mention;

 

Why is there a videostudio in Latvia(not concidered a casino by local gouvernment) offered to players by casino in Malta which again is not regulating this studio?

If you ask any of the involved parties around evolution gaming there are different answers regarding responsability for controls etc.

Take Unibet for instance, they refer to Ecogra as the control company of EVG. However ask ECOGRA and they refer to NMI? And ask for some documentation regarding controls of the EVG Video studio, it is impossible to find.

If nobody controls them, why should they not cheat and rig the game?

And if they are not concidered a casino, why are they even included in bets and money transfers? 

[bradztheman]

You know what, i couldn't agree more!!

 

After playing live roulette on ladbrokes, 10 years or so i have come to the decision it is infact a scam. I agree with the magnets/air/suction theory. Yes, you can win spins, but what i found very interesting is when the new dealer comes along. Most of the time, i lose the first few spins, but what has made my mind up for me, more than anything, is THE WAY THE BALL LANDS!! I used to love betting on sections of the wheel, mainly voisins, and also doing thirds (ie, top and middle row, or first and second dozen no's 1 - 24)

By doing sections, ur meant to get 67.5 percent chance of winning or so, its unreal how many times i lose when placing this bet, and when losing on the bet, when the ball lands in say no 35 for example, a higher number than 1 to 24 its amazing how to ball just suddenly drops, like glue!! No skimming in and out of number etc. Very strange landings in my opinion. Am i right in saying the betting compabies like paddypower, ladbrokes, coral, use the same studio's, which are based where you said, and like you said, 'why' are they based there!? Its obvious. They obviously get a cut of your winnings. I noticed when ever i make a complaint on the chat, there is always a pitboss from the company your betting with, and you wonder why? Because they have an influence, i think in this day and age, all they have to do is press a number on 'their' computer screen and it will land in it. I once placed £500 on black, and amazing to their favour, the ball literally landed in black 10 and some how scooped itself out and the last second and landed in red!? Strange how i never see this happen to me if i were to bet on red. Its annoyed me so much now im just going to stay clear of it. Its so rigged its unreal.

[blondie]

Well I am from Latvia and there are two studios in Riga. I have been to both of those studios and I can assure you that there are no magnets etc and nothing is rigged. And while local authorities don't regulate these studios, everything happens according to procedures that are regulated by the software providers. So in your case it is just bad luck.

[lovepain]

[Admin Edit]: Post removed due to multiple violations of Forum Rules! 

[blondie]

Well I don't work for Evolution Gaming so your comment that I'm being fraudulent was completely unnecessary. The thing is, when people lose they think that everything is rigged or manipulated and I can't say that for rogue softwares (which Evolution Gaming isn't) it is not true.

[pinnit2015]

Tin Foil hats at the ready. 

 

To think a game is rigged and continue to deposit is just mental. 

[ValDes]

[Admin Edit]: Post removed due to multiple violations of Forum Rules! 

 

Your brutal attitude towards forum members is totally unacceptable and your account has just been banned for multiple violations of the Forum Rules! 

[Tunabake]

There is something weird going on at evolution gaming I have experienced it first hand. many people are complaining about the same issues I played for an entire night slowly winning my money back then when I was somewhere near breaking even it all switched. They swapped dealer part way through the other dealers time period at an odd time to some older guy not one of the regular workers then every thing changed I would have been playing for 7/8 hours plus and what seemed like thousands of hands of cards slowly catching up befor I lost it all in in a few mins. I would have lost almost every hand of poker from then on. There is no way I can prove that they somehow manulated the game but that was the forth time a loss like this had occurred each time sending me bust causing me to deposit more money, each time I changed game thinking it was just my luck but the way the cards came out the last time was not random the dealer got so many straights and straight flushes I finally realised I was being hustled this whole time. Randomly shuffled cards don't get spat out in order or number that often after 7/8 hours of playing card games I started to realise I was being hustled.

[cocopop3011]

There is something weird going on at evolution gaming I have experienced it first hand. many people are complaining about the same issues I played for an entire night slowly winning my money back then when I was somewhere near breaking even it all switched. They swapped dealer part way through the other dealers time period at an odd time to some older guy not one of the regular workers then every thing changed I would have been playing for 7/8 hours plus and what seemed like thousands of hands of cards slowly catching up befor I lost it all in in a few mins. I would have lost almost every hand of poker from then on. There is no way I can prove that they somehow manulated the game but that was the forth time a loss like this had occurred each time sending me bust causing me to deposit more money, each time I changed game thinking it was just my luck but the way the cards came out the last time was not random the dealer got so many straights and straight flushes I finally realised I was being hustled this whole time. Randomly shuffled cards don't get spat out in order or number that often after 7/8 hours of playing card games I started to realise I was being hustled.

