Account closures and opening new.

[timmy1979]

Hi all,

 

Sorry haven't been around for a bit.. gave gambling a knock on the head for a while.

 

I'm interested on people view or facts on this.

 

In 2017 I closed an account with a provider, the reason I'm unsure of but probably losing money with them.

I received an email stating the following.

 

We hereby confirm that a status of ‘Closed’ has been applied to the above account, so blocking your access to and future participation using the aforementioned account.

 

Account Closure Agreement

 

1. Bets in play stand and payment of winnings will be made upon bet settlement

2. Your account(s) may only be considered for re-activation by Betway UK:

• at your own request (contact must be by telephone or in person); and, if agreed,

• after a 24 hour period has passed from the initial request.

 

Seems clear? Blocked account, can't use them again until call? And 24hr cooling period?

 

My question is, how has it allowed me to open a new account using the same Name & Surname, date of birth, same email address(that they sent closure confirmation to) same postal address and mobile number. All these were details on my closed account with exception of user name. Allowed to deposit and play all day yesterday.

 

I'm on a principal thing with this not money and wonder if I should complain?

If someone has closed their account/tried to give up gambling and had an email as above showing the measures in place before they could play again.

Surely it is wrong for the provider to allow this happen & not conform to the conditions they have put in their own email??

 

Look forward to your views.

[pinnit2015]

The UK Code says they must take 'all reasonable steps' to stop an individual from gambling when they've self excluded. The fact that Betway (not a great operator IMO) couldn't even be bothered doing a look up against your details would intimate to me that they haven't taken any steps, never mind reasonable. 

 

As far as i know the UKGC still don't deal with SE complaints but you could contact then regarding a licence breach. RG's going to be on their agenda for the next 1000 years.

[timmy1979]

Hi Pinnit,

 

That's along the lines I'm thinking.

They have stated the steps needed reopen account(s) and have a duty of care to make sure this happens.

I could understand if someone went to lengths to conceal their identity but nothing bar user name.

Actually that's another point, how have they verified account details without picking this up?

[pinnit2015]

Hi Pinnit,

 

That's along the lines I'm thinking.

They have stated the steps needed reopen account(s) and have a duty of care to make sure this happens.

I could understand if someone went to lengths to conceal their identity but nothing bar user name.

Actually that's another point, how have they verified account details without picking this up?

I'm sure if someone looked at it from a regulatory point of view they would frankly say they're not discharged their duty of care. Particularly in todays climate. 

 

Not telling me that they have all these complex systems to pick out syndicate betting pattern etc but not check a post code? Or DOB?

 

Yes, players shouldn't be allowed to be 'free rolled' by casinos but at the same time casinos shouldn't be allowed to be selective as to when they apply self exclusion controls. 

[timmy1979]

I'm going to lodge a formal complaint and see what happens.

If i was a vulnerable person and had made the steps forward by closing my accounts. Received confirmation from them I could not play again only by phoning them and waiting 24hrs cooling off, I'd feel somewhat protected?

But by been able to open, deposit and play for a day by just changing user name.

I feel they failed badly under responsible gambling as well as not keeping to their own account closure agreement ?

[pinnit2015]

Well the UKGC specifically mentioned the cooling off period not being adhered to when they hammered Leo Vegas for a fine. If you’re interested in reading (I’m sad and I do) then it’s on their site as to the view of the UKGC re RG matters.

 

I’m always somewhat torn regarding matters like this. On one hand (again, not you) we see a complete abdication of personal responsibility in some cases. Arguable that it’s lead to an over zealous positioning by regulators - leading to ‘ordinary’ punters suffering due to it. On the other, the rules are there - casinos make a lot of money and the ‘social contract’ is that they should be proactive and good at safeguarding the vulnerable. Which I would agree with.

 

Fine balancing line.

 

They’ve failed in your example, so yeah I’d let the regulator know of their RG lip service.

[timmy1979]

Thanks Pinnit,

I have made a formal complaint, if only to point out their short comings.

 

My points were

 

Failing to conform to account closure agreement. Set out in their own email.

Failing to verify account properly or this would have been flagged?

Failing a duty of care under responsible gambling.

 

Would you agree?

 

I also agree with you regarding personal responsibility.. you make bets you lose or win money. Simple really.

But would they have paid out if I had withdrawn? I'm sure they would have called it a duplicate account and voided all winnings.

 

I do feel they have been ignored their duty in this instance?

[pinnit2015]

Thanks Pinnit,

I have made a formal complaint, if only to point out their short comings.

 

My points were

 

Failing to conform to account closure agreement. Set out in their own email.

Failing to verify account properly or this would have been flagged?

Failing a duty of care under responsible gambling.

 

Would you agree?

 

I also agree with you regarding personal responsibility.. you make bets you lose or win money. Simple really.

But would they have paid out if I had withdrawn? I'm sure they would have called it a duplicate account and voided all winnings.

 

I do feel they have been ignored their duty in this instance?

Bolded - No. This is what i meant by players free roll but casinos use it not to pay. Both as guilty as each other 

 

I think it's primarily a case of licence breach which embodies the duties mentioned....

[ValDes]

Hi all,

 

Sorry haven't been around for a bit.. gave gambling a knock on the head for a while.

 

I'm interested on people view or facts on this.

 

In 2017 I closed an account with a provider, the reason I'm unsure of but probably losing money with them.

I received an email stating the following.

 

We hereby confirm that a status of ‘Closed’ has been applied to the above account, so blocking your access to and future participation using the aforementioned account.

 

Account Closure Agreement

 

1. Bets in play stand and payment of winnings will be made upon bet settlement

2. Your account(s) may only be considered for re-activation by Betway UK:

• at your own request (contact must be by telephone or in person); and, if agreed,

• after a 24 hour period has passed from the initial request.

 

Seems clear? Blocked account, can't use them again until call? And 24hr cooling period?

 

My question is, how has it allowed me to open a new account using the same Name & Surname, date of birth, same email address(that they sent closure confirmation to) same postal address and mobile number. All these were details on my closed account with exception of user name. Allowed to deposit and play all day yesterday.

 

I'm on a principal thing with this not money and wonder if I should complain?

If someone has closed their account/tried to give up gambling and had an email as above showing the measures in place before they could play again.

Surely it is wrong for the provider to allow this happen & not conform to the conditions they have put in their own email??

 

Look forward to your views.

 

Hey there, 

 

Hmm, not sure where did you find these 'account closure' conditions, but it's totally different on the RG page assuming Take break options is the only option matching standard account closure...

 

https://prnt.sc/l8w2x8

 

Unless you didn't mention 'problem gambling' specifically and that's what regulator explicitly demands when it comes to casino final decision whether an account should/could/must be self-excluded and/or simply closed for a certain  amount of time, you may consider your case lost from the very beginning. The strongest argument against your cause of course remains the fact you have opened another account despite the current restrictions applied over the existing account - perfect indication of a player who's trying to put themselves into the so called win-win scenario...

 

Still, all the above is based on pure assumptions and your own words. No way we could be of really useful assistance without the relevant emails and/or chat logs which could reveal the whole picture. 

[timmy1979]

Morning Valdes,

 

The account closure agreement was an email they sent to me which I still have a copy of.

 

I just took this extract from it

 

We hereby confirm that a status of ‘Closed’ has been applied to the above account, so blocking your access to and future participation using the aforementioned account.

 

Account Closure Agreement

 

1. Bets in play stand and payment of winnings will be made upon bet settlement

2. Your account(s) may only be considered for re-activation by Betway UK:

• at your own request (contact must be by telephone or in person); and, if agreed,

• after a 24 hour period has passed from the initial request.