Where to discuss the possibility of rigged tables?

[kelapa]

I've watched the video twice but I can't really see it clearly from what I can see it just looks perfectly normal however I'm not a roulette player.

 

Don't you see that the ball falls on a certain number... but then gets up and starts "searching" for the nearest losing number?

 

This will happen endlessly, round after round after round.

It's impossible to win, although my theoretical chance of winning a round is between 60% and 85% (depending on how many chips I put on).

 

You don't play roulette, fine. But do the math. This is impossible.

[cocopop3011]

Don't you see that the ball falls on a certain number... but then gets up and starts "searching" for the nearest losing number?

 

This will happen endlessly, round after round after round.

It's impossible to win, although my theoretical chance of winning a round is between 60% and 85% (depending on how many chips I put on).

 

You don't play roulette, fine. But do the math. This is impossible.

 

How though? I actually didn't see the ball do that but if it did what you think how would that even be possible? For that ball to go to your losing number? As if personally aimed to make you lose?

[kelapa]

How though? I actually didn't see the ball do that but if it did what you think how would that even be possible? For that ball to go to your losing number? As if personally aimed to make you lose?

I'm a programmer; I can think of a few ways to make that possible. And a few reasons too (good old "greed" springs to mind).

 

Not being paranoid here. Something most definitely is happening.

And that's not a conclusion I reached in a few afternoons.

 

I'm not whining about a 20% chance bet not turning out in my favour after a few spins.

I'm talking about systematically losing every 60% - 85% chance bet, every day, indefinitely. Hundreds and hundreds of times.

And every other time, the ball does the aforementioned little trick, where it lands on a winning number, sits there for half a second, then calmly gets up and moves to the nearest losing number (run the video on fullscreen if you must).

 

Literally right NOW, as I type this, I have just placed seven bets in a row on 30 out of the 37 available numbers on the wheel.

All of them lost, as usual. Please, let this sink in for a moment. Thirty out of thirty-seven.

With all the good will in the world, it's NOT possible to deny that this really, truly is fraud.

[frankel]

hi kelapa I get your pain I really do been there and seen it for myself mate and have seen it go 25 to 30 times on red and black seen all those numbers not come in for 400 0r 500 spins not going in those dozen numbers you speak about 25 to 30 times, streets, half the wheel,blocks of numbers vosions etc not going in 6 number streets for 90 spins, etc,the losing runs are horrendous as someone else said on this thread earlier a bottomless pit, I have seen similar results on air wheels as I have done on normal roulette wheels I have seen in jump in red at the last second when I have bet on black and equally the same the other way around where I should of lost, also seen people win a lot of money from bounce outs,etc, I have seen the same number come in 4or 5 times on the bounce and many other weird events and I have said some really stupid things myself to people years ago about it not being right but when you see how bad the losing runs are on there own they don't need to fiddle live roulette and also I have met several other people who have seen more roulette than I have come to the same sort of conclusion I even seen one of my mates bet number 36 all night long from 8oclock until nearly 4.00 oclock in the morning and the croupier said right its the last tree spins of the night as they shut at 4.00 in those days and he said that's it I/m not betting that 36 number anymore I/v had enough he had bet on it for about 300 hundred spins so I put a bet on it for him and it went next door in number 11 and would believe it went in 36 the last 2 spins of the night and we never had a penny on it lol that was about 20 years ago and all my work with it since then I have watched 1 number over 37 thousand spins there are 37 numbers on a roulette wheel and would you believe that number came in nearly a thousand times and would you believe half way through on about 18,500 spins it had came in about 500 hundred times, so in lay mans terms I don't want to bore people to much but all my work over thousands of spins is telling me that it all levels back up again bare the house edge comes into play over thousands of spins but the losing runs are horrendous and people would need so much money for this could right a book on it and have payed to learn in the past, I get where you coming from mate some of your stats you have put up are shocking but I don't believe live roulette is fiddled.

[kelapa]

I get where you coming from mate some of your stats you have put up are shocking but I don't believe live roulette is fiddled.

 

Trust me, it is...

[cocopop3011]

Trust me, it is...

 

Well you don't have any proof and the video isn't proof either and considering that I think this topic now serves no purpose as no proof has been supplied.

[kelapa]

I was very surprised to see the "rigged roulette" topic locked. Nobody was out of line, people were contributing their experiences, evidence was posted.

What on earth was wrong with it? 

[cocopop3011]

I was very surprised to see the "rigged roulette" topic locked. Nobody was out of line, people were contributing their experiences, evidence was posted.

What on earth was wrong with it? 

 

But there was no evidence. The video you posted was not evidence that that game is rigged. I watched it numerous times and there was no proof that the bull jumped to deliberately land on your losing numbers.

