Complaints Procedure is Failing players

[Ghostnipple]

Askgamblers will not investigate any complaints that relate to a casinos terms of service (tos).
Casino's are aware of this policy and are now using it as a way to avoid dealing with complaints from players via the Askgamblers procedures. Please consider the following:

1: Casinos can put what they like in their tos. Also, they can and do change those tos at the drop of a hat.
2: It is virtually impossible for an inexperienced player to fully understand the significance of those conditions or envisage the context of how a casino's staff may choose to interpret or apply those tos.
3: Many conditions in existing Casino's tos would be invalidated in a court of law, but few player's have the stomach to take an issue that far.
4: Casinos avoid going to court, so grossly unfair conditions are never publicly challenged or ruled invalid or illegal.

Casino's don't like having their dirty laundry washed in public, which is why they don't often go to court. Askgamblers have been doing this with their complaints procedure. So in order to avoid having to deal with complaints from Askgamblers, casino's are now opting to include many of the "complaint related" issues into their tos. When a complaint arises Casinos simply point to their tos and Askgamblers  informs the complainant "sorry we can't help you". I understand why Askgamblers will not deal with tos related issues. However the following problem is real and is not going away.

Players with reasonable and legitimate complaints are excluded from the Askgamblers complaints procedures.

Askgamblers can choose to ignore this or they can attempt to address it somehow. My question is what can Askgamblers do to address this problem?

 

[cocopop3011]

1 hour ago, Ghostnipple said:

Askgamblers will not investigate any complaints that relate to a casinos terms of service (tos).
Casino's are aware of this policy and are now using it as a way to avoid dealing with complaints from players via the Askgamblers procedures. Please consider the following:

1: Casinos can put what they like in their tos. Also, they can and do change those tos at the drop of a hat.
2: It is virtually impossible for an inexperienced player to fully understand the significance of those conditions or envisage the context of how a casino's staff may choose to interpret or apply those tos.
3: Many conditions in existing Casino's tos would be invalidated in a court of law, but few player's have the stomach to take an issue that far.
4: Casinos avoid going to court, so grossly unfair conditions are never publicly challenged or ruled invalid or illegal.

Casino's don't like having their dirty laundry washed in public, which is why they don't often go to court. Askgamblers have been doing this with their complaints procedure. So in order to avoid having to deal with complaints from Askgamblers, casino's are now opting to include many of the "complaint related" issues into their tos. When a complaint arises Casinos simply point to their tos and Askgamblers  informs the complainant "sorry we can't help you". I understand why Askgamblers will not deal with tos related issues. However the following problem is real and is not going away.

Players with reasonable and legitimate complaints are excluded from the Askgamblers complaints procedures.

Askgamblers can choose to ignore this or they can attempt to address it somehow. My question is what can Askgamblers do to address this problem?

 

Actually, this is not true!

It entirely depends on the complaint. However, if the player is in clear breach of the terms and conditions, how can we possibly accept a complaint? The player signed up fully accepting the terms and conditions! Most likely the player in question didn't read them, but agreed they read them when they registered or took a bonus. if the player had read them, they never would have broken the terms and conditions and wouldn't need to open a complaint in the first place

So yes to some extent, they won't accept a clear breach. However, it's a case-by-case basis.  If terms and conditions are misleading or vague something like that, then the player has a chance of the complaint being accepted. 

Do you really believe complaints should be accepted when players clearly have not read the terms?  

Could you maybe give me an example of a case that you are referring to? 
 

[Jeanke08]

2 hours ago, Ghostnipple said:

Askgamblers will not investigate any complaints that relate to a casinos terms of service (tos).
Casino's are aware of this policy and are now using it as a way to avoid dealing with complaints from players via the Askgamblers procedures. Please consider the following:

3: Many conditions in existing Casino's tos would be invalidated in a court of law, but few player's have the stomach to take an issue that far.
 

 

That's not true either, I often thought about this and believe me, if such event where I'm 99,9% (that's one ***** of an RTP) sure of my case, I would look up the most notorious lawyer in the world when it comes to taking gambling entities down.

Whether an online casino itself, an affiliate, audit or license seal supplier.

I don't know if kickstarter still exists but if not some other public platform where you can raise issue and money needed for it.

Football changed (for the worse) with the Bosman-arrest but I wouldn't mind changing this industry with a Jan-arrest.

[Ghostnipple]

15 hours ago, jan duchau said:

That's not true either, I often thought about this and believe me, if such event where I'm 99,9% (that's one ***** of an RTP) sure of my case, I would look up the most notorious lawyer in the world when it comes to taking gambling entities down.

