Complaints

[Steven339]

Thank you for your input guys appreciate it.

when We eventually receive all the relevant data I will put this in order of events which will give the whole picture, I am in agreement this is probably as far as we can take this and like mentioned before I’m not sure why they have referred this to Ibas when it clearly stated on the website they don’t investigate these type of complaints. 

However it will still be referred to the ukgc once the full timeline of events have been established and they can then investigate accordingly should they wish.

My son also seems to be doing a bit better now and is looking at other hobbies instead of gambling, he’s opened up quite a bit and spent a lot of time understanding gambling addiction and how to avoid getting into the trap again. I guess only time will tell in his case but I’ve certainly noticed a change already in him, so something had come from this.

thanks again the support kind words and completely honest advise that you have contributed, and for those who have sent a personal pm you are amazing for taking the time to do so.

Regards 

[pinnit2015]

Just incase you were looking for communication data? - think we spoke about how long it should be held for?

Leovegas, in their terms (well done to them for including), give the retention periods for the data which will be the same all round for legal basis etc.

Good for anyone reading for when a casino says ‘we don’t have that’ - you know they talking nonsense (and if there’s one thing I hate is a casino trying to obfuscate the facts  

 

[Fiekie247]

1 hour ago, pinnit2015 said:

Just incase you were looking for communication data? - think we spoke about how long it should be held for?

Leovegas, in their terms (well done to them for including), give the retention periods for the data which will be the same all round for legal basis etc.

Good for anyone reading for when a casino says ‘we don’t have that’ - you know they talking nonsense (and if there’s one thing I hate is a casino trying to obfuscate the facts  

 

Charge your battery and move to Android 

 

BIG Ups to Leo.

[Steven339]

Hi looks like they have dodged my questions and given me incorrect information on IBAS who won’t look at this complaint. I found it quite funny I cc the ukgc on this.

See below 

 

Dear xxxx

Thankyou for taking the time to respond to my complaint. I was wondering if you could clarify something in relationship to this case.

Could you advise when I am likely to receive the subject access request? I thought it would have been sent with this e-mail.

Could you also please send me a copy of you risk assessment policy, on how you monitor/review/check please in terms of responsible gambling.

 

Please could you also send me a copy or link to youre privacy policy.

 

I appreciate you have sent over some information already but and I don't believe this has satisfied the complaint in its enitrerty.

 

looking at the guidance alone set out by the uk gambling commission would indicate nearly all factors have been missed by Xxxx during this period. This is not to mention the additional customer interaction during each account closure to which there are many, 

 

The response from xxxx is simply not suffice to satisfy the below alone which has been set out by the ukgc

 

 3.5 You should use a range of indicators. The PWC remote gambling research identified some account and play indicators, but they are not a definitive list. Your list could include: • Time and spend indicators: amount and frequency of time and deposits, time of day, large losses. • Account indicators: cancelled withdrawals, failed deposits, multiple payment methods. • Use of responsible gambling tools: changing deposit limits, trying to stop reversing withdrawals, previous self-exclusions or previous customer interactions. • Customer contact: information or hints from customers, frequent complaints, requests for bonuses following losses, or signs of distress. e-mails documented to your VIP managers.

 

 

Look forward to hearing from you.

 

Kind Regards

 

The response

Dear xxxxxxxxxx

Thank you for your email. 

 

Having looked into this for you, we can confirm that you will receive your Data Subject Access Request by 13th August 2019. 

 

Furthermore, we can confirm that we have internal systems that can detect patterns in play. 

 

As advised in out previous email, should you remain dissatisfied with the outcome of your dispute, you do have the option of referring your dispute to an approved Alternative Dispute Resolution provider (ADR) such as the Independent Betting Adjudication Service. 

 

Please be advised that we will not be entering into any further communication with yourself, however, we will fully comply with any instructions provided by IBAS. 

 

Kind Regards,

 

[pinnit2015]

Yeah, pretty much all you can do is let the UKGC know of it.

Minor caveat to IBAS - whilst the above, as stated is true, and they won't get involved in these issues there is a situation in which they may permit it: if the casino in question is subsequently subject to a financial penalty for similar circumstances to your complaint, they WOULD CONSIDER hearing it. I imagine that's not very common. 

I admire your persistence but looks like you're reaching/reached the cul de sac in terms of moving forward. 

[Steven339]

Thanks appreciate the help along the way. 

 

[pinnit2015]

No problem - we'll probably be at a different place in a few years with all this (if there are any casino's bar the big boys, left).

It depends on who's attention things like this capture as to what happens - i know of one guy who had the UKGC inquire as to a rather large payment, for example, that wasn't forthcoming - and surprise, surprise the casino fast tracked it: though this is very much the exception s as they aren't an Ombudsman - maybe they've started to put 'Justice Seeker' in their more recent job descriptions for case workers, who knows).

Given that you've probably read more of the UKGC's LCCP than some casino's out there, i would suggest having a wee read of Natasha Schull's Book: Addiction By Design as there's some interesting walkthroughs of how casino's aim to snare punters (albeit, Land Based predominately)

Best of Luck and I hope your son gets over the more debilitating aspect of addiction - the psychological one. Money can be fixed relatively easily compared to that. More interest in 'interests' is a good sign. 

[pinnit2015]

Speaking of which, they're actually recruiting at the GC for something with my background - if i was inclined to live in Birmingham (which, for anyone who's been there, you wouldn't) I'd be tempted to apply.