 

But dear, why would a huge provider like Evolution Gaming need to manipulate their games? Just sit down and actually think about that question before you answer,

[Tunabake]

It all seems legit, my issue was with swapping out dealer to some old guy who kicked my *****. I totally get what your saying it was most likely bad luck or act of god lol I lost hard and fast. Some of us are sore losers

[cocopop3011]

It all seems legit, my issue was with swapping out dealer to some old guy who kicked my *****. I totally get what your saying it was most likely bad luck or act of god lol I lost hard and fast. Some of us are sore losers

 

 

There are a lot of sore losers about dear, you don't seem like one though 

[Flaxen]

Ok, so this is what I have asked EVG directly about.

If any pride left in them they should pick up and come back with some response..

 

Hello,

 

I represent a Norwegian group of gamblers looking into all potential fraud etc that is going on in the world of gambling.

 

From what I can see Evolution has a kind of good reputation amongst people most, however there are quite a lot of accusations online about magnetic roulette tables etc.

And I can not find any proof of you rigging or not rigging games.

 

So I would like you to answer and inform a little around the following;

 

1. How is it you claim AGCC regulates games in progress, while they claim they do not? Should I believe them or you?

2. And if they do not regulate games in progress, who does? Some of your employees say it is yourself. That would be very convenient if you are responsible for monitoring your own scam(if a scam) of course.

3. There are so many videos on Youtube of insane ball spins from your games. Why do you never comment them? What can you possibly win on not addressing all of the complaints? I understand of course if your games are rigged....

4. If you look at the video https://youtu.be/SmHxduvjOvE you see a ball stuck in the midle of a pocket. I have now looked at close to 1 million roulette spins and this is new yo me.

Could you please enlighten me in how it is possible?

5. You operate in Latvia on a licence from Malta. So how can MGA make sure you do not cheat?

 

My theory is;

1. You and all operators make more money, the more we players loose. 

2. So by making sure table never pays out the biggest wins you increase your profit. 

3. Of course there will be winners, all the "penny gamblers" And the more they win the higher their . stakes are. And suddenly they are gambling for serious money and then you take it all back and then some. 

 

Please prove me wrong. If you do not use magnets etc to increase winnings, please show me. Hold a magnet next to ball. Do something.

 

I assure you that I will not rest this case before I am proven wrong or right.

At some point some media channel from either Norway, UK or some place else will look into this. And then 

Your company structure combined with no communication with complaints will draw more and more attention. i admit it is perfect. Have a unregulated videostudio in Riga, but gamblers play online, but through Malta....

So if a scam, who is responsible to find out?

And when caught? EVG goes under, all operators exist, and you start same studio under different name.

 

So a tour of the house would be great, is that possible to arrange?

If not, why not? 

Then can we plaese organize a magnet next to the ball on the different tables?

 

For being in the industry you are I hope you take this and me seriously. Operating a bit more open is a good plan if you are not rigged..

 

If I do not have some real feedback from you by the end of Friday I will create an email with videos, pictures, stats etc and send it to all papers and TV channels in Eurpoe and the US. At some point I promise someone will pick up the thread and find this a very very good story if true.

800 million NOK was spent on advertising in Norway by different operators. That says enough about your totale revenue in Norway....

And then there is the rest of the gambling world.

 

So please prove me wrong, or I will start a real hunt on EVG. And I will win in the end...

 

 

Kind regards.

[Flaxen]

But dear, why would a huge provider like Evolution Gaming need to manipulate their games? Just sit down and actually think about that question before you answer,

 

Please read my letter to EVG further down, there you will find answers to this. But in short terms;

1. To make more money. GREED

2. Based on info from EVG they regulate and monitor games in progress themselves. So that means that nobody comes to make sure all is legit. 

3. if there has ever been a control, ehy is it so hard to show some documentatio n?

 

i suggest you think a litte before you answer. The world is full of scamming and cheating. The President of USA most likely chetated to get where he is now. But you say a shady company in Riga is so unlikely to cheat?

[LeoDubbed]

This is a kinda topic that has no end/ bottomless pit. I believe all casino games are designed in the advantage of the house, the games are not perfect to us but yet they are to the casinos. When you're gambling, prepare to lose because winning is just a matter of luck. Your win is other people's losses, the house? Always win!

If your numbers don't came a lot or never, I recommend bingo games

[bradztheman]

I replied around a year ago, i’m glad i have come back to this thread and glad to see it still going strong...

 

Even after watching the countless youtube videos of strange ball landings, i have stupidly continued to play live roulette from the same studio’s.