Whether an online casino itself, an affiliate, audit or license seal supplier.

I don't know if kickstarter still exists but if not some other public platform where you can raise issue and money needed for it.

Football changed (for the worse) with the Bosman-arrest but I wouldn't mind changing this industry with a Jan-arrest.

I accept your point, but what is true for one person may not be true for 100 others players. As I say most players don't have the stomach for that fight, or if they do push things that far then the casino would rather drag it out for as long as possible and then eventually settle. The point I'm trying to make is that, any unfair and misleading,  practices are never tested in a court of law. Casinos can write what they like in their TOS and change it all at the drop of a hat.

[cocopop3011]

21 minutes ago, Ghostnipple said:

I accept your point, but what is true for one person may not be true for 100 others players. As I say most players don't have the stomach for that fight, or if they do push things that far then the casino would rather drag it out for as long as possible and then eventually settle. The point I'm trying to make is that, any unfair and misleading,  practices are never tested in a court of law. Casinos can write what they like in their TOS and change it all at the drop of a hat.

Yes, unfortunately, I have to agree with you there. I've seen it happen so many times. We've had players come here with issues and I'm absolutely fighting their corner, but there are some casinos that definitely find those loopholes and shady practices, and it falls out of our hands. AG would love to help everyone, I mean I know I would personally, but there has to be rules and guidelines somewhere. 

And also on the flip side, while there are shady casinos and terms and conditions, there are also shady players who know full well they broke the rules but try and pretend they didn't. It's swings and roundabouts isn't it.

[Ghostnipple]

On 2/28/2023 at 12:58 AM, cocopop3011 said:

Actually, this is not true!

It entirely depends on the complaint. However, if the player is in clear breach of the terms and conditions, how can we possibly accept a complaint? The player signed up fully accepting the terms and conditions! Most likely the player in question didn't read them, but agreed they read them when they registered or took a bonus. if the player had read them, they never would have broken the terms and conditions and wouldn't need to open a complaint in the first place

So yes to some extent, they won't accept a clear breach. However, it's a case-by-case basis.  If terms and conditions are misleading or vague something like that, then the player has a chance of the complaint being accepted. 

Do you really believe complaints should be accepted when players clearly have not read the terms?  

Could you maybe give me an example of a case that you are referring to? 
 

https://www.askgamblers.com/complaint-guidelines
Violation of casino or bonus terms
Please keep in mind that in case of a violation of casino and/or bonus terms, the AskGamblers Complaint Team will, unfortunately, be unable to help you. 


Im not being critical of Askgamblers, they are right not to get involved when it comes to anything contractual between two parties. My question is, is there anything that can be done, that doesnt expose Askgamblers to legal shenanigans.

[Afi4wins]

21 minutes ago, Ghostnipple said:

https://www.askgamblers.com/complaint-guidelines
Violation of casino or bonus terms
Please keep in mind that in case of a violation of casino and/or bonus terms, the AskGamblers Complaint Team will, unfortunately, be unable to help you. 


Im not being critical of Askgamblers, they are right not to get involved when it comes to anything contractual between two parties. My question is, is there anything that can be done, that doesnt expose Askgamblers to legal shenanigans.

I think what @Ghostnipple is not fully grasping is the fact that Askgamblers is only a forum for its community and does not have any licensing rights to do any adjudication nor be an arbitrator for its members.

Hopefully, upon becoming a fully Public Owned company, Askgamblers may decide to take on some of that arbitration rights, but that would also call for a restructuring of the entire company and its licensing.

[cocopop3011]

44 minutes ago, Ghostnipple said:

Please keep in mind that in case of a violation of casino and/or bonus terms, the AskGamblers Complaint Team will, unfortunately, be unable to help you. 

Yes, so basically what I already explained, If a player broke the terms and conditions the complaint can't be accepted because the player agreed to the casino when they registered that they read them. If they had read the, then they wouldn't have broke them. 

90% of the time, the player didn't actually read the terms. Are all guilty of this though? Maybe! 

But as a player myself, If I took a bonus for example without reading the terms and then something happened, and I realised I broke the terms., I wouldn't attempt to open a complaint knowing full well it was my fault. I'd take it on the chin and learn from my mistake. 

[Ghostnipple]

7 minutes ago, Ghostnipple said:

It entirely depends on the complaint. However, if the player is in clear breach of the terms and conditions, how can we possibly accept a complaint? The player signed up fully accepting the terms and conditions! Most likely the player in question didn't read them, but agreed they read them when they registered or took a bonus. if the player had read them, they never would have broken the terms and conditions and wouldn't need to open a complaint in the first place

You have no argument with me on that point, I completely agree. Some players will read TOS and Privacy statement documents, before clicking on agree but they are a very small minority.

