King Billy Casino, terms and conditions on Cash back policy???

[niran]

this is what I got from my vip rep! 

'Thursday Cashback' Bonus conditions:

• The minimum net loss amount* (minus issued bonus and withdrawal sum) placed in the period from Thursday 00:00 till Wednesday 23:59 is €/$500 (750AU$/CAD); 
• The minimum deposits sum placed in the period from Thursday 00:00 till Wednesday 23:59 is €/$500 (750AU$/CAD);
• The refund is calculated using the formula for my status: (pot** - winning amount - received bonuses***) × 0.1; 
• Unavailable for Cryptocurrencies; 
• Wager Free / No Max Win; 
• net loss* = (total bet amount - total winning bet amount);
  pot** is the total bet sum;
  received bonuses***: the cashback bonus for the previous week, 'points for money' bonus, and canceled bonuses are not taken in count.

the max Cashback I can get is 7500, now looking at my bet history last week my total bet was $774,342.47 cad, and I won 80k, I also withdrew 8k but I deposited the 8k back!  but mind you guys I lost it all. so isn't the math

(774,342.47-80,000-0)×.1= 76,634.25 CAD  today I got $697 dollars, I should of got $7500, right? can anyone help me with this please??










 

 

[Afi4wins]

Hi Niran.

Another player had a similar cashback issue some months back as well. As you can see, the formula for calculating the cashback is your (Total Bet Sum, minus all winning amounts during play, minus all bonuses received) x 0.1.

I don't know if that 80k winnings included all the winnings for each and every spin during your play session, but that is actually what would be counted in the formula, not just the final winning amount.

Your 8k withdrawal and 8k redeposit would and should have been included in that total bet sum amount.

[niran]

I play baccarat live, and if you look at the screen shot my total bet on oct 29 2020 was 627,748k.. so the math would still be around 700k - 80k - 0 (bonus) *10 = 75k... and I can only get 7500 max, so am I right on this, sir?

[ValDes]

Hi there @niran, 

Could you please attach a screenshot showing clearly ALL the cashback offer details... Asking about that cause I don't see anywhere within your post how is the Net Loss stat involved into the cashback formula and mind you, that's the most important part when calculating any cashback   It is exactly the Net Loss which will determine your cashback amount eventually. 

[niran]

6 hours ago, ValDes said:

Hi there @niran, 

Could you please attach a screenshot showing clearly ALL the cashback offer details... Asking about that cause I don't see anywhere within your post how is the Net Loss stat involved into the cashback formula and mind you, that's the most important part when calculating any cashback   It is exactly the Net Loss which will determine your cashback amount eventually. 

 

[ValDes]

Hi again, 

Have just spoke with their AskGamblers Account manager who will ping their casino rep asap and ask him to jump in here with more details and try to assist you.

Stay tuned. 

[niran]

this is the last reply they sent me, about the Cashback Bonus details.

[niran]

9 hours ago, ValDes said:

Hi there @niran, 

Could you please attach a screenshot showing clearly ALL the cashback offer details... Asking about that cause I don't see anywhere within your post how is the Net Loss stat involved into the cashback formula and mind you, that's the most important part when calculating any cashback   It is exactly the Net Loss which will determine your cashback amount eventually. 

what do you mean by net loss? can you explain that to me even further I'm a newbie to online casino terminology. thanks!

[niran]

14 hours ago, Afi4wins said:

Hi Niran.

Another player had a similar cashback issue some months back as well. As you can see, the formula for calculating the cashback is your (Total Bet Sum, minus all winning amounts during play, minus all bonuses received) x 0.1.

I don't know if that 80k winnings included all the winnings for each and every Spin during your play session, but that is actually what would be counted in the formula, not just the final winning amount.

Your 8k withdrawal and 8k redeposit would and should have been included in that total bet sum amount.

I actually play baccarat on evolution gaming, so luckily they have all of my bet history which I have individually screen shot! so that week my total bet sum was 775k, and the winning amount which I actually won and seen in my balance was around give or take 75k total for that week. thanks for helping me out, it means so much to me, I can't thank you enough and AskGamblers.com!! 

[Afi4wins]

2 hours ago, niran said:

I actually play Baccarat on Evolution Gaming, so luckily they have all of my bet history which I have individually screen shot! so that week my total bet sum was 775k, and the winning amount which I actually won and seen in my balance was around give or take 75k total for that week. thanks for helping me out, it means so much to me, I can't thank you enough and AskGamblers.com!! 

You're most welcome Niran.

Net Loss, as indicated to you by your VIP manager, is your total bet amount minus the total winning amount, made during the valid period of time (week).

