PROOF: Fun Play Is Not The Same As Real Play!

[ValDes]

I have no idea ,what are you talking about, buuut I am on Afi side 

 

Hahahahahah!  Katy, you are absolutely amazing today!

 

And Afi, I can't imagine you could miss for long with such supporters, man!

[Afi4wins]

Hahahahahah!  Katy, you are absolutely amazing today!

 

And Afi, I can't imagine you could miss for long with such supporters, man!

 

   

[Irine]

Afi you're very so informative and this was an amazing findings! 

[Afi4wins]

Afi you're very so informative and this was an amazing findings! 

 

Ah! Thank so sweetie Irine! I did a lot of research and testing on it, collected the data and info, then posted it here to share it with all of AG readers. Glad you like it too.   

[helenakp]

Hahahahahah!  Katy, you are absolutely amazing today!

 

And Afi, I can't imagine you could miss for long with such supporters, man!

I am always amazing,dear Valdes   

[ValDes]

I am always amazing,dear Valdes   

 

Yes, yes...and humble, and modest and shy as well.

[honestdude]

Interesting topic and I admire the money, time and work Afi went through to come up with this outcome. I myself, having tested similar plays, but not as extensive, personally found a difference in fun vs real play. I lost quite a bit trying it out.

On the topic of if the outcome is different when you either click stop or let the reels spin themselves, I have to kind of agree with Val since the nanosecond you click the final result is pre-determined BUT, as Afi said, YOU NEVER KNOW.  My experience with this was when I played thousands on a certain game called Flip and I thought, or it seemed like I had the game figured out. I even showed this to some friends on how if I clicked at that certain time as the first reel was spinning, I increased my chances of winning . Yes, I know, this could only be coincidence, but it is difficult to explain how  I was withdrawing thousands every week playing this game and it was like hey, I don't need to work anymore. There is a flaw and I found it.  

Guess what happened. They finally must have noticed and they upgraded the game. Now call it a coincidence but I must have put everything I won, (as most of us all do eventually), and since then, I never hit the same sequence nor won any amount above $200. Coincidence? 

Anyhow, Casinos have been caught many times for rigged games, softwares can be easily modified with a single switch I mean if they couldn't then how can they actually have game competitions and various "promissed" outcomes in certain time frames?

This was my experience and as for the testing done on these softwares well let's face it. We are talking billions of $ and it has been proven that there has been corruption on even larger entities who test through bribes and kickbacks so why not in the billion dollar casino world ? 

So, I agree with both Alfi and Val but my own experience, I lean towards Alfi's testing simply because of my own observations. 

Those that play often, wouldn't you agree that somehow you already know how or when the game will pay or not simply by observing the certain behaviour of the game ? 

 

 

   

 

[pinnit2015]

Anyhow, Casinos have been caught many times for rigged games:

Who is this then exactly? The Gametech group for example was dealing in pirated games - i know of NO software company, with a decent licence at least, that has been found guilty of selling 'rigged' games to the casinos.

larger entities who test through bribes and kickbacks so why not in the billion dollar casino world ? 

Again, not one whistleblower has come forward and there's no evidence to suggest this has happened. Can it happen? Of course it can - you target a guy with money problems in a testing lab to turn a blind eye, hope that you can then bride his boss and his boss to sign off. But again, nothing. That's a whataboutery argument - you could apply that to literally anything in the world. Local Council agrees to planning permission to build on greenbelt land? Oh, must be the rich developers bribing the town hall officials - that's why we have controls and checks and balances in place. 

 

And let's be honest, if you were rigging a game would you not do it in such a way that the punters wouldn't notice? Rather, where you see patterns is part of gamblers fallacy.

Maybe years down the line there will be shown to be a global rigging conspiracy but until something tangible is shown I'm playing under the assumption that all games, issued by those reputable software companies and hosted by the same reputable casinos, are legit. 

[Afi4wins]

Wow...reading back 5 years later after posting up this topic was walking down memory lane for me...thanks to Honestdude for the time zap, hehehe.