I have one recommendation. The term Violation  suggests criminal intent to do harm. If Askgamblers are keen to maintain an image of impartial objectivity, then I'd suggest "breaking conditions" would be far less inflamatory. I may be making another assumption there.

 

 

 

[Ghostnipple]

4 hours ago, Afi4wins said:

I think what @Ghostnipple is not fully grasping is the fact that Askgamblers is only a forum for its community and does not have any licensing rights to do any adjudication nor be an arbitrator for its members.

Hopefully, upon becoming a fully Public Owned company, Askgamblers may decide to take on some of that arbitration rights, but that would also call for a restructuring of the entire company and its licensing.

Yeah I understand that, there are a lot of sites online offering dispute resolution between players and casinos.

I agree with AskGamblers policy regarding TOS.
I'm just stating that a problem exists. for example
A friend of mine won 160k  over a few days, last week, with an online casino. They blocked his withdraw and took his entire balance, saying he had had exceeded the max bet amount which they claimed was a condition on sign-up. Max bet or otherwise, he tendered an offer and they accepted the bets, if he had lost those bets, I doubt they'd have issued him with a refund.

[cocopop3011]

3 hours ago, Ghostnipple said:

A friend of mine won 160k  over a few days, last week, with an online casino. They blocked his withdraw and took his entire balance, saying he had had exceeded the max bet amount which they claimed was a condition on sign-up. Max bet or otherwise, he tendered an offer and they accepted the bets, if he had Lost those bets, I doubt they'd have issued him with a refund.

Aha, a great example to use in this case actually. 

So, your friend would know the max bet rule if he had checked the terms and conditions. HOWEVER - I also agree that ALL CASINOS should have max bet protection in place to prevent this from happening. So, yep I also agree that the fact they accepted his bets sucks, but there's nothing we can do since the casino has the TOS to defend them, had your friend read them, he'd have gotten his winnings. 

So, I totally understand where you are coming from with this. We can't accept the complaint and that sucks for your friend. I totally get it  

[Jeanke08]

Ok people,

I ended up in an appropriate to this topic situation.

As it concerns Royal Stars Casino, which has just been given a thread in which the rep can respond, the situation being forwarded to the employees/management whom this concerns -I assume at least following live chat conversations and their final words in which they told me this- I wanted to give them some time by not complaining directly in their topic and see where this leads...

 

Everything I say I have proof on, prntscrn's, chat transcripts, the whole package.

 

- So after depositing €60 and making use of the Royal Wager Free Welcome Bonus I started my evening losing most on Fury of Odin but when the real money was wagered, I sought other games to multiply the bonus money, knowing full well that any withdrawal would be reduced with €60 sticky bonus money.

I played Colt Lightning producing a x162 win, Dinopolis x304 win and a x219 win on Hot Scatter Deluxe.

The first glitch happened when exiting HSD and the money won not being added to balance followed by me contacting live chat, been told to log out, enter game and check game history; it says No History Found For This Session and thus they asked  to clear cookies and cache.

I just quit Firefox and restarted my PC (which wasn't necessary because Firefox deletes all cookies and cache when exiting - settings are chosen this way).

 

After coming back I chose Vivaldi this time, logged in and money was there indeed.

So I continued & played some games until I on '8 Tiger Gold Megaways' from Skywind won x977 (that screenshot I'll include in the Slots Review part of the site.

When exiting the game for the second time that evening money wasn't added to balance so I contacted live chat again.

A whole procedure of contacting live chat every time and getting another operator this whole ordeal lasted from 0:15 to approx 3:15

To try everything from their end I even installed Opera as last attempt (don't know any Technical aspect that would've changed anything but ok....)

I'll included the last transcript aswell so you can see the promise they made (BTW from all chat's I had there was one not send to my e-mail so I copy pasted the text inside, better be safe).

