billyboy
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Everything posted by billyboy
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Further to... So I am reading about slot tourneys on another site and her is what I read: Their has been alot of chatter about this in the forums for the past year or so. Almost all Microgaming casinos now run free by-hourly slot tournaments that are free to enter for real money, ....but the point is that to cut down the amount of money won by players the casino uses robots to play, they dont even try to hide this fact, if you look at the usernames of these robots they look something like this, ( I will let you decide what the robots player's names are). I once talked to the live chat about why so many players have numbers after their names. I said it's odd that some would not use numbers before their names if the name is already taken. Behold!!!, next thing I start to see is players with numbers before the names. Weird aye? I have played the free tourneys now for a long, long time now and have never even won 5 credits. If that 's the same as my chances on the pay for slots, don't play at the casino.
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Ahh, the luck of the Irish. I don't know the stats but I figure there are a lot of slot players who really aren't looking for a life changing win at the slots. Myself, I play for entertainment and would rather have the occasional decent win than play for a 1 in a 5000,000,000 .... chance of a jackpot. I would like to see the percent of payout for each slot and be able to play the ones with decent payback with more smaller wins. When the casinos state their payout percent it is the overall percent. I figure my smaller bets and the rare wins on low jacpot payout slot games means low percent payback that is made up in the overllcasino payout when a highroller player hits a wooper of a life changer. Good publicity for the casino but small bets players soon get tired of losing and move on. Like I said, it would be nice to know the payback percent of each game.
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Hi ValDes, The tourneys are at the casinos I listed on the other topic. One tourney playing now has the top player at 17 million coins. Up to 1000 add-ons or continues @ 2.50 each. Top prize I think is 7000. Ricochet44 says... I once took great and perverse delight in pushing him up to having over 550,000 coins credit at the end, when I came in second and he was fourth, for a total win off $2.00. I see that going on too. Weird how players get caught up and will buy add-ons way past what is sensable just to be the winner, or punish another player. I have been tempted to do it too. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Anyhow, my latest beef is, I am playing the tourney Break da Bank. So I am leader because I buy add-ons. The guy in second place is 25000 behind me. Average win per add-on is 2500 coins. So we are spinning away and I hit a decent combo. I have the auto spin on. It sits there for a couple seconds then spins to another combo and no coins to my win box from it. Next thing the other player jumps from 52000 to 125000 in one spin. I don't think there is a combo that pays that high in that game. If there is I have never seen it been hit. Now this player seems to win an awful lot of tourneys. When I watch the play this person seems to have a turbo button that gives them much larger wins per spin compared to other players. When it comes to gambling I get suspicious because if there is a way to cheat someone will find it. Is it possible to hack the downloaded program?? Or what the heck gives?? I have more than chance at these tournaments because I play at more than one casino that is partners in the tourney. You have to download the software to play. Even after I have played for months the games will say that I can't play until finished downloading. Updates??? I notice the play patten and winnings / bonus games and free spins pattern changes too. Now here is something I find strange. Usually around 300+ players and what I find odd id that when I play I can get the near exact same amount of coins in my win box that I have when I play at my other casino account. Many times I am right right together in amounts out of 300+ players. Straaaange stuff indeed. It's like I am put into a certain win amount window.
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Thanks for the link. Hope to see you over there. I see where someone talks about having a dry spell. I feel like I live in the desert with the luck I have at the casinos where I have been playing.
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Hi ValDes. No, no. Not mad, crazy maybe? But , that's just my advice. Played many a thousands of spins at them and never win more than peanuts. Just always enough to keep me grinding it in and them go broke. Never once got a decent size win to cash out any $$$. Sure, at first I could win but rarely more than my original deposit, Then it went down hill from there. Dry spell? Hmmm. Back on topic. So I play the free games and man oh man what a difference. I just can'y do any wrong on those. Just sayin. PS. I can't find that old topic on slot tournaments. The search does not work for me. Cheers!