[niran]

22 hours ago, Afi4wins said:

You're most welcome Niran.

Net Loss, as indicated to you by your VIP manager, is your total bet amount minus the total winning amount, made during the valid period of time (week).

Hey Afi4wins,

After hours of taking meticulous screen shots of all my previous bets, and going through each bet one by one I have found the answer! also you super helped can't deny the facts!!

So for the week of oct 28, 2020 to Nov, 2 2020:

total bet sum=$779,916.15 CAD,       Total winning amount=$329,840.92 CAD     so, (779,916.15-329,840.92-0)*0.1= 45k since my max weekly Cashback is $7500 CAD that is what I'm owed

And now I have come to find  out the last week I didn't get paid the full  Cashback, I got paid $4200   from 0ct 21 to oct 27:

Total bet sum =  $678, 355.2 CAD             winning on bet= $285,968.20 CAD

(678,355.20-285,968.20-0)*0.1= 39k , so my Cashback should of been $7500 CAD but was $4200 CAD.

so I'm owed 7500-4200= $3300 CAD for oct 21 to 27, 2020

7500-697= $6803CAD for oct28 to Nov 2, 2020

 

If it wasn't for you and  ask gamblers I don't know how I would of figured this out, but hey I guess its good karma, I guess!! the reason I chose King Billy was because they won the AskGamblers award last year!! let's see if the GREAT KING BILLY  WILL HONOUR HIS PRINCE!!! 

 

Sincerely,

 

Niran Kali

 

 

[Afi4wins]

King Billy is one of my favourite casinos and I surely wish and hope that they will sort out this issue for you Niran. That's a lot of cashback money involved, but the amount of bets you've made is even more UNBELIEVABLE! 

Aaaaah...that's life without money problems I guess... 

[niran]

On 11/7/2020 at 3:55 AM, Afi4wins said:

King Billy is one of my favourite casinos and I surely wish and hope that they will sort out this issue for you Niran. That's a lot of cashback money involved, but the amount of bets you've made is even more UNBELIEVABLE! 

Aaaaah...that's life without money problems I guess... 

 

[Afi4wins]

I usually and mostly play my slot games with 15 too...15 cents! 

[ValDes]

5 hours ago, niran said:

Hey Afi4wins,

After hours of taking meticulous screen shots of all my previous bets, and going through each bet one by one I have found the answer! also you super helped can't deny the facts!!

So for the week of oct 28, 2020 to Nov, 2 2020:

total bet sum=$779,916.15 CAD,       Total winning amount=$329,840.92 CAD     so, (779,916.15-329,840.92-0)*0.1= 45k since my max weekly Cashback is $7500 CAD that is what I'm owed

And now I have come to find  out the last week I didn't get paid the full  Cashback, I got paid $4200   from 0ct 21 to oct 27:

Total bet sum =  $678, 355.2 CAD             winning on bet= $285,968.20 CAD

(678,355.20-285,968.20-0)*0.1= 39k , so my Cashback should of been $7500 CAD but was $4200 CAD.

so I'm owed 7500-4200= $3300 CAD for oct 21 to 27, 2020

7500-697= $6803CAD for oct28 to Nov 2, 2020

If it wasn't for you and  ask gamblers I don't know how I would of figured this out, but hey I guess its good karma, I guess!! the reason I chose King Billy was because they won the AskGamblers award last year!! lets see if the great KING BILLY  WILL HONOUR HIS PRINCE!!! 

Sincerely,

Niran Kali

Hmm, sincerely doubt a reputable and well respected casino operator such KingBilly will make such a drastic error in the own cashback calculations. 

Strongly encourage you to wait for the response of their rep here which I hope will be provided asap. 

[niran]

10 hours ago, ValDes said:

Hmm, sincerely doubt a reputable and well respected casino operator such KingBilly will make such a drastic error in the own cashback calculations. 

Strongly encourage you to wait for the response of their rep here which I hope will be provided asap. 

I have about 88 screen shots, of those two weeks of every bet like the one above that I showed you. if you want I could post all the screen shots here with the denomination of winning sum at the top. should I do that? sometimes mistakes happen!

[niran]

I just want to clarify and  explain so everyone can see and understand how I came to my  conclusion with the results as stated above! I went on evolution gaming baccarat and clicked on the history tab,  then scrolled down to the dates of Oct 28, 2020 - Nov 02, 2020.  I then took screen shots, and added all the winning amounts on the right. So as I am taking screen shots, I make sure that  the  bet at the very top of the history is added to the next screen shot at the bottom of the history, to prove that I'm not forging or hiding information, and proof of continuity!!