EDIT: as the transcript .jpg isn't clear enough to read, here is that conversation:

Chat on www.royalstarscasino.com   Conversation started on : Tuesday, February 28, 2023, at 01:45 (GMT+0)
[01:45]	visitor-username-changed new : anonymous
[01:45]	visitor-username-changed old : anonymous new : janduchau
[01:45]	janduchau: hello can Anna talk
[01:45]	Anna has joined the conversation
[01:45]	Anna: Hi there
[01:45]	janduchau:
[01:46]	janduchau: thx ... first time ever someone the same, i'll remember this forever
[01:46]	janduchau: so...
[01:46]	Anna: hahahahahha
[01:46]	Anna: Tell me it worked from Opera
[01:47]	janduchau: to log in
[01:47]	janduchau: yeah
[01:47]	janduchau: didn't do anything yet so...shoot
[01:47]	janduchau: fresh browser
[01:49]	Anna: Oh I really thought it would work
[01:49]	Anna: Let's take a look
[01:49]	janduchau: what work?
[01:50]	Anna: The game from Opera
[01:50]	janduchau: let me try
[01:50]	Anna: Sure, I'll be here
[01:51]	janduchau: nopes
[01:51]	janduchau: it stays empty
[01:52]	janduchau: what is kinda normal from a technical standpoint
[01:53]	Anna: Yes, this kind of thing is a bit odd, actually. But just a second to check that for you again, please.
[01:53]	janduchau: ok
[01:54]	janduchau: good news, transcripts did come in in the meantime
[01:56]	Anna: Great
[01:57]	Anna: Still, I will forward this case to the relevant team, so, could you provide me a bit more details of the device or devices and browsers that you've tried on?
[01:57]	janduchau: sure
[01:57]	janduchau: so i opened and deposited through firefox
[01:58]	janduchau: up until problem with Hot Scatter Deluxe from Amatic
[01:59]	janduchau: contacted support , needed to clear cache/cookies so i restarted ... solved
[02:00]	janduchau: but I entered with vivaldi, so i stayed and played up until problem with 8 Tigers Gold Megaways and saw no live chat symbol so contacted live through Firefox
[02:00]	janduchau: in out, in out, up until opera and now this
[02:01]	Anna: Got it, and which device or devices did you try from?
[02:02]	janduchau: all three , when they asked me to, even 3x / browser which is useless.
[02:02]	janduchau: but i notice now that i have a prntscrn from hot scatter deluxe
[02:02]	janduchau: there was no game history either but it was solved
[02:02]	janduchau: how do they solve this so quickly then but not now
[02:03]	janduchau: and if you meant by devices ... all three via pc
[02:03]	janduchau: don't do mobile
[02:03]	Anna: Great! Just a second, please
[02:04]	janduchau: is that the problem, you can't recognise my device?
[02:06]	Anna: Honestly, t his kind of case needs to be checked by our team and with the game provider as well. So,   they will take a deeper look at it. As soon as we get any more information about it, you will be notified via e-mail.
[02:07]	janduchau: i don't need to e-mail myself with all transcripts and prntscrn's i have and took?
[02:07]	Anna: If you rather, sure, you can send all the transcripts, no problem.
[02:09]	janduchau: in what manner pref. Because half the time when i upload something through chat or even a link, you can't click any so what will be thrown out through e-mail...easiest would be for me to pack everything in .rar file but ik know that flyer won't land
[02:10]	Anna: Sure, no problem. You can keep all the  transcripts just in case hehe
[02:11]	janduchau: so you will take care of communicating this to support?
[02:11]	janduchau: all prntscrn's needed i've uploaded through live
[02:11]	janduchau: i have some extrra ones but unsure they matter
[02:11]	Anna: Yes, they are already aware of your case and  you should receive news soon, no worries
[02:12]	janduchau: okay, how much time does this normally take?
[02:12]	janduchau: i'm not impatient, just would like a clear timeframe so i know when to proceed from my end
[02:12]	janduchau: if neccesary
[02:13]	janduchau: your rep was @ ASKG today in a thread Royal Stars Casino began I believe
[02:13]	Anna: Sure, it's understandable. However, I  can't give you an exact time estimate on how long this will take to resolve, but it is also in our best interest to be done as soon as possible.
[02:14]	janduchau: uhu and believe me I understand these growing pains
[02:14]	janduchau: so we're good for now
[02:15]	janduchau: thx Anna, will play another 15mins and then of to bed or i'll miss my alarm
[02:15]	Anna: No, thank you for your patience and understanding
[02:15]	janduchau: no sweat
[02:15]	janduchau: cheers

 

Today I received no e-mail concerning the case being resolved but I did receive a promo, which I believe is intentional and is as toxic as they come.

I'll lastly include the Welcome gift promo also so you can evaluate.

Isn't it common knowledge that no 2 bonuses can be activated at the same time? So if I would spin this poisoned apple I would agree to lose all money from previous bonus still active...which is still active but just not resolved till now when I posted this reply.

 

In my situation what would you guys do right now, I'm curious...