 

We allow anyone to come here and give their opinions. When it comes to people thinking games are "rigged" this is an extremely sensitive matter to say the least and in order to throw such accusations we demand proof. IMO the video you posted was not proof so I didn't feel the need to keep that particular topic open.

 

If you'd like to discuss this further in this topic that is perfectly fine I am just letting you know we will only allow the discussion to go so far before we ask you to supply "more" proof. 

 

I'm sorry you felt the topic shouldn't have been locked but I still stand by my decision to do so.

[kelapa]

Well, that video was just one example of the ball jumping out of the winning area and into the nearest losing number. I have many others.

But how many is enough?

 

Let's put it this way..

 

See this bet?

Would you find it plausible if the ball lands on the ten unchipped numbers, twenty spins in a row?

 

Additionally: each of those spins, the ball appears to fall comfortably within the boundaries of the winning area. But after it has landed, the ball moves out of its winning slot and calmly "walks" over to the nearest losing number and abruptly stops there. The second spin in that video I posted was an excellent example of that.

 

Does that sound like unusual behaviour to you?

 

If yes, then you agree that something very, very strange is happening at Evolution's tables.

If no, then... then... come on, there is no "no" here. 

 

This is not an incident. This is what systematically happens at their tables. I can go there right this second and put that bet on, and the ball will fall on one of those ten numbers with 100% certainty. I've verified it hundreds of times.

[kelapa]

Just did a bunch of spins again.

 

 

That's my third attempt with the exact same numbers... loss after loss after loss. You can see the previous two results at the top right: 4 and 9.

 

Not cherrypicking. This is just the first thing that happens as soon as I try... anything.

I can't stress this enough: this happens NON-STOP, for days, weeks, months. It doesn't make a difference if I take a break (for an hour, a day or a week). The second I put money on Evolution's table, it's gone. No matter if my bet is a 98% guaranteed win.

[Afi4wins]

As much as I want to believe in everything that you've said and shown in your videos, Kelapa, trying to prove rigged tables is almost impossible for any player. Only people with the right authority can get the access necessary to check out if the tables are rigged or otherwise.

 

So, in such cases, we players can only make an official complaint to the relevant Gaming Authority, and hope that they would take all the necessary steps to do some serious checkings into these tables.

 

I do not doubt at all that such tables can be manually manipulated or controlled...in one way or another...but we cannot prove it by ourselves. 

[Afi4wins]

Also...are you by any chance playing at an Asian casino, Kelapa? Your nickname suggests we are from the same country...or region at least! 

[kelapa]

As much as I want to believe in everything that you've said and shown in your videos, Kelapa, trying to prove rigged tables is almost impossible for any player. Only people with the right authority can get the access necessary to check out if the tables are rigged or otherwise.

 

So, in such cases, we players can only make an official complaint to the relevant Gaming Authority, and hope that they would take all the necessary steps to do some serious checkings into these tables.

 

I do not doubt at all that such tables can be manually manipulated or controlled...in one way or another...but we cannot prove it by ourselves. 

 

Yeah, I'd figured that there wasn't any 100% proof that anyone could provide. Not without taking a plane to Malta, breaking into the studio and taking a peek under the hood of those wheels...

 

But these statistics don't lie. It's impossible for this to happen without tampering. I may not have proof, but I do have evidence towards it. I'm currently trying to figure out what agency I have to send it to. Trickier than I thought...

 

And I've been playing at the Unibet website, so nope, nothing Asian.

But I am half Indonesian, so that explains the username.

[Afi4wins]

Yeah, I'd figured that there wasn't any 100% proof that anyone could provide. Not without taking a plane to Malta, breaking into the studio and taking a peek under the hood of those wheels...

 

But these statistics don't lie. It's impossible for this to happen without tampering. I may not have proof, but I do have evidence towards it. I'm currently trying to figure out what agency I have to send it to. Trickier than I thought...

 

And I've been playing at the Unibet website, so nope, nothing Asian.

But I am half Indonesian, so that explains the username.

 

Half-Indonesian? Aaaah...no wonder! 

 

Anyway...there are other providers of Roulette...why don't you play them instead? 

If I were you, I'd just avoid playing Evolution table games...find another provider to play with...but I don't play table games at all. 

[kelapa]

Half-Indonesian? Aaaah...no wonder! 

 

Anyway...there are other providers of Roulette...why don't you play them instead? 

If I were you, I'd just avoid playing Evolution table games...find another provider to pay with...but I don't play table games at all. 

Well, this is not really about me playing or not playing. I just want this exposed. I want to see justice.

Ideally, I'd like to see my money back too, but I'm not counting on that.

 

Where are you from, btw?