So on these screen shots, I am starting from Oct 21, 2020, and at the top of the history you will see 11:04:26 am baccarat, bet=$700 CAD, win=$700 CAD. On this screen shot I added the total winning amount = $8186.75 CAD,  and highlighted it at the top of the screen.

The next screen shot as I take them, you will see 11:04:26 am at the bottom, and I don't include that bet  in the addition of winning amounts, because I've already added it on the last screen shot. Now if I lost, clearly it's not a winning amount, so it doesn't matter, but I still show that loss for proof of continuity! The total for that second screen shot  total winning amount = $6947.50 CAD, as highlighted.

I did this procedure all the way up, adding every winning amount, I have 88 screen shots in total for the two weeks, like the examples below!! it took me hours and hours of work, but I had to do it! Otherwise, what's a claim without proof, right?  And again I gamble one at a time and only play baccarat  with funds I deposit!

I just want to thank AskGamblers for providing a great service! And  indeed, indebted to you guys!!

 

 

 

 

[michaliskingbilly]

Dear AskGamblers Forum,

 First of all, let us point out the difference of Niran as a King Billy player. By his King Billy title (Prince), Niran easily ranks in the 99,99^th percentile of our population, being one of less than 50 Princes and Princesses among many hundreds of thousands of Kingdom Citizens.

 And he has reached this status by being with us only since around St Patrick’s Day this year.

 Way to go and Long Live Prince Niran!

 Regarding the issue with the cashback formula calculation: Dear AskGamblers, we have sent you screenshots from our files, describing the exact situation (formula and player’s total bets and wins). This data verifies that the Prince’s cashback has been calculated correctly, down to a decimal (unfortunately, it is also sensitive data, which we cannot post in public).

 Dear AskGamblers, after checking the data, please verify that we have done everything correctly. His Majesty King Billy would never like us, the King’s Servants, to displease one of his most favorite Princes (people have been fed to the King’s insatiable dragon Sloto for lesser offenses)!

 Thank you,

 The King Billy Team

[niran]

Dear ask Gamblers,

 

What does total winning bet amount mean: Well if I'm gambling on live baccarat and I bet $1500, and I win, I get back $3000, because when I made that initial bet   of 1500 it was withdrawn from my balance and won $3000, so my winning bet is $1500

  So my total Bet sum= $1500,            My total winning bet amount = $3000              My total winning amount = $1500

?????

 

[ValDes]

Hi there @michaliskingbilly and thanks for jumping in and providing a public response to your player. Your assistance is appreciated. 

I would like to use the occasion thou and remind you that unlike the discussions we are having dedicated to open AGCCS cases, this is an open public forum topic where one of your most loyal players (obviously) raised certain concerns regarding your cashback offer. And unlike the AGCCS process where AskGamblers Complaint Team would usually come up with a final decision based on the gathered facts, info and evidence during the complaints process, here at the forum, you are in fact strongly encouraged to engage with an open discussion with your player and try to explain in as many details as possible that could help everyone following this particular forum topic what happened, why it happened and why you believe your actions were totally correct, etc etc.  

Dear @niran, should you believe some of the information which the Operator could provide in regards of your concerns is too sensitive, please feel free to either communicate the issue over forum PM system OR authorize them to provide that info publicly. 

Thanks. 

[Ruslan_KingBilly]

8 hours ago, niran said:

Dear Niran,

Let Us explain the notions in question.

If we refer to the case in your question below,  total bet amount will equal to €1500, and total winning amount  - €3000.

Feel free to share all questions with Us if any, 

Best regards,

King Billy Team

 

8 hours ago, niran said:

8 hours ago, niran said:

Dear ask Gamblers,

 

What does total winning bet amount mean: Well if I'm gambling on live Baccarat and I bet $1500, and I win, I get back $3000, because when I made that initial bet     So my total Bet sum= $1500,            My total winning bet amount = $3000              My total winning amount = $1500

?????

 

 

 

Quote

 

 

 

Dear ask Gamblers,

 

What does total winning bet amount mean: Well if I'm gambling on live Baccarat and I bet $1500, and I win, I get back $3000, because when I made that initial bet     So my total Bet sum= $1500,            My total winning bet amount = $3000              My total winning amount = $1500

?????