Whatever it is, whatever anyone else may think, I am still a firm believer in what I have said before...that fun play can never be the same as real play. There are indeed many other interlacing factors within the mechanisms of playing a game, that actually causes very slight fluctuations/digressions/call-them-what-you-want in the outcomes of the game.

Take the Jackpot version of Mega Moolah Isis, for example. Why this game? Simply because I am very familiar with the non-jackpot version, but have hardly ever played on the jackpot version. One good session on the jackpot version and I found so many differences in the way the game played and paid! Is the game rigged? Of course not! What makes the difference is the jackpot mechanism coming into play, simple as that.

Well, we can go on and on debating on this, without ever coming to any conclusive outcome...but doesn't matter...my intention was purely to make each and every gambler be aware of such differences in the 2 modes of play, which are more evident in some games, almost cannot be detected in others, but are nonetheless there! 

[cocopop3011]

Wow from me too! I still remember you posting this topic can't believe it was all those years ago and so much has happened and indeed changed since then. I've never been a huge fan of fun play but now more than ever I just don't have the time to try fun play.

And, since I often have gaps in my play now, with some months only seeing my making a single deposit, by the next time I make my deposit a few new games have come out and I'm jumping straight in in real mode. But tbh I've been guilty of this since I started playing

@Afi4wins Do you still carry out such testing on new games?

[Afi4wins]

3 hours ago, cocopop3011 said:

 

Do you still carry out such testing on new games?

Naaah...I don't need to test them nowadays cos I already know that however a new game plays in fun mode, it could and would play disastrously in real mode! I play in fun mode purely to see what the features can do and how the payouts would be like, but usually, looking at the very low paytables alone would deter me from even testing them out...never mind playing them with my real money...I'd just be wasting them away! Hahaha. 

[pinnit2015]

The Gameart one's that VS were forced to pull must have been set with an RTP of 15000% - they were firing out bonus rounds every 11 spins and minimum 100x.

Didn't do much to defend the whole 'slots aren't rigged' debate 

 

 

[pinnit2015]

Personally, i don't have a problem if the RTP of the demos were inflated/maths different - as long as players are told this. The games company may wish to do this to show people what the features look like in a game (though, they could just have a 'show feature' button).

I don't play in demo  mode but i imagine it's like being on a diet and watching the rest of the people tuck into a succulent Double Cheeseburger, whilst you fight it out with the local rabbit for the last piece of lettuce. 

 

[cocopop3011]

On 2/22/2019 at 8:26 PM, pinnit2015 said:

Personally, i don't have a problem if the RTP of the demos were inflated/maths different - as long as players are told this. The games company may wish to do this to show people what the features look like in a game (though, they could just have a 'show feature' button).

I don't Play in demo  mode but i imagine it's like being on a diet and watching the rest of the people tuck into a succulent Double Cheeseburger, whilst you fight it out with the local rabbit for the last piece of lettuce. 

 

Did you have to mention a double cheeseburget when I'm trying to lose my babyweight

[honestdude]

On 2/21/2019 at 7:37 PM, pinnit2015 said:

Anyhow, Casinos have been caught many times for rigged games:

Who is this then exactly? The Gametech group for example was dealing in pirated games - i know of NO software company, with a decent licence at least, that has been found guilty of selling 'rigged' games to the casinos.

larger entities who test through bribes and kickbacks so why not in the billion dollar casino world ? 

Again, not one whistleblower has come forward and there's no evidence to suggest this has happened. Can it happen? Of course it can - you target a guy with money problems in a testing lab to turn a blind eye, hope that you can then bride his boss and his boss to sign off. But again, nothing. That's a whataboutery argument - you could apply that to literally anything in the world. Local Council agrees to planning permission to build on greenbelt land? Oh, must be the rich developers bribing the town hall officials - that's why we have controls and checks and balances in place. 

 

And let's be honest, if you were rigging a game would you not do it in such a way that the punters wouldn't notice? Rather, where you see patterns is part of gamblers fallacy.

Maybe years down the line there will be shown to be a global rigging conspiracy but until something tangible is shown I'm playing under the assumption that all games, issued by those reputable software companies and hosted by the same reputable casinos, are legit. 