[Afi4wins]

Well, this is not really about me playing or not playing. I just want this exposed. I want to see justice.

Ideally, I'd like to see my money back too, but I'm not counting on that.

 

Where are you from, btw?

 

Hehehe...we do share a common thing there mate!

 

See my Avatar? Thor...the guardian of peace and justice...that's my belief too...he may be a Myth...but I'm not! Hahaha. 

 

Me? I'm from your neighbouring country...Malaysia. 

[kelapa]

Hehehe...we do share a common thing there mate!

 

See my Avatar? Thor...the guardian of peace and justice...that's my belief too...he may be a Myth...but I'm not! Hahaha. 

 

Me? I'm from your neighbouring country...Malaysia. 

 

Howdy, neighbour. Ok, that sounds weird coming from Spain here, although I spent a few hours at Kuala Lumpur airport.

 

Now that you mention Thor... the ball on Evolution tables behaves exactly like Mjölnir (Thor's hammer, for those not in the know). It looks literally like an invisible hand is moving it to exactly the wrong numbers, and they don't care either that it looks unbelievably obvious.

 

The ball settles on one end of the wheel... sits still... then gets SUCKED out of that spot and RACES all the way to the other end, to the ONLY losing number. And no, it's not a normal curve caused by ball/wheel spin. I know physics, I know statistics. This is rigged. 110%.

 

After the 20th round in a row, you just have to laugh out loud. It's so ridiculously shameless.

 

If you don't put too many chips on the table, then the movements still look relatively natural. The ball then still has enough room to move in curves.

But the more numbers you chip, the fewer losing numbers it has left to pick from, the more bizarre its movements become. I wish I'd recorded the time when I experimented with this by gradually chipping more and more numbers, until there were only five free numbers left. The ball went increasingly crazy... it zig-zagged, it accelerated, it stopped mid-air. And not once did it land on a winning number, of course.

[kelapa]

For your viewing pleasure, here's what happened in the past two minutes:

Note how the ball always lands right next to the winning areas, usually just one spot off. Watch in slow-motion if you must.

 

Spin 1: The ball lands around the 0. "Can't have that", says Evolution. So the ball suddenly starts moving again, accelerates and doesn't stop until it reaches 23, on the opposite end of the wheel.

 

Spin 2: Ball is about to land on 16... then swings back in the opposite direction before magically slotting into one of only TWO losing numbers on that entire side of the wheel (31 and 9).

 

Spin 3: Ball lands on 26. "No way", says Evolution and executes a perfect backflip away from all the winning numbers. I was lucky to have at least half-chipped 2.

 

Spin 4: Ball touches down around 9, but it has too much momentum to stop dead this time. So it rolls and rolls until the nearest loser is found, exactly where the chipped area ends, as usual.

 

 

And, as I said, it gets far more extreme than that. I'll capture more of these moments next time I feel like wasting my money. 

[kelapa]

Oh yeah, and forget about the traditional outside bets.

 

If you put your money on red, it will fall on black, and vice versa. Thirty times in a row if it has to (not hyperbole; this has literally happened).

Same for 1-18 and 19-36.

 

I've tried 13-36 ten times in a row, followed by another two bets on 7-36 (!).

Nothing.

The odds of that are 1 in several million. 

[cocopop3011]

If they are as rigged as you say they are and if Evolution Gaming have that much of a personal vendetta against you why the heck and you still using your money to play?

 

I do have a small question so you can educate me because as I said previously I don't play Roulette: 'Are you the only member betting on the table or are there other players betting numbers and red or black too?' I have a reason for asking but I'll explain that after you have answered.

[kelapa]

If they are as rigged as you say they are and if Evolution Gaming have that much of a personal vendetta against you why the heck and you still using your money to play?

 

I do have a small question so you can educate me because as I said previously I don't play Roulette: 'Are you the only member betting on the table or are there other players betting numbers and red or black too?' I have a reason for asking but I'll explain that after you have answered.

Both good questions, with good answers (I hope).

 

As far as I can see, the only way to gather any evidence is by playing, and thereby provoking all these weird results. More people should do it (if they can spare it ). I know plenty of others have similar experiences with Evolution, but they just go play elsewhere, leaving Evolution to continue doing this to other people. I want to actually do something to stop it!

 

Yes, there are often other people betting at these tables. Some of those are bots, btw. Many people have noticed that the big winners never say a single word, not even when talked to, which has led to suspicions that these are fake accounts used as bait. I have my doubts about this, but that's the rumour floating around the chat. 

 

The reason you ask, I presume, is: Different players place different bets. Can't rip everyone off all at once!

That's what kept me skeptical for a long time.