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My 30000 credits woth. Only play for free games at the belle rock casinos. Been playing at their casinos for quite a while. Epoca, Jackpot City, King Neptunes, Gaming Club, Lucky Nugget and River Belle. Take my word and do yourself a favor and save yourself some grief. Find any other casino besides the belle rock group, or only play for fun there. 300 spins and no bonus rounds. A regular thing. Rarely ever win above what you deposit. and I mean very rarely. When you do win it's small potates. They grind it all out of you.
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Ok, so I thought what with these casinos having a license and all I would give them (microgaming casinos) one more try. 32Red, Jackpot City and River Belle. Deposited to all 3 and played slots. Got the same losing results and pretty much the exact same combinations at all three and on the same games games. Up to nearly 45 spins before even a small hit, then I would be almost back to my starting credits but never more than that. Kept playing and always went broke about the exactly the smae time and way. Like I posted before what Jack said. I totaly agree with him and I from expierience believe that the online casinos can and do manipulte their RNG seed at will. From now on I will only be playing at land based casinos. And as Jack says: "To people commenting that its not rigged you have got to be kidding me. ... I've had enough of losing, ... never play ...until they have been officially regulated in your country, ..." Good luck at the online casinos, b.b.
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You have that right ValDes. Entertainment only is good advice. So after maybe 1000's of tries I'm still batting zero on winning a free slot tournament, or even coming close to win. I thought I would give the pay tournaments a try though. I pay my entry and start playing and I'm doing alright. I'm not at the top but not far off. My next spin the reels stop and I get a great win combination. There it was, I would be in top spot! It's there for about 2 seconds and then bammm, without me spinning it jumps and changes and gives me a losing combo. NICE! Not rigged hey? b.b.
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Hi ValDes. I keep looking forward to your input and comments. Anyhow, the reason for as you say, ignorance of how a gambling software actually operates, is because that's the way the software makers and casinos like to keep it. Why if games are honest should we the players not be allowed to know the "secrets?" For example, I am of the belief there is more than one single RNG at work in the scheme. Now if that's the fact, what stops a work-station operator from controlling the switching between RNG's, say the take one, the payout one, ETC., each with their own win/lose RTP ratios? Just asking.. Happy newyear and cheers to all, b.b.
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Hi Valdes, Now don't get me wrong, I don't feel cheated. And the top prize is pretty decent (2000 coins). And I don't have to play the tournaments. What I'm saying is how many people would buy into a free tournament where they know they are going to have to buy 100's of continues to even come close to the lowest prize? I did get fooled once. I and others bought into continues early on in the tournament. I was top place for a bit. Later on nearing the end a few players race up from behind and out bought us all with hundreds of continues and, then went onto the top spots. That seems to be the routine, so just saying watch out for doing any early buys into the continues on the (free) tournaments, unless you're willing use hundreds (up to 999) of continues to chase the the prize. Oh, yeah, check out JackpotCity, Freeroll - Loaded Game. Current top win box is nearing 6 million coins.
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Microgaming, yes. That's the ones I play the free slot games at. As for being free, yeah sure the first round 10,000 of coins are free, but then after that it's pay for the continues/add-ons. I know it's free but in reality a person does not stand a chance unless you do buy 100's of the continues. I suppose it's a ploy to get players to pony up some more but the casinos should just make it a pay tournament. It's kind of a slight of words to call it free when there's really "0" chance of winning for free. Update: At my last look the two top players (the same winners as the last "free" tournament) are up to 5+million coins in the win box and 2+ million in the coins to play box. I'm at 5000 in my win box (woohoo,,and I'm far from last). Now that millions of win box coins must add up to a lot of buy continues. Just sayin. I decided that unless I am a big winner and don't mind re-investing I won't be playing the slot tourneys that offer 999 continues. I'll stick to the one shot with possibly a few re-buys. Cheers, b.b.
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Ok, your on, as long as you're not a manager. Then let me know when you win, as long as it's before the next 100 years. Question for you ValDes. When starting with 10 thousand coins. How is it possible to have over 5 million coins in the win box and, 450,000 coins still unplayed? The thing I can figure is time ran out and they couldn't play any longer. Then they keep on buying more of tthe add-ons/continues, which are up to 999 available @ 2.50 each x 900 continues = the 2300 prize, which = a net win of 50 coins.