Well, I mentioned that were was documented proof on whistle blowers  that have found some cheating or at least whereby the poker players were actual tied to the casinos and nobody knew till they actually investigated. I don't believe I mentioned "reputable software companies or casinos" but if you google whistleblowers for on-line casinos or software companies, you will find quite a few and some have or are being investigated. What one analyst mentioned is there was no way that even testing companies would have access to some of their games. I read one article which quoted the following: " here is one link I found: https://medium.com/@alexstargame/how-do-online-casinos-cheat-players-25a835df75df 

Since the RNG uses formulae to generate results, some may start to have suspicions whether or not the game organizers can fiddle with the algorithms. There are special testing agencies, which check casino game algorithms, thus fighting malpractice. On the other hand, casinos undergo licensing only in the countries where gambling is legalized. But as we know, because most countries have banned gambling, 70% of the industry is illegal, so there is no way for the majority casinos to have licenses. As a rule, it is impossible to check the fairness of online casinos, all the data about game algorithm is hidden from the players and is stored on the organizers` servers, which no testing agencies can reach.

That is why the trust of the players in the online casino industry has been disrupted.

 

[honestdude]

20 minutes ago, honestdude said:

Well, I mentioned that were was documented proof on whistle blowers  that have found some cheating or at least whereby the Poker players were actual tied to the casinos and nobody knew till they actually investigated. I don't believe I mentioned "reputable software companies or casinos" but if you google whistleblowers for on-line casinos or software companies, you will find quite a few and some have or are being investigated. What one analyst mentioned is there was no way that even testing companies would have access to some of their games. I read one article which quoted the following: " here is one link I found: https://medium.com/@alexstargame/how-do-online-casinos-cheat-players-25a835df75df 

Since the RNG uses formulae to generate results, some may start to have suspicions whether or not the game organizers can fiddle with the algorithms. There are special testing agencies, which check casino game algorithms, thus fighting malpractice. On the other hand, casinos undergo licensing only in the countries where gambling is legalized. But as we know, because most countries have banned gambling, 70% of the industry is illegal, so there is no way for the majority casinos to have licenses. As a rule, it is impossible to check the fairness of online casinos, all the data about game algorithm is hidden from the players and is stored on the organizers` servers, which no testing agencies can reach.

That is why the trust of the players in the online casino industry has been disrupted.

 

 

[honestdude]

Just now, honestdude said:

Here is one link I found informative but do not mention any wrong doing : https://www.gamblingsites.com/blog/15-things-you-didnt-know-about-online-gambling-11655/

 

[pinnit2015]

Well I've yet to see (unless I've missed) any of your slot big boys (PNG/Netent/BTG/MG) having faced criminal charges for fraudulent practices as part of any whistleblower coming forward.

I agree with the point re licences re Curacao - they don't care about players and fairness and Costa Rica don't hand out gambling licences, they hand out business ones. Totally worthless. 

It depends on how you also perceive or interpret the word rigged - some games are designed to keep players playing as long as possible (Time on Device), but with a reduced chance of a substantial cash out. You might not like them but doesn't mean they are nefarious/rigged. 

I don't see how placing assurances with 'good' licensing jurisdictions' testing is any different from me picking up various other products and having assurances that they're done to the requisite standard. Is it possible to fiddle with it - absolutely. I'm not sure of the controls in place to stop a game passing the RNG testing and then, prior to release or during the next two months, changing that. Then, knowing there are going to be ad-hoc testing sessions coming, changing it back to the factory settings so to speak.

Can't comment on the link posted as I don't know how qualified the person is to make statements like 'no testing agency can get into' (how do they know what the testing agency has access to for example)- i would say that they state that The algorithm can be “rigged” so that the casino remains the real winner ;    Well, that's hardly a surprising fact tbh. 

Some of the requirements for the RNG checks are: Game output is randomly generated, output is unpredictable, as well as rules disallowing compensated games. 

I'm not naive to think stuff may come out in the future - after all, with VW it did courtesy of a WB. But until, or if it does happen, I'll be of the opinion that the slots are fair and i'm as likely to win today as i was yesterday, and that's all i need tbh.