Are We All "Always A Loser"?

[TomLinnane]

My brother brought up an interesting point to me as I went to go pickup a $500 withdrawal yesterday. He asked me, "In the 5 years you been playing on online casinos, are you really in the profit?" My immediate response was yes, but as I look back, my honest answer is no. I always want to hide away from the fact that every time I win money, I always end up depositing and give more back than I take in. I actually consider myself a good player who cashes out regularly, but I can't help but realize that without hitting a jackpot on some sort of game, I may just always be going against the odds of what an online casino will favor. 

 

My question to the players is I guess the same I have towards myself. Are you no matter what always somehow in the negative? Is online casinos really just the term entertainment at a price. I feel that although my cash outs can be appeasing at times, its hard to face the real number of money I put in to online casinos. This really for some odd reason made me stop and think about the risk/reward. Am I just always going to be a loser no matter how tight of a game I play?

[bigdk88]

My brother brought up an interesting point to me as I went to go pickup a $500 withdrawal yesterday. He asked me, "In the 5 years you been playing on online casinos, are you really in the profit?" My immediate response was yes, but as I look back, my honest answer is no. I always want to hide away from the fact that every time I win money, I always end up depositing and give more back than I take in. I actually consider myself a good player who cashes out regularly, but I can't help but realize that without hitting a jackpot on some sort of game, I may just always be going against the odds of what an online casino will favor. 

 

My question to the players is I guess the same I have towards myself. Are you no matter what always somehow in the negative? Is online casinos really just the term entertainment at a price. I feel that although my cash outs can be appeasing at times, its hard to face the real number of money I put in to online casinos. This really for some odd reason made me stop and think about the risk/reward. Am I just always going to be a loser no matter how tight of a game I play?

I hear ya! 1 day I turn 1 pound into 1,000 the next I can't even get 1pound up to 10pound! Slots are fickle machines man the best advice I can really give is try and only bet half of 1% of bankroll at a time max 1% this seems very tight but this strategy works lots! then when you double up the money change it to half of 1% or 1% of that and keep doing this until the slot either stops paying out or you have won enough cash . If playing RTG I managed to complete wagering recently quite easily on a game aladdins wishes turbo play and min bet turned 18 into 100 bucks(it had max cashout so I was fine with that) Try what I have said another idea is play the 3 reel 1 line or 3 line classic style slots if it is permitted these can have some real gems to win on! Lastly video poker another good bankroll builder before hitting the slots only keep good stuff and discard unless you have 3 of one hand a pair or at least 1 high card playing 10s or better is best way to stay afloat too! Good luck !

 

oh yeah another thing play games with the best paytables/multipliers in free spins or out of them!

Edited June 17, 2014 by bigdk88

[ValDes]

The answer is pretty obvious, if you ask me. Since the odds are always in casino favor, you cannot be ahead in a long term perspective, unless:

- some jackpot is hit;

- playing with 2 figure deposits and requesting 2 figure withdrawals;

- you are the luckiest bas*ard on the planet!

[cocopop3011]

My brother brought up an interesting point to me as I went to go pickup a $500 withdrawal yesterday. He asked me, "In the 5 years you been playing on online casinos, are you really in the profit?" My immediate response was yes, but as I look back, my honest answer is no. I always want to hide away from the fact that every time I win money, I always end up depositing and give more back than I take in. I actually consider myself a good player who cashes out regularly, but I can't help but realize that without hitting a jackpot on some sort of game, I may just always be going against the odds of what an online casino will favor. 

 

My question to the players is I guess the same I have towards myself. Are you no matter what always somehow in the negative? Is online casinos really just the term entertainment at a price. I feel that although my cash outs can be appeasing at times, its hard to face the real number of money I put in to online casinos. This really for some odd reason made me stop and think about the risk/reward. Am I just always going to be a loser no matter how tight of a game I play?

The answer is pretty obvious, if you ask me. Since the odds are always in casino favor, you cannot be ahead in a long term perspective, unless:

- some jackpot is hit;

- playing with 2 figure deposits and requesting 2 figure withdrawals;

- you are the luckiest bas*ard on the planet!

Great question Tom, and one that does get you thinking I suppose.

To be honest I'm not sure whether Valdes is agreeing with you or not - that he is always in the negative too.

 

But for me personally - No I don't think I am. I will speak as a couple on behalf of me and valleys because whatever money we win we always share and our depositing money will always come out of an account we both use.