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ValDes, it's true. At least the ones I've been playing. Oh sure, thousands of players get their free spins and win a bit but it's nothing compared to the amount of coins in the win box of the players that buy into the continues. Some are doing 100's of continues. And from what I see it's the same winners of the previous games that are the only ones that are willing to buy the continues with their previous winnings. I wouldn't even bother buying a continue when you know another player is going to buy 998 more than I would. Cheers, b.b.
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Update. I'm still playing the free tournaments. What I see happing is it starts out with some thousands of players and works its way down to a contest between a few players. Looks to me like what happens is those fewkeep buying "continues". That keeps up until they are in to deep to back out and they have to keep on continuing or lose all the investment they have put into continues. Eventually those few have invested 999 credits to win a 1000.
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The new computer slot games (internet computer games) are fun games and such. But! I'll bet my money in the good old mechanical slots. There were no slot computer programers secrets that only a chosen few are allowed to know and, you knew what your odds are/were (in the ones that hadn't been rigged.) These new computer games with their RNG's and controlled seeds values make for a lot of loosers.
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Hi ValDes, I'll make this one short. My descriptions may seen astonishing but, perception is 9/10ths. And I percieve... Just once in a while it would be nice for me to end up with more coins than I start with. It seems a little strange that I continusly get 2 & 3 small win combinations while I watch in the win boxes as a "some" players are going up by the 1000's for every 100's coin wagers, over and over. Cheers to all.
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Update.... Still batting the big "0" at the free tournaments. I think that's an indication of my chances at winning anything at pay slots. Well it will be a long time before I make another deposit. What I have noticed when I play the free tournaments compared to the real money slots..... When I make a change in wager amount at the real money slots, there was almost always a brief lag time for communication with the home computer to communicate that change. With the free tournament slots I can change wager and never a lag time. And it's nearly always the same combinations over, and over. Almost like the win amount combinations are already in the program in my computers download for that game. Of course if I rebuy, then there's the possibility that.... Cheers,
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Hi Luciana, I know you're probably busy, but .... any update on that exclusive free roll tournament for me , at some decent casino ? So far I'm still batting zero at the ones I'm playing at. Cheers, b.b. P.s. Doing some reading on your site. Thanks to you and ValDel for a great gambling info web-site. Nice to also see a place where people can bring their issues to and find help from you to get results.
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Hi Luciana, Right now I'm working on my annual mine reports, and whilst I'm doing that I'm trying to win a free slots tourney. If I can win one of those I might be convinced that I've got a better chance of winning a real money slot game than a snowball has a chance in .... well, you know where. What you up to.
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Hi ValDes, I have done taken your suggestion, after the losing I've sustained at accredited casinos I've quit online gambling. I still play the free ones for fun though. P.s. You seem like a great person. I've got a gold mine if you're interested in partnering up. Cheers from your pal, b.b.
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Slot Game Payout Percentages or The Casino's Take
billyboy replied to billyboy's topic in Casinos General
Hi ValDes, I'm not trying to yank your chain here, this is just the way I have it figured. I would be glad to hear what you think. I'm not sure how/where you feel what I've written is 90% not true? The articles you've posted pretty much collaborate my statements. Let me try to explain where I'm coming from. Let's start at the beginning. First, we know that playing at slot machine games some players come away with more coins than they started with, some with less than they started with. So as it is, some players win, some lose. Right? Now, the slots do not pay exactly 90% back to every player for every play session. If they did, here is what you could expect: --- start with a 100 coins, drop them in the slot one at a time and spin each coin, repeat until gone, pick up 90 coins out of the slot win hopper. Voila, there's 90% RTP and 10% hold/take to the house/casino. Now suppose that machine was only ever played that one time in a full year and at the end of that year the machine is audited, coins in = 100, coins out = 90. The audit can state a 90% RTP. Now, suppose I repeat the play with those 90 coins that was the RTP, and I again get 90% of the 90 coins as the RTP, and the house gets their10%. Now keep on repeating this over and over, and soon enough the house has all the coins, and