UKGC Info

[pinnit2015]

I do like to keep abreast of regulatory stuff (sad like that). So I'll post anything of interest on here. Not sure of the status of the consultation but this here is the main heading for the current UKGC review into their licensing:

 

First bullet point absolutely, no issue. 

 

The one that interests me the most is the third. Unfair terms. We see all the time 'they were the terms, you should have abided by them'. But some of the terms of licensed operators verge, or even fall over, into being unfair. Quite frankly it's a bit stupid that the UKGC doesn't monitor changes to terms, or if they do they don't do a great job. I sent two instances of terms of licensed casinos that i thought, in a court of law, would be deemed to be unfair and therefore unenforceable. The response? You're just an individual basically, go away. They have been so lax on this area to the point where I don't even know why they need to consult on it.

 

No mention of looking at the payment issues - personally I'd fine casino's for unjustly delaying payments to people who have made valid wins at their establishment. A few heft fines will sort out some of the trouble makers. If that doesn't work, take their licence off them.

 

Oh but, they're not an ombudsman...ah that's ok then 

 

The Commission announced that it would consult on the following amendments to the Licence Conditions and Codes of Practice (“LCCP“):

• Age verification – whether to introduce a new LCCP requirement for age verification on all consumers before they deposit money and also before they play free games;
• Customer identification – whether to introduce (a) a new LCCP requirement for customer due diligence; and ( mandatory account limits until operators had verified the identity of their customers;
• Unfair terms advice – a consultation is already underway regarding amendments to the LCCP amid concerns about widespread instances of unfair terms and practices in terms and conditions. The Commission will continue to work to raise standards in this area; and
• Customer interaction – the effectiveness of the existing customer services interaction controls, in particular how these could be modified to help identify those at risk of gambling related harm.

 

[ValDes]

Well, must admit that while reading the bullets announced by the UKGC I felt like someone from within the regulatory side has finally started to not only listen, but actually hear to players! Which is of course a line of action that must be duly greeted and supported by the UK & ROI punters despite some of the commission's previous not so successful attempts ( so to speak ) to declare online gambling in UK as a totally 'safe & secure' area for players.

 

Contrary to the usual very informative and competent opinion shared above by Mr PinniT  I believe the first two bullets are in fact the ones that have all the potential to change the entire industry for the better and finally set the standards which each and every experienced online gambler has claimed and dreamed for for ages. I would rather go a step further though and suggest UKGC to combine "Age verification prior first deposit" with "Customer identification" and come up with something like "Mandatory full KYC /Know Your Customer/ procedure prior first deposit". Just try to imagine the consequences if such a requirement comes into force : 

 

 - that would be the end of the epidemically spreading disease called underage gambling; 

 

- that would significantly reduce all types of Self-Exclusion issues and scandals we have witnessed over the last couple of years;

 

- that would put an end to most cross-platform/cross-group related issues where player breaching the rules in one operator us having troubles with accounts in all other sister casinos within the same group. 

 

Could continue the list of course, but IMHO the bottom line of all this is that a new dawn is rising on the gambling horizon and now is the right time for punters to raise their voices. Speak now or keep quiet forever!

[Fiekie247]

 

 

.I would rather go a step further though and suggest UKGC to combine "Age verification prior first deposit" with "Customer identification" and come up with something like "Mandatory full KYC /Know Your Customer/ procedure prior first deposit".

 

 

Well Slotland casino and WinaDay has anjouan licenses, but already have this "Mandatory KYC procedure prior to depositing feature.

 

I tried to deposit at Slotland and WinaDay sometime last year they told me to verify my account first, before I can deposit, I did not feel like doing it at the time because then it would take me to wait another 24 hours before I could deposit, and I just ended up playing somewhere else first.

 

However, you are right... The Mandatory KYC prior deposit will resolve a lot of issues, especially the "SE" portion of things, and may I add - Also rule out "Weird Selfie with ID requests"(Which we end up abiding, since we already deposited and want to withdraw our winnings) as well as "Documents not being accepted" even though others operators accepts it, which makes players furious as they had a big win and already deposited, and now that delay with cashout, because the casino wants a specific verification document which does not exist etc etc...

[Afi4wins]

What is more important to me, besides what has already been said above, is to clearly indicate in the T&C whether 'a selfie holding ID' or 'Source of Wealth' verification would be needed for the KYC approval prior to making a deposit.