 

If you now own a iPhone 7, the good thing is you can screen record. So while users play roulette on their phones, hopefully more people will be recording these obscene ball landings!!

 

I really hope something is done about this, and somehow they get exploited!!

 

Like i say, i only play roulette and i have seen thousands if not millions of spins on the live roulette to now know that its fixed!! Not saying its ‘always’ fixed but at times it is.

I have asked what type of ball they use, and their responce was ivolene ball. This ball usually in most cases lands solidly, as its heavy. The amount of times when i have been on voisins the way the ball looks as if its going to solidly land in the area and suddenly scatters and blows over the the complete opposite side looping in and out of numbers!! This type of ball does NOT do that!! It lands heavily most times, its very strange.

In most cases when i have nearly lost all of my money, i will do a smallish bet on orphalines, like £15 or something, and it will come in, knowing it was my last bet, number 1 or 17 would come in, as it knows it has completely dicked me and it wants to give me some sort of hope.

 

The amount of times ive had silly wins though, like 8,9 wins in a row (on a 50/50 bet) and then lose the next 20 spins in a row is not uncommon, almost like it gets you up to give you some hope, then completely d1cks you!!

 

Dont get me wrong i know i can pull away at any time but i have seen some very strange patterns developing!!

[funkyt111]

Mate, I could not agree with more with what you have said. Without trying to come across like I’m paranoid or bitter, i am absolutely certain that the live casino is fixed.

 

First of all the roulette,

 

The way the ball bounces sometimes is completely un-natural for a free moving ball. I also have witnessed it move bizarrely across the other side of the table when covering sections. I have covered every section on the table except a small section of four numbers and 4-5 spins in a row that very small section comes in

 

I too have come down to my last 20 pound in my account and all of a sudden on a small bet I just so happen to win? I have noticed this pattern on several occasions and I can predict when it’s gonna happen.

 

How many tiles have you covered a section say 31 round to 2 and 14 or 25 (one number outside the section) just so happens to drop?

 

When the casino wants you to win then you’ll win. When it wants you to lose then you’ll lose and I feel almost stupid having spent so much knowing deep down on several occasions that the casino is in complete control. I feel even more stupid knowing there’s not much I can do about it.

 

Anyway, onto live blackjack

 

I am certain that the casino knows exactly which cards are coming out and have bots/pretend players sat at tables to influence the outcome. There is a video on YouTube which uses similar systems to evo gaming where the dealer is caught taking the card underneath and it just so happens that the dealer wins this hand.

 

There have been god knows how many times where I’ve been sat at a table and all of a sudden despite be watching that table have no players for 10 mins, as soon as I sit down, someone else sits down too. Guess what? I lost that hand. However, if he had not had sat down I would have won big on the 21+3. Give it a try on

live blackjack, and watch how random players sit down for one hand, then go and come back, move around the table. It’s the casino. I’m sure of it.

[kelapa]

I have been playing Evolution's live roulette on and off for a good ten months now.

It is absolutely 100% rigged.

 

Reading the experiences of funkyt111 and bradztheman is like they took a xerox copy of my exact experiences. But I'm happy to share a few of my own.

 

1.

I normally don't bet on colours, but I thought I'd give them a try.

I steadily bet on black every round. The first four all land on red. Fine, red streak. It happens. I persist.

When it falls on red for the TWENTIETH consecutive round, I finally surrender.

It goes on to form a streak of 31 reds in a row before things return to normal again.

 

So yes, this streak started exactly when I began my one and only stretch of betting on a colour.

And this was probably the least weird experience out of the ones I'm about to post here.

 

2.

I don't like gambling. I really don't.

So I figured I'd minimize my risks by putting roughly the same amount on both 2nd12 and 3rd12.

 

I did this 10 times in a row. To my surprise, all 10 rounds the ball fell on 1-12.

 

I was already getting suspicious of Evolution by then, so I thought I'd do two more rounds WITH an additional extra amount on 6-12... leaving ONLY 1-6 uncovered.

These two rounds, the ball dropped on 3 and on 5.

 

3.

A week or two ago, I foolishly gave them another go.

I covered ALL of tier and orphelins plus zero game... except the number 5. When the ball was already spinning, I noticed I'd accidentally somehow left that number blank. Of course, already being suspicious, I held my breath and feared the worst.

 

Indeed. It fell on 5.

 

I laughed, shook my head, still somewhat in denial.

I hit repeat.

 

It falls on 5 again.

 

My eyes widen with disbelief. But I hit repeat again.

 

It falls on 5 for the third time in a row.

 

4.