 

I will take this month for instance - we are definitely in profit and have no way deposited more than we won. We only ever deposit £20 at a time and withdraw anything over £100. This is how we like to gamble. We are in no way high rollers, never will be, don't want to be, and we don't take it too seriously. We never chance those huge jackpots - its something we enjoy doing at a controllable level and when we win we take pleasure in spending the winnings on things other than gambling.

 

That's just us. That's not how everyone plays but it's how we enjoy it. I hope I have answered your question Tom. And thanks for asking it!

[cocopop3011]

P.s Tom, its questions like that why I love this place so much!

[ValDes]

...

To be honest I'm not sure whether Valdes is agreeing with you or not - that he is always in the negative too.

...

 

Care to explain? 

[cocopop3011]

Care to explain? 

I don't understand your post?

 

I didn't know whether you were saying yes you are in the negative or no your not??

[ValDes]

I don't understand your post?

 

I didn't know whether you were saying yes you are in the negative or no your not??

 

Let me explain it better then...

 

If we consider this matter in terms of pure mathematics, then yes, we are all losers since the odds of each and every casino game are in casino favor. Even if a game's RTP is set to 99.99%, it actually means that the casino will be on a profit after a predefined amount of spins/bets placed. But since it is not just pure math, but also luck involved, you never know. A loser one day and a millionaire on the next one...

[Icymod]

The answer is pretty obvious, if you ask me. Since the odds are always in casino favor, you cannot be ahead in a long term perspective, unless:

- some jackpot is hit;

- playing with 2 figure deposits and requesting 2 figure withdrawals;

- you are the luckiest bas*ard on the planet!

some jackpot is hit - Check

playing with 2 figure deposits and requesting 2 figure withdrawals - both can go one way or the other (win or lose)

you are the luckiest bas*ard on the planet! - No way! We can only be Lucky bast*ards only    but from the entire human race, nearly impossible

 

To tell you the truth and with this honest truth alone it'll surface a disappointing answer for some of you.......No, I won't see myself as a loser....at least not for a long time or maybe never. Like you said Tom, it's what I'd thought on a quick answer but when I thought about your question, 2 of my big hits have been large enough to be beyond the reach of the fallen category.....of being a loser! My $1600+ Jackpot hit on an $0.18 spin and a $2000 winning hand from a single $12.50 royal flush hand on MG video poker tells me enough that I'm far from becoming a loser. Control, wise decisions, limited deposits, making sure not to chase down your losses and betting wisely....also, being lucky is the #1 for success which is random are ways to avoid become one or leave plenty of resistance on making mistakes. It's how you make of it, "you'd reap what you'd sowed".

 

I'm not considered a high roller but I become one for a very short time just to see something happen......my curiosity just caught 2 big fishes during that time! Now I'm just the average player betting dollars per spin and doing it with "slow style, a clear wise head and an optimistic approach for expectations when witnessing either said outcomes". In all truth, some of us maybe losers but some of us are winners.....like people who've hit more than one jackpot or became what we all want to be......millionaires! 

 

The best advice I can give is to try "gambling for free". Use No deposits like the "Evil Queen of witches does", collect free spins that casinos offer when you leave them hanging or have made deposits there. Rarely some casinos offer loyalty points like Allslots does, you can turn that into bonus balance. Just hope that on your quest into doing this (if you plan to), the only thing that you won't lose would be your money......it's just time and effort are what'll be expendable!

 

By the way, I'm going to get drunk right now so I'll miss the first few comments on here

 

Let me explain it better then...

 

If we consider this matter in terms of pure mathematics, then yes, we are all losers since the odds of each and every casino game are in casino favor. Even if a game's RTP is set to 99.99%, it actually means that the casino will be on a profit after a predefined amount of spins/bets placed. But since it is not just pure math, but also luck involved, you never know. A loser one day and a millionaire on the next one...

And........a negotiator who knows how to twist my words and counter with a list of demands! 

[TomLinnane]

Thank you everyone for such great responses. Here are some of the issues I added up which really cause my downfall at times. I am from the U.S, so keep in mine my gaming options are very limited:

 

1. I am charged an international fee every time I deposit, and most sites do not cover that fee. (You would be surprised at how much an extra $1-3 adds up in fee's that are not funded into your gaming account. I've spent probably $1500 on fee's alone in 5 years, and that number is pretty extraordinary in regards to reflecting your profits and winnings.