 

Why? Because if any of those 2 is required, I would NOT sign up at that casino...even if it's the best casino around! 

 

One casino did in fact indicated that they would require a selfie for their KYC approval and I didn't sign up on seeing that. 

[Fiekie247]

What is more important to me, besides what has already been said above, is to clearly indicate in the T&C whether 'a selfie holding ID' or 'Source of Wealth' verification would be needed for the KYC approval prior to making a deposit.

 

You are right!!!

 

I agree - " Selfie Holding ID"... :D :D :D

[pinnit2015]

100 pounds on the fact that, should you need KYC before deposits, the process will be a lot smoother.

 

Places that take 5 days prior to a withdrawal will all of a sudden be processing in minutes.

 

How weird :-)

 

KYC is, as mentioned before, far easier now with all the electronic data points people have. So stop with the photos and start using the information out there.

 

Having said that - it’s in casinos licence terms that 72hrs to verify accounts but that’s very rarely enforced...

 

Agree with selfie comments - some casinos rip the a@@@out of it. There’s is guidance on what to accept but every casino takes it to the nth degree.

 

Im pretty sure the word selfie has never been in and ts and cs... I’d find that weird if it was ;-)

[pinnit2015]

Somewhere there’s a serial killer with a bunch of selfies on their bedroom wall :-0

[Afi4wins]

Or some weirdo with thousands of stolen 'hot' selfies in his/her smartphone... 

[pinnit2015]

Casumo and Videoslots have been naughty boys - https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/nov/29/online-casinos-fined-14m-amid-watchdog-crackdown

 

Queue the over reaction by many a casino, more intrusive requests into peoples lives, more judgement calls on if someone has a gambling issue.

 

CZ Holdings is Dr Vegas...who ceased business earlier this year. 

 

Here's an idea - if the UKGC is obsessed with RG/SOW, they should do the checks. Then it will all be honky dorey. 

[Fiekie247]

Casumo and Videoslots have been naughty boys - https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/nov/29/online-casinos-fined-14m-amid-watchdog-crackdown

 

Queue the over reaction by many a casino, more intrusive requests into peoples lives, more judgement calls on if someone has a gambling issue.

 

CZ Holdings is Dr Vegas...who ceased business earlier this year. 

 

Here's an idea - if the UKGC is obsessed with RG/SOW, they should do the checks. Then it will all be honky dorey. 

Heavy fines I must admit... Never thought Videoslots and Casumo would make it to the guardian(Actually my 2 best casinos - As I make 95% of my deposits here)

 

I think the last fine I read about was that 2.6M fine to 32red from failing to protect a problem gambler(Failing social responsibility regulations and Money laundering checks) and I think SOW was in play here as that customer deposited 750k and not once did they carry out SOW, knowing the customers activity suggested gambling problems behaviors.

 

Why am I not surprised that William Hill made the guardian again as a reference to history for the 6.2M fine for failing to protect consumers and prevent money laundering , yet they wanna take over MR Green. - I hope this whole merger/transitioning won't take place...(Not that I am a customer), I guess if that happen - Mr Pinnit will quit gambling lol.

 

I guess William Hill and Red32 can go into partnership as they both have been nailed for the same thing.

 

This whole concept is the same thing as someone who makes a ***** load of money but do not want to go legit in terms of legal regulations/requirements, which cost them nothing actually lol, yet Casumo now need 5.85M fine just for not having the right checks/system in place.

 

Here's an idea - if the UKGC is obsessed with RG/SOW, they should do the checks. Then it will all be honky dorey. - Can they do this? How would they even take this approach?

 

Really sad...

[Fiekie247]

Actually now that I think of it - I am not sure about the system that should be in place to protect problem gamblers that Casumo was failing on, but it made me realise about that Interesting chat with support I had.

 

I was out of funds and gambling budget was low and I contacted live support to actually ask for some free spins.

 

I asked if they had some no deposit spins to issue as I lost all my gambling budget for the month and do not have any money to make a deposit, they responded so quickly   "I am concerned about your statement Shafiek, can you even afford gambling" - I had a good laugh with myself... :D

 

I had to emphasize the whole "Gambling Budget" for the "Month" for them to get a clearer understanding. However as usual the "Casumo Jar" has been emptied already and they cannot offer anything, though I deposited $500 in 3 days, not that its a lot, but if I lost it, surely you can add something.