Sick of constantly losing, I brashly cover the ENTIRE wheel except the numbers 11 36 13 27 6 34 17 and 25.

 

It falls on those numbers four times in a row.

 

I skip a round to see what happens. It lands somewhere on the opposite end of the wheel.

So I try again.

 

It falls on the same eight numbers again, for another four times in a row.

 

I give up. The ball immediately starts landing elsewhere again.

[bradztheman]

Kelapa i feel your pain!

 

I too bet the same ways you do.

 

What gets me, is if you bet the colour black repeatedly, chances are you’ll only win 3 in a row, maybe 4, ive never won anymore than 5 or 6 50/50 bets in a row, yet unbelievably ive seen a large number of the opposite colour come in ALOT, im talking 10/15 reds when betting on black. Strang how that happens, yet if i was betting on red every single time i certainly wodnt win 10/15 reds in a row, it wouldnt allow you to, yet it allows you to lose this many times!!

 

I also bet on voisins, the amount of times ive literally seen the ball about to land around number 15,4,19 it floats (or gets blown across by air) straight over to tiers section and lands on number 10!!

 

Also the amount of times when betting on orphalins (you get more back on number 1 and 17) its about to land on number 1 but somehow lands on number 33 tiers. Unbeleivable.

 

Some outcomes i find unbelievable and find myself shouting and cursing at the thing!!

 

I have been watching the wheel while it spins and seen the croupier pushing against the side wood on the table also, which i find strange.

 

Another thing is, i had £800 in my account, was playing on roulette and decided to go on the slots, which i dont usually play, i went on God of storms Age of Gods, it gave me a really big win, around £800, now for some reason my balance disappeared, and the amount of stakes spins i was making disappeared, so i went back out of the game, and re logged in, still couldnt see my balance at the bottom, or the spin stakes, so to my knowledge i was only making £5.00 total spins, 10p lines 25 lines, next thing you know i had a balance of £1500, went to make a spin and it said ‘insufficient funds to make spin, deposit?’ I WAS GOBBSMACKED!! i checked my recent gaming history and it said i was making £50 spins!! Funny how it hid my balance once my balance went over £1000! Not happy!

[kelapa]

Looks like everyone that has anything to say about Evolution roulette has exactly the same stories:

- Playing two dozens => ball always fall on the other dozen

- Playing 80% of all numbers => ball always falls on the other 20%

- Ball makes very strange jumps (not just your usual carambole effect)

 

About that last thing... I did a little experiment to confirm that.

I played about ten, maybe fifteen rounds, and with each round I chipped more numbers.

As usual, I kept losing, losing and losing. But the weirdest thing was the ball. The more numbers I chipped, the fewer losing numbers it had to land on, the crazier its jumps became. There was a very clear increase in ball acrobatics as I filled up the table. It looked like a cat on a hot roof, frankly.

 

By the time that I had chipped 30 of the 37 numbers, I just started laughing out loud at the sight of it. The ball bounced back and forth insanely, not in smooth curves, but with strange jerks in opposite directions. Then it would stop dead whenever it found one of the remaining few losing numbers, and drop there.

[agood1963]

I believe all online roulette games are fixed , i have tried lots even with the big bookmakers . If you play regular you get to know when the ball will not land on your numbers . As you stated the run of the ball runs in funny directions and when it stops suddenly you are on to a loser . I keep of them now . These should be band .

[cocopop3011]

I believe all online roulette games are fixed , i have tried lots even with the big bookmakers . If you play regular you get to know when the ball will not land on your numbers . As you stated the run of the ball runs in funny directions and when it stops suddenly you are on to a loser . I keep of them now . These should be band .

 

 

I'm glad you finished your post telling us that you don't play them any more because it really boggles me when people believe these games are "fixed" as you call it but yet still play them 

 

Welcome to the forum though, we welcome everyone's opinion we just may not always agree with it 

[kelapa]

I'm glad you finished your post telling us that you don't play them any more because it really boggles me when people believe these games are "fixed" as you call it but yet still play them 

 

Welcome to the forum though, we welcome everyone's opinion we just may not always agree with it 

Well, have a peek at the two spins in this video.

 

 

Note how both times the ball lands on a winning area, pretty safely surrounded by other winning numbers on both sides, but then decides to go for a walk.

The second spin is especially typical: the ball clearly lands on 32, then calmly ambles over to the nearest losing number and stops there.

 

Now imagine this happening every single round that you play, without exception.

You would start scratching your head as much as anyone.

[cocopop3011]

I've watched the video twice but I can't really see it clearly from what I can see it just looks perfectly normal however I'm not a roulette player.

 

Anyone else have an opinion on this video?