 

2. My withdrawals are also charged a fee that is not covered. (When I withdraw, anywhere from $20-35 is charged out of my balance to cover the transaction fee. This makes it very difficult to truly always be satisfied with a withdrawal. I know it sounds silly, but if I withdraw $500, they take out $49. That number can ridiculously affect my winnings in the long run.

 

3. My main game is table blackjack, which statistically online does not favor a player as it would in a real casino. (Many casino use RTG platforms which are randomized every single hand. This realistically hurts my odds because you can't determine good or bad shoes, you can't attempt to count cards, and you can't always hit or double down every hand like a real casino most of the time. LIVE Dealer is my other option, but because they only use half the shoe, the statistical edge I normally can have being an advanced player in a real casino is then taken away online.)

 

[cocopop3011]

Let me explain it better then...

 

If we consider this matter in terms of pure mathematics, then yes, we are all losers since the odds of each and every casino game are in casino favor. Even if a game's RTP is set to 99.99%, it actually means that the casino will be on a profit after a predefined amount of spins/bets placed. But since it is not just pure math, but also luck involved, you never know. A loser one day and a millionaire on the next one...

Forget statistics though and games RTP's. Your personal experience would you say your in the positive or negative?

[bigdk88]

What softwares can you play in the States now? Is playtech and topgame still allowed?

[cocopop3011]

What softwares can you play in the States now? Is playtech and topgame still allowed?

Oooh..I'd like to know the answer to this question actually. Does anyone know?

[ValDes]

What softwares can you play in the States now? Is playtech and topgame still allowed?

 

Oooh..I'd like to know the answer to this question actually. Does anyone know?

 

Some Rival and Top Game powered casinos accept players from USA. But the most common choice is RTG. Playtech, NetEnt, Microgaming...none of them allow US players since 2006.

[catapultaudio]

Real Time Gaming most definitely are still accepting players from the USA and I believe it is actually the most platform over there at the moment, closely followed by Rival. 

 

Theres an amazing irony of course in the entire situation of citizens in the supposed land of freedom being blocked from this popular widespread recreational activity, supposedly for their own protection .. I find it absolutely outrageous and would campaign against it with all my strength if I lived in the USA.

 

I worry about what effect the forthcoming industry regulation in the UK will do to our choices for online gambling, and whilst I know with absolute confidence we will keep many options for all of the best softwares at present, we must be vigilant - campaigns such as the one trying to get FOBT machines banned in bookmakers shops are gathering support and are VERY dangerous for our civil rights as people that enjoy gambling. If they manage to get those machines banned you can bet your last pound that the online casinos will become the next target, these people are convinced they know what is best for us more than we ourselves do.

[ValDes]

Real Time Gaming most definitely are still accepting players from the USA and I believe it is actually the most platform over there at the moment, closely followed by Rival. 

 

Theres an amazing irony of course in the entire situation of citizens in the supposed land of freedom being blocked from this popular widespread recreational activity, supposedly for their own protection .. I find it absolutely outrageous and would campaign against it with all my strength if I lived in the USA.

 

I worry about what effect the forthcoming industry regulation in the UK will do to our choices for online gambling, and whilst I know with absolute confidence we will keep many options for all of the best softwares at present, we must be vigilant - campaigns such as the one trying to get FOBT machines banned in bookmakers shops are gathering support and are VERY dangerous for our civil rights as people that enjoy gambling. If they manage to get those machines banned you can bet your last pound that the online casinos will become the next target, these people are convinced they know what is best for us more than we ourselves do.

 

Hello and welcome to the AskGamblers forum.

 

Seems like you are quite in aware of what UKGC is 'cooking' upfront for online gamblers residing in UK. Could you please, share a bit more as I'm really curious to know the opinion of a regular online gambler.

[BBZ100]

It's a nice question Tom, but I thought everyone by now should realise that this is how the economy works.

 

It's indeed made in such a way that you are getting less than you are actually giving , but in short term luck-wise, it's what keeps you coming back.

 

No matter how much money you lose, you will almost always have a greater satisfaction because you've managed to win again!

It's a psihology anomaly mixed with gambling : in the same way live betting on sports  works, dogs, horses and other alike!

 

 

 

You bet a 100$ and you lose it. You bet another 5$ and win 80$. It happens as if your brain percieves the money you've given.

An experienced gambler will not be stressed too much about losing a 100$, but the average gambler that lost 100$, and won 80$ it's a pretty big thrill.