 

Casumo services and offerings really went down the drain for me personally..

 

Let me not get started on Videoslots - They still very good with everything, except now " No More Tuesday spins via email for months and no one can tell me what the requirements are to get them, even though i deposit hundreds of $ a week, If I ask for some NDB(free spins) its always "Support cannot give anything anymore" and just keep on referring to the weekly booster and casino races almost like a selling point and basically saying "That is all you will get from us in return, don't bother asking again, we are already investing/giving away a lot with those 2 promotions.

[pinnit2015]

Heavy fines I must admit... Never thought Videoslots and Casumo would make it to the guardian(Actually my 2 best casinos - As I make 95% of my deposits here)

 

I think the last fine I read about was that 2.6M fine to 32red from failing to protect a problem gambler(Failing social responsibility regulations and Money laundering checks) and I think SOW was in play here as that customer deposited 750k and not once did they carry out SOW, knowing the customers activity suggested gambling problems behaviors.

 

Why am I not surprised that William Hill made the guardian again as a reference to history for the 6.2M fine for failing to protect consumers and prevent money laundering , yet they wanna take over MR Green. - I hope this whole merger/transitioning won't take place...(Not that I am a customer), I guess if that happen - Mr Pinnit will quit gambling lol.

 

I guess William Hill and Red32 can go into partnership as they both have been nailed for the same thing.

 

This whole concept is the same thing as someone who makes a ***** load of money but do not want to go legit in terms of legal regulations/requirements, which cost them nothing actually lol, yet Casumo now need 5.85M fine just for not having the right checks/system in place.

 

Here's an idea - if the UKGC is obsessed with RG/SOW, they should do the checks. Then it will all be honky dorey. - Can they do this? How would they even take this approach?

 

Really sad...

Some have made the HTML transition fine and tbh i hardly see a difference but there are some where the whole game feels different. 

 

Apparently they can't change the maths models or it'd need to go through testing/certification again - I'd be interested to know which one's did go through this - Netent have said none of theirs have which would imply they're the same...but i must admit the brain picks up on patterns and some are just too obvious to not notice.

 

HTML5 was meant to make slot experiences better, not worse 

 

Re the GC and the checks - it wouldn't happen but one thing it would do i stop the varying casino practices currently on the go. Some casinos interpreting it one one, some doing another. And quite frankly i'd rather, if i chose to submit the info, have it with the GC and not some of the casinos. 

 

The decision note re Casumo is interesting and for me tells it all - the staff at Casumo, including the MLRO (Money Laundering Reporting Officer) were not trained....now sorry, but this has always been an issue with some casinos. They contact you saying 'we are required to do this' - when i've went back and said NO, that's now how it is, they just kept repeating the same thing. Therefore, no wonder the practices across casinos vary when even the MLRO isn't sufficiently trained. Leads to the next question - if they're not even trained in the basics, how on earth are they in a position to review sensitive data to ensure compliance. Clue - they're not. And that's even before we go into whether they're trained in Data Protection etc. 

 

I'm not laughing at the consequences - they've recommended beefing up compliance teams so prepare for a Tsunami of requests. I just hope they've trained their staff before they do so otherwise the exercise is pointless. 

 

I might offer my services as i'm a member of the Risk Management Institute 

 

Anyone wishing to fire me 100 euro will be exempt from the diligence 

[pinnit2015]

PS i appear to have merged HTML5 and the UKGC thread responses 

[pinnit2015]

That's the thing man - me asking where my 12.50 Redbet bonus is has probably set off the Responsible Gambling Batsignal! 

 

Re their systems - the notice basically says they don't have any. They don't monitor customers, keep records or perform risk assessments. 

 

Instead? They ask for Selfies. 

[Fiekie247]

Some have made the HTML transition fine and tbh i hardly see a difference but there are some where the whole game feels different. 

 

Apparently they can't change the maths models or it'd need to go through testing/certification again - I'd be interested to know which one's did go through this - Netent have said none of theirs have which would imply they're the same...but i must admit the brain picks up on patterns and some are just too obvious to not notice.

 

HTML5 was meant to make slot experiences better, not worse 

 

Re the GC and the checks - it wouldn't happen but one thing it would do i stop the varying casino practices currently on the go. Some casinos interpreting it one one, some doing another. And quite frankly i'd rather, if i chose to submit the info, have it with the GC and not some of the casinos. 