 

 

[niran]

 I authorize them to provide the info publicly. so everyone here can see what the mighty King is doing to his prince. or even better let me provide it here

 

 

[niran]

 

 

Dear ask Gamblers,

 

************What does total winning bet amount mean: Well if I'm gambling on live Baccarat and I bet $1500, and I win, I get back $3000, because when I made that initial bet of $1500, it was withdrawn out of my balance which gave me $3000, so my winning amount is really $1500.*****************

    ***** So  my total Bet sum= $1500,            My total winning bet amount = $3000              My total winning amount = $1500******

Ok I got a email from  King Billy  of the logs so, I was off by a couple thousand, apparently,  but let  me show you what they did:

(total bet sum - total winning bet amount) *0.1 ,

which is used to calculate if your qualified for the cashback!! not for the actual cash back. I figured  it out with the help of AskGamblers chat Mia, she helped a lot!

 

Total bet sum = $679,222.20.             Total winning on bet amount= $636,961.        Total winning amount=$318 ,480.5            Deposit = $16,000.        Withdrawls=$16,000       Bonus= 0

Net loss = $42,261.20 CAD             

 

 

'Thursday Cashback' Bonus conditions:

• The minimum net loss amount* (minus issued bonus and withdrawal sum) placed in the period from Thursday 00:00 till Wednesday 23:59 is €/$500 (750AU$/CAD); 
• The minimum deposits sum placed in the period from Thursday 00:00 till Wednesday 23:59 is €/$500 (750AU$/CAD);
• The refund is calculated using the formula for Prince status: (pot** - winning amount - received bonuses***) × 0.1; 
• Unavailable for Cryptocurrencies; 
• Wager Free / No Max Win; 
• net loss* = (total bet amount - total winning bet amount);
  pot** is the total bet sum;
  received bonuses***: the cashback bonus for the previous week, 'points for money' bonus, and canceled bonuses are not taken in count.

 

Now in this updated cashback that my vip rep sent me, she says this to break it down right. 

1. qualify for a cashback must deposit minimum of $750 cad,  which I did

2. qualify for a cashback minimum net loss amount of $750 cad, and this is the formula to qualify, but you have to know what net loss is, and the formula for this is:

     -net loss* = (total bet amount - total winning bet amount);

        -  Oct 21 - 27, 2020 net loss = ($679222.20-$636961)= $42,261.20 CAD

          - now to calculate if I qualify for the cash back using formula:

             -Net loss amount* (minus issued bonus and withdrawal sum): 

               $42,261.20 - 0 - $16000= $26,261.20  net loss for that week so I qualify because it says, $750 CAD is min.

Now because I qualify for the cash back bonus we can now  proceed  to the formula we use to for the Cashback Bonus, as stated:

      -(pot** - winning amount - received bonuses***) × 0.1;                        

       -pot** is the total bet sum;

             - ($679,222.20 - $318 ,480.5-0)*0.1= $36, 074.17 which exceed 7500 so I get that this for Oct 21 to Oct 27 2020

 

 

Now for the week of Oct 28 - Nov 02, 2020:

 

Total bet sum = $818,498.27              Total winning bet amount = $775 507.65                    Total winning amount =$392, 000                withdraws = $8000            Deposits = $8000        Bonus = 0

Net loss = $42,990.62

     -Now to calculate net loss first:

          -net loss* = (total bet amount - total winning bet amount)

                - ($818,498.27 - $775 507.65)= $42, 990.62 .

                   - Now to calculate if I qualify for the Cash back Bonus:

                       -Net loss amount* (minus issued bonus and withdrawal sum): 

                           - $42,990.62 - 0 - $8000 = $34990.62 so I qualify again because my net loss is over $750 CAD

 

 

Now because I qualify for the cash back bonus we can now  proceed  to the formula we use to for the Cashback Bonus, as stated:

      -(pot** - winning amount - received bonuses***) × 0.1;                        

       -pot** is the total bet sum;

              ($818,498.27 - $392, 000 - 0) * 0.1 = $42, 649.83 which exceed $7500 so I should of got this for Oct 28 -Nov 02 2020

                

           

so the total winning bet amount is used in the formula to qualify for a  cashback and is not  used for the cashback, that means this would be the right way to calculate it.

because why would they  obviously put the total winning bet amount in the formula to qualify for a  cashback,  and not put it in ithe formula to get a cashback?

what do you think?

[ValDes]

Hi @niran, 

I'm sure @Ruslan_KingBilly, @michaliskingbilly  will be able to assist in a much more detailed and clear way than us here.  

[niran]

2 minutes ago, ValDes said:

Hi @niran, 

I'm sure @Ruslan_KingBilly, @michaliskingbilly  will be able to assist in a much more detailed and clear way than us here.  

great waiting to hear from them after my last post