the player has gotten their 90% RTP, but they will have no coins left. That continuous repeating/spinning/ betting is called the churn, whereby the house can end up with all the coins. That's why the faster you play/spin, and the bigger your wager, the more the house makes. Right? As for setting the machines to pay small wins (peanuts) or the occasional big win, it's true they can be programed for that. It is definitely in the casino's best interest to pay many small wins (peanuts) as opposed to the occasional big win. Why? Because with an occasional big win the player is more likely to cash it out. With many small wins the player will keep re-playing the coins over and over (the churn) at 10% of each bet as the house take. Even a win of 2 coins on a 5 coin bet/spin is considered as RTP. A well respected casino consultant says: "Should we program our machines so slot players get many small wins but therefore extremely few big wins; or do we program our machines so slot players get very few small wins but many more big wins?" I can provide the link if requested to. Cheers, b.b. -
Many casinos state their slot game payouts. We know that payout percent can be higher than 90 percent but it can also be lower. For my demonstration here I'm going to simplify it and choose 90% as the payout percentage. So a casino makes it's money as the 10 percent hold, it's take or, whatever you want to call it. That 90 percent payout figure is the average payout based on all the wagers, spins, bets over a long period, usually about a year. The payout percent, payback percent, return to player,etc., they all mean the same thing. So what does it really mean? Lot's of the slot players I have met state they have never come close to getting even 50 percent payback. Slots games can be programmed to pay frequent small wins called peanuts, or can be programmed to pay the occasional bigger wins I'll call potato's, or can be programmed to pay only the rare bigger wins. Winning small amounts and betting it over, and over, and over again is called churn. Instead of the payout figures, let's look at it conversely, that 10 percent casino take, or hold. What does it mean? Essentially it means that the casino takes on average, a 10 percent cut of every bet, spin or wager over that same long period of time. We know that playing at card games, bingo, roulette etc. you can make a bet only every so often. But what about slots? They can be programmed to go fast or slower, It's not so difficult to be averaging 300 spins/bets per hour at slots play. Let's say you deposit a 100 credits. 10% take of each 1 credit spin, x 1000 spins per hour, = 100% house take of your deposit. That's 100 percent of your deposit is gone in an hour that won't ever be coming back into play for someone to possibly win. And as we can see, it's in the casino's best interest to keep paying peanuts (the churn) so that eventually all of your deposit is gone into those big bags of loot the casinos keep hauling out to the bank. Also keep in mind it is the high rollers that make the casinos the most money. 10% of 100 credits per spin beats 10% of 10 credits per spin. So which player would the casino keep churning away? So now my friends you know why the casinos take in so much money, and rarely do you have any money left at the end of your play, but you are a winner, over, and over, and over............ You folks out there, take mine and Jack's advice, if you're thinking of gambling, especially internet casino slots, take your money and run like the devil is behind you. You'll be much more happy and well off if you do. Cheers, and a good day to all.
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I want to add that it has not always been strait to the bottom for me at slots, there are times when I can spin, and spin, and spin for what seems like a good hour or so. Win after spin, after win after spin, all peanuts though. Never really going up or down, just staying about even. Then it dries up and I go strait to the bottom like a lead weight.
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Hi, Black Diamond, I think you're probably right about the payouts. In the near future I'm going to be posting an opinion about that too. It's quite the ambiguous term.
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Well, I'm back again. I definitly have to agree with Jack in some of his opinions about online slot gambling. I thought I'd give it one more try and deposited another 100 credits (accredited casino). Man oh man did that ever go fast too. For evey 20 to 25 spins I would get the odd small win. Never once got a bonus round or a free spin game. The meager small wins, always the same combination, over and over, like the RNG is locked. So I though I would play the same game, same denomination and lines in the play for fun mode. Wowee, what a differnce, free spins, bonus rounds galore. Man I couldn't do no wrong. I have done my fair share of gambling at slots in land based casinos, won some, lost some, but never the losses like I have sustained at the online casinos. At the land based casinos I would hit the odd slot that was on a bit of a pay streek. Of all the many, many slots I have tried online, not once have I ever hit one of those small pay streeks. My adice to slot players, as Jack said, "... until they (casinos) have been officially regulated in your country..." , if you have a choice play at the land based casinos if you can, period.