 

The decision note re Casumo is interesting and for me tells it all - the staff at Casumo, including the MLRO (Money Laundering Reporting Officer) were not trained....now sorry, but this has always been an issue with some casinos. They contact you saying 'we are required to do this' - when i've went back and said NO, that's now how it is, they just kept repeating the same thing. Therefore, no wonder the practices across casinos vary when even the MLRO isn't sufficiently trained. Leads to the next question - if they're not even trained in the basics, how on earth are they in a position to review sensitive data to ensure compliance. Clue - they're not. And that's even before we go into whether they're trained in Data Protection etc. 

 

I'm not laughing at the consequences - they've recommended beefing up compliance teams so prepare for a Tsunami of requests. I just hope they've trained their staff before they do so otherwise the exercise is pointless. 

 

I might offer my services as i'm a member of the Risk Management Institute 

 

Anyone wishing to fire me 100 euro will be exempt from the diligence 

Correct!

 

We have to comply with a lot of requirements that holds sensitive information and provide them to untrained staff who do not possess the adequate skills and certifications to manage our most valuable possession(Information)

 

I mean I provide the casino with KYC docs etc, and you find that one "Hooligan"  uses my information in the wrong way and tomorrow I will have 6 bonds registered in my name ha ha ha(Worst Case Scenario).

 

Whenever I visit friends who stay in complexes or estates and I normally need to sign in with security before entering the premises, they normally ask for your license  as they need your ID/Security number for their record purposes... There was this one day I actually asked the security guard where does this information get send or what do you do with my my ID/Security Number and even asked why they needed it and they could not answer me.. Just there I declined and drove away...

 

Imagine the damage they can do with that information.

[Fiekie247]

PS i appear to have merged HTML5 and the UKGC thread responses 

Yes

 

I was actually wondering where does the Whole HTML and Netent discussion fit in here lol.

[pinnit2015]

Correct!

 

We have to comply with a lot of requirements that holds sensitive information and provide them to untrained staff who do not possess the adequate skills and certifications to manage our most valuable possession(Information)

 

I mean I provide the casino with KYC docs etc, and you find that one "Hooligan"  uses my information in the wrong way and tomorrow I will have 6 bonds registered in my name ha ha ha(Worst Case Scenario).

 

Whenever I visit friends who stay in complexes or estates and I normally need to sign in with security before entering the premises, they normally ask for your license  as they need your ID/Security number for their record purposes... There was this one day I actually asked the security guard where does this information get send or what do you do with my my ID/Security Number and even asked why they needed it and they could not answer me.. Just there I declined and drove away...

 

Imagine the damage they can do with that information.

I got escorted out of a British Telecom building once because, rather naively but mainly due to laziness, i asked one of the members of staff could i borrow their swipe card to go out of the building for a smoke. Ooops.

 

Me included, we're all just sitting one click away from a disgruntled employee releasing all the ID theft tools that someone needs.

 

Some casinos ask you to email the docs. Yes, unencrypted emailing of all this. Why are they not being hit?

 

I do feel a bit of sympathy for casinos - they've had to try and adapt fast to these regulations - previously they were just the guys who sold you the games etc, now their being asked to be forensic accountants, auditors, psychological profilers for RG...but at the same time, if Casumo can see fit to pay for expensive TV Adverts but not to train their staff, then that's on them. 

 

Trying to do it so fast though now, that they're making so many mistakes. 

 

And i was just gonna go and ask them for a 100% depo match. Oh well, that's that idea out the window

[pinnit2015]

PS prepare for more bans on e wallets like Skrill/Neteller by many - the fraud rings preferred choice of payment method. My heart won't bleed too much for them with their greedy fees and non existent customer support - Trustly is cheaper and better anyhow 

[Fiekie247]

I got escorted out of a British Telecom building once because, rather naively but mainly due to laziness, i asked one of the members of staff could i borrow their swipe card to go out of the building for a smoke. Ooops.

 

Me included, we're all just sitting one click away from a disgruntled employee releasing all the ID theft tools that someone needs.

 

Some casinos ask you to email the docs. Yes, unencrypted emailing of all this. Why are they not being hit?

 

I do feel a bit of sympathy for casinos - they've had to try and adapt fast to these regulations - previously they were just the guys who sold you the games etc, now their being asked to be forensic accountants, auditors, psychological profilers for RG...but at the same time, if Casumo can see fit to pay for expensive TV Adverts but not to train their staff, then that's on them. 