 

One theory is that the roulette software takes all the different bets into account and then calculates the preferred outcome for minimum RTP. Thing is, that requires a certain amount of players to look credible. If it's late at night and there's only two or three people playing, then these poor people will lose many more spins than if there were more people covering more numbers. (Unless they coordinate their bets, so that they don't leave a number uncovered between them.  )

I have definitely noticed that winning at night is virtually impossible. The results are always far worse than during daytime. So that might support this theory (or one like it).

 

Also, if you keep an eye on the chat, you'll notice nobody ever cheers or anything. It's a non-stop stream of "cant win anything", "wtf lost 8 in a row", "winning is impossible here", etc. At least, so it has been since April of this year. Something seems to have happened then. A recalibration of sorts. Everyone noticed right away that the results were coming out very differently, and everyone started losing en masse. 

 

Before that moment, I - and other people - would frequently scrape together some very decent wins.

Whatever they did with the table around that time, it's been nothing but misery since.

[cocopop3011]

First of all - I'm the first person to admit when I've been wrong and maybe I was a little harsh on you in the previous topic so for that cocopop apologises   . It'll remain locked because it wasn't going anywhere however...I get you.

 

I can see you are coming from a good place. You genuinely believe the games are "rigged" and not just a sore loser. You see we get lots of those players here, when they lose they'll claim the game is rigged just out of spite. But I get you genuinely believe this as I've just mentioned. 

 

And yes you're right as to the reasons I asked my questions. The ball may have "jumped" as you say to your losing numbers but your losing numbers could be other players winning numbers which makes it sound like the software is just making it rigged for you which is impossible. IMHO.

 

You are not the first person to come here and complain about Evolution Gaming but I'm sorry I still don't see the videos you have posted as evidence. Evolution Gaming are huge if they were rigged don't you think they would have been caught out by now?

 

I can't honestly say whether it is or it isn't I certainly don't have enough expertise in the roulette field to pass such a judgement but all I can say is you are fighting a losing battle. You won't get anywhere without solid evidence and even then you will have a long battle ahead of you likely to cost you too!

 

I am happy to keep this thread open and to be honest I don't really know what else I can say on the matter. 

 

I'm sure Valdes will jump in with his view on the matter when he returns from holidays as this is more of his area of expertise. If you're going to keep trying then I wish you luck mate. 

[Afi4wins]

Well, honestly speaking...this thread should remain open...for other roulette players to read and take note.

 

I do not see the comments by Kelapa as degrading or unreasonable...and he is trying his best to let other unknowing players be aware of how Evolution roulette plays. I too have seen other videos showing how that metallic roulette ball can be remotely controlled without being noticed...and the way modern technology is today, this is not surprising at all!

 

Not only that, with Artificial Intelligence coming into play in roulette's algorithms, avoiding massive huge losses on the casino's side becomes a lot easier!

 

I'm not very sure of this...but if I'm not mistaken, I have read somewhere that all casino's equipment are manufactured by 'unlisted' manufacturers/suppliers...all for very obvious reasons! Every card, chip, table and roulette machines have some sort of electronic/magnetic chips in them! That huge roulette betting table, for example, is like a huge iPad...it acts as a touchscreen monitor...reading all the chips and positions for each coming spin on the wheel...for the 'hidden' program to read, control and regulate the outcome of each and every spin!

 

That nice-looking roulette wheel, another example, is actually a sophisticated piece of sh*tty machinery with all sorts of wired connections to each and every segment in the wheel. Notice how each segment separator is metal?!!! Why is that?!!! That's for magnetic manipulations of the metallic ball by electronic control by the regulating program!!!

 

If the manufacturers of these equipment ever made a declaration of how casino's equipment are actually produced...they'd probably 'disappear' the very next day!

 

Like I said before, casino is BUSINESS first...money matters is always FIRST....and all Gaming Authorities know this! If no modern electronic wizardry is ever involved in casino's business, can they ever hope to make money? 

[kelapa]

I'll reply properly tomorrow... but I just had to drop this one on you:

 

I tried to recreate the insane triple 5 scam that occurred two weeks ago.

Unfortunately, my recording proggie is misbehaving, so I didn't get this on video. But look here.

 

 

As you can see, I've got lotssss of numbers covered. Pay special attention to the number 24, and its neighbour 16. (The oval wheel on the right shows the positions of the numbers.)

So I played these exact numbers three times in a row. Each time, the ball made a weird curve to steer away from the winning areas... and landed on 16 three times in a row.

 

How about that, eh?

[Afi4wins]

These are visual proofs of how electromagnetic fields can regulate and control that metallic ball! 

 

Ask all casinos to use a ceramic or plastic roulette ball instead...and they'd tell you "go to hheelllll" !