 

As if you are 'almost' out of the red zone of breaking even, but it's a trick we manage to do to ourselves.

 

 

This is the reason the US bans online casinos. Hellooo! Las Vegas is the capital of gambling, not to mention the US treasury and what not. They cannot afford to lose a strain of people that constantly cash in alot of money, you know how Vegas is!

 

I'd dare say that the phrase ' What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas ' is referred to your wallet and not the experience.

 

 

Anyways, I'm diggresing a bit but the point line is that it depends on the luck and the way that you play!

 

 

 

[Luciana]

I think that actually no one who is playing slots for fun and possibility to even get some money, is a loser. I'll explain shortly why I think this.

If you're a bonus hunter, playing only free bonuses without any money given to casino, you're not losing anything. Played the games, tried casino, had some (usually short) fun. But, you can even cash-out something if you're lucky.

On the other hand, if you deposit to get match bonuses, you're practically paying for your own fun and for the games. And if you lose all the money, you already had it doubled, tripled etc with plenty of time to play the games and amuse yourself! That's why I can't understand auto-play button

I see gambling as other gaming options. Even when we're playing pinballs or when we're playing table football, you buy the coin. You spend it, without a possibility to win some money (maybe extra coin in pinball), but you invested in your own fun That's how I see slot games also, even not being a fan.

[Luciana]

Why nobody commented my comment above?  

[Awena]

I love free bonuses, i used many of them at the wrong time but no problem. Other then that, we know what this industry is about and no one is forcing individual to play. 

 

I must admit, that all of us spending money on many different things, so why not to pay to have some fun and as long as deposit is low, I am ok with it, when I say low, I mean, as long as individual in not spending his family money or so. Me, now, I cant afford to play as I wish to, but when that time comes, I will deposit more and it wont be something so big. We all wish to fill our pockets with money, it is great feeling when you win and I dont think anyone is looser. 

The only sad thing is gambling addiction and when ppl stay without anything. 

[cocopop3011]

I think that actually no one who is playing slots for fun and possibility to even get some money, is a loser. I'll explain shortly why I think this.

If you're a bonus hunter, playing only free bonuses without any money given to casino, you're not losing anything. Played the games, tried casino, had some (usually short) fun. But, you can even cash-out something if you're lucky.

On the other hand, if you deposit to get match bonuses, you're practically paying for your own fun and for the games. And if you lose all the money, you already had it doubled, tripled etc with plenty of time to play the games and amuse yourself! That's why I can't understand auto-play button

I see gambling as other gaming options. Even when we're playing pinballs or when we're playing table football, you buy the coin. You spend it, without a possibility to win some money (maybe extra coin in pinball), but you invested in your own fun That's how I see slot games also, even not being a fan.

 

I love free bonuses, but I never quite take them as serious as when I playing with my own money. I know Katemak is very successful in wagering free no deposit bonuses, but that is few and far between with a lot of people. Whenever I take a free no deposit bonus I never have any hope on winning but when I play with my own money I always have hope. I never play for just fun although I always have fun its never just about that!

[ManchesterUnited2020]

Since i started gambling i'm down about £6k, i'm gonna try to forget about it now.

[Luciana]

I think that so many things around us, now can cause an addiction. Gambling just has a public and proven label, others are still taboo or just not scientifically proven enough. I'm considering online casinos and gambling, as normal way of entertainment, games like any others, even better than Farm or something similar that FB is have and which are such a waste of time.

[Icymod]

I think that so many things around us, now can cause an addiction. Gambling just has a public and proven label, others are still taboo or just not scientifically proven enough. I'm considering online casinos and gambling, as normal way of entertainment, games like any others, even better than Farm or something similar that FB is have and which are such a waste of time.

 

Ohh...I know what you mean especially after the comment above   

 

Can liking someone too much only in the forum be a type of addiction? (Luciana, my darling, which I never called you that before, I PM'ed you on how to take over the world, j/k it's not, nvm Kate stole my plans lol)

[Toiletseat]

I think that so many things around us, now can cause an addiction. Gambling just has a public and proven label, others are still taboo or just not scientifically proven enough. I'm considering online casinos and gambling, as normal way of entertainment, games like any others, even better than Farm or something similar that FB is have and which are such a waste of time.

Yes, but there are certain gradations in addiction. Smoking, gambling and drinking can have devastating effects on your live, Farm, ***** (unless cheating) and parachute jumping probably not. If the parachute won't open there is nothing left to ruin