 

Trying to do it so fast though now, that they're making so many mistakes. 

 

And i was just gonna go and ask them for a 100% depo match. Oh well, that's that idea out the window

You're right...

 

TBH - Casumo never had anything to offer, not even bonuses for deposits, I have to wait for an email with an offer.

 

Seems like catastrophe is imminent

 

Lets see what the future holds with every casino needing to comply with UKGC regulations going forward at the speed of light. Guess we will see many operators will be closing their doors soon if the UKGC keeps on dishing out fines like these...

[Fiekie247]

PS prepare for more bans on e wallets like Skrill/Neteller by many - the fraud rings preferred choice of payment method. My heart won't bleed too much for them with their greedy fees and non existent customer support - Trustly is cheaper and better anyhow 

As I sad before Catastrophe is imminent brother...

 

Consider yourself lucky, as you have no idea of the feeling living in the country where options are limited and certain services are not available, which is the exact same reasons e-wallets works the best for some of us or as the only alternative...

 

I just hear about Trustly everywhere these days. too bad only in Europe...

[pinnit2015]

As I sad before Catastrophe is imminent brother...

 

Consider yourself lucky, as you have no idea of the feeling living in the country where options are limited and certain services are not available, which is the exact same reasons e-wallets works the best for some of us or as the only alternative...

 

I just hear about Trustly everywhere these days. too bad only in Europe...

To be fair Neteller have improved their operations but it's probably too little, too late. Love a rep to chime in but I'm led to believe that the bonus rings/frauds using these deposit methods is the primary driver for casinos stopping them....

 

Oh i forgot you can't use Trustly.... It's great. Been a bit of an issue with it i think recently - taking a little bit longer than usual, but generally it's instant. Basically does what Skrill etc does minus the fees. 

 

I use a separate account for it though as i'm not putting that bank statement in front of my mortgage company or they'd have a heart attack 

[pinnit2015]

True man, we don't really have any restrictions here - you guys have to check out depo and withdrawal methods whereas we don't tend to even look.....

[cocopop3011]

@Mr.P

 

Did you see the story the other in the Independent I think about the guy who won multi-million jackpot, spent thousands celebrating only to be told it was a glitch and the casino wouldn't pay. He's trying to sue for the money he spent celebrating. It was a high street booker I just can't remember which one. 

[ValDes]

This is what's happening when ''they'' (the nasty casinos) have no ears to hear HIS voice!

 

https://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/news-action-and-statistics/news/2018/Collaborate-and-know-your-customers-to-make-gambling-safer.aspx

 

Would have been funny if it wasn't tragic in fact... Remember, this is by far the only official gambling Regulatory Body worldwide which does not offer own complaints service.  <_>

[pinnit2015]

This is what's happening when ''they'' (the nasty casinos) have no ears to hear HIS voice!

 

https://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/news-action-and-statistics/news/2018/Collaborate-and-know-your-customers-to-make-gambling-safer.aspx

 

Would have been funny if it wasn't tragic in fact... Remember, this is by far the only official gambling Regulatory Body worldwide which does not offer own complaints service. 

His race will see me racing to a Costa Rica Casino.

 

There is something that doesn't sit right - casino's hit with multi million quid fines because wee Bob in London couldn't stop chasing the D on Bonanza.

 

What's also a bit unsettling is that Casumo and VS are two of the most trustworthy/stand up casino's. What about the 

 

Funny how the keynote doesn't address:

1. Casinos who offer services to UK customers, despite no licence,
2. Casinos that doesn't allow flushing/locking withdrawals, yet use delays to facilitate reversals
3. Casino's who have, pardon my eloquence, F You terms in their t's and c's
4. Casinos with plus 48 hour pending periods
5. Pending periods in general!
6. What about the BTG gamble features? You can't espouse the virtues of RG and think this is OK, surely?

I think casinos that have Take a Break function/cool off/action self exclusion when told etc are fulfilling their RG duties. They've given the person the tools to do something. Oh no...that's not enough....

 

Every time i type on this i change my stance a little bit. 

 

And yeah...well they're not gonna offer their own service as that'll mean they need to walk the walk 

 

George Orwell would have made a good CEO there. 

 

Getting to know your customers? Well maybe i don't want to know them

 

On the plus side - George Lusty - what a surname. Don't know if that is his name or simplly a statement of what George is