If i have a change of heart I'll raise your case at the monthly meetings with their compliance dude

Jesting aside - let us know if they ever come back with anything

[ValDes]

Dear @Steven339, 

IMHO, it's just about time to put some serious pressure on the UKGC and let them know they must somehow involve into your dispute . 

Obviously they are 'on the run' - https://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/news-action-and-statistics/news/2018/Gambling-Commission-takes-widespread-regulatory-action-against-online-casinos.aspx 

[Steven339]

Absolutely,

we require all the information on the more specifics such as account closures dates etc then we can out together a series of events to build a better case and understanding, it’s got to be factual which I don’t believe the response from this large group has been. It’s simply been far to vague in its response, avoided direct questions  and now simply binned us off once and for all.

what is more worrying because this was dealt with by another part of the group I wonder really if they have read any e mails that have been sent by them. This will prove pivotal when it comes to presenting this case. 

 

[pinnit2015]

Ladbrokes Coral fined after customer lost £98,000 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49175515

ding a ling; here comes the regulatory fine train.

Not one of these is it?

[pinnit2015]

30 minutes ago, Steven339 said:

Absolutely,

we require all the information on the more specifics such as account closures dates etc then we can out together a series of events to build a better case and understanding, it’s got to be factual which I don’t believe the response from this large group has been. It’s simply been far to vague in its response, avoided direct questions  and now simply binned us off once and for all.

what is more worrying because this was dealt with by another part of the group I wonder really if they have read any e mails that have been sent by them. This will prove pivotal when it comes to presenting this case. 

 

It’s a pretty boilerplate response that, considering the bbc article, doesn’t chime well with the current climate.

[Steven339]

yes is was part of the coral ladbrokes group 

[pinnit2015]

2 hours ago, Steven339 said:

yes is was part of the Coral Ladbrokes group 

Spooky 

You'd think they'd be a bit more diligent given that they knew a fine was coming through - 5.9 million might be chum change out of their profits but still. 

 

 

[pinnit2015]

Can find it on catch up if you don't see but BBC have, at 8.30pm tonight, a Panorama problem on Problem Gambling. 

To be honest, the BBC article is so skewed that I don't hold out much hope other than poor, poor journalism. 

[pinnit2015]

So, you’ve got the CEO of the UKGC in front of you but yet don’t ask about the GCs position on complaints relating to their own regulations ; particularly RG and SE. 

Of course it’s easier to hang the casinos out to dry. 

Odd. 

[pinnit2015]

Quite an imbalanced view of the whole thing - yes, some valid points but why have a programme on it and no one from the Industry? Just some Jesus-esque researchers here to wash our mortal sins away. 

EG. when they ask for SOW now they will generally shut your account if you don't supply; Ladbrokes replied 'Sorry Mate, we need to ask but it's no problem, ciao'

[ValDes]

Spent a good 30 minutes reading and digging across UKGC's fortnight e-bulletin in the hope to find something new/more about how they intend to address RG related complaints with their new ADR policies and procedures... Found nothing  

[Steven339]

Just a quick update. The company has failed to provide the SAR by the agreed deadline. They advised it would be today but we haven't received anything. It was requested on the 09/07

they advised the latest we would receive it by would be the 13/08.

 

Regards

[pinnit2015]

13 hours ago, ValDes said:

Spent a good 30 minutes reading and digging across UKGC's fortnight e-bulletin in the hope to find something new/more about how they intend to address RG related complaints with their new ADR policies and procedures... Found nothing  

That was optimistic! - does their new ADR rules read well? Not had a chance to look - just wondering if it will see more companies refusing to deal with anyone other than their designated ADR.

 

[pinnit2015]

10 minutes ago, Steven339 said:

Just a quick update. The company has failed to provide the SAR by the agreed deadline. They advised it would be today but we haven't received anything. It was requested on the 09/07

they advised the latest we would receive it by would be the 13/08.

 

Regards

Report them to the ICO - https://ico.org.uk/make-a-complaint/your-personal-information-concerns/

Good to see they've improved!

[ValDes]

12 hours ago, pinnit2015 said:

That was optimistic! - does their new ADR rules read well? Not had a chance to look - just wondering if it will see more companies refusing to deal with anyone other than their designated ADR.

 

Didn't paid much attention to this particular part to be honest cause it's non-sense anyway. No business could refuse their customer an available alley of resolving a dispute IF the customer decided to do so. 

[pinnit2015]

10 hours ago, ValDes said:

Didn't paid much attention to this particular part to be honest cause it's non-sense anyway. No business could refuse their customer an available alley of resolving a dispute IF the customer decided to do so. 

Agree but i think some casino's recently have been trotting out the line of basically 'It needs to go to our ADR, not another party' and then prattling on, wrongly, about data protection (think Redbet were one - was having a look to see any recent complaints here to see if they were still engaging). Was just curious if it was something you guys had picked up on. 

[pinnit2015]

Sorry for hi-jacking your thread Steven 

[Steven339]

Its ok, this is my sons account my names  Tony.  Ive learned a great deal from this thread and from you guys. Its good to understand from my point.

 

Reference the information ive had to report this too the ico. It doesnt look like the casino are up for givinb my son this information, but thats ok as it further highlights problems and supports my case when I report this to the ukgc.