[Afi4wins]

The best and safest thing to do is not to take up any other bonus promotion whilst you are still stuck with an existing uncompleted bonus. You must always complete one first before going for the next.

Some casinos do not allow a second bonus to be taken whilst one is still active, but I don't think this is common at all casinos. They can use this trickery to trap ignorant players!

[Ghostnipple]

I agree with @Afi4wins
 

Your best course of action is to do nothing and wait, if you do anything else there you may risk accidentally adding complications or delays or worse.

Online casinos are inclined to outsource all business functions as it allows them to scale quickly.

Outsourcing IT problems, to remote teams who further outsource to other teams who have different priorities, and have different procedures, who operate in different times zones, is going to cause delays.

Best if you expect it to take some time, and to wait.

[pinnit2015]

I can see the points raised by the OP - casinos have long abused their own t's and c's, knowing well players can't challenge them for fairness (despite some people claiming they have an army of lawyers, despite their max spin bet being 10c - arf, arf)

Few points:

 - affiliates shouldn't recommend casinos with dodgy t's and c's and should vet them better IMO

 - players, if they read t/c and think it's unfair shouldn't play there - that's the greatest risk mitigation

 - complaints services are hindered by the fact they can't rule on fairness, matter for the courts. But i don't really agree with complaints being refused in black and white terms for breaching a term. Eg. Olle at Bitstarz - you argue, yes i did breach max bet, but only one spin i think there's a good chance at BS they will rule for you. Which they have done from what i've seen - case by case. 

[cocopop3011]

2 hours ago, pinnit2015 said:

 - complaints services are hindered by the fact they can't rule on fairness, matter for the courts. But i don't really agree with complaints being refused in black and white terms for breaching a term. Eg. Olle at Bitstarz - you argue, yes i did breach max bet, but only one spin i think there's a good chance at BS they will rule for you. Which they have done from what i've seen - case by case

The best thing for players to do is reach out to the casino their selves. We’ve all seen cases in the forum where this has happened and the casino has ended up siding with the player regrading max bet. Not very often admitted, but it has happened. 
There are some casinos that simply won’t and will stick by the fact the max bet is on their terms. Once that player then comes to AG to open a complaint, there’s very little we can do because the casino has it in black and white. Hence the reason the complaint is refused. 
And we can’t even call that a shady term, it’s pretty standard that most experienced players at least should know about. 

[Jeanke08]

I won't be acting on anything, I raised a complaint yesterday after getting a mister Mackey-like 'Mokaay'.

I forwarded all through e-mail and Oh Lord, Oh Dear....the chat assistant didn't read the situation report well enough, investigation was and is still ongoing.

 

EDIT: Maybe this will turn out as my first interaction with ACGCS, I'm rather curious but I'm giving them some slack for now...

 

Edited March 1, 2023 by jan duchau

[Ghostnipple]

I think there is a lot of value in logging and publishing disputes leveled against online casinos, even if the complaint doesn't qualify for AG's dispute resolution procedure.

Stake.com wrote conditions that allowed them whenever they chose, to select a player in good standing and place that player in breech of TOS.
Having done so they then imposed sanctions against that account, specifically blocking withdrawals.

If a casino is doing this I want to know about it. Because it allows the casino to decide what complaints go in front of AskGamblers and which complaints do not.

On 3/1/2023 at 3:24 AM, cocopop3011 said:

Aha, a great example to use in this case actually. 

So, your friend would know the max bet rule if he had checked the terms and conditions. HOWEVER - I also agree that ALL CASINOS should have max bet protection in place to prevent this from happening. So, yep I also agree that the fact they accepted his bets sucks, but there's nothing we can do since the casino has the TOS to defend them, had your friend read them, he'd have gotten his winnings. 

So, I totally understand where you are coming from with this. We can't accept the complaint and that sucks for your friend. I totally get it  

You do players an injustice by reducing what the casinos expect of them to, "Reading" the tos.
What they are really expecting is:

the memorizing 1500 words of legal jargon in order to achieve a comprehensive understanding of how every condition in that TOS document applies, in every possible context that relates to services, procedures and protocols that the player has no experience of.

If that is'nt enough of a cognitive overload, you can throw implied terms of service in on top of that, as well as an understanding of the custom and practice of how the variety of staff choose to implement the conditions.

Not to mention you have to keep checking the conditions every 60 seconds to make sure they haven't added anything. Which is what they did in my friends case, because he did read the tos, they had added it after he registered. Which is allowed apparently because they wrote it into the tos they can update the tos at any time and its up to the player to check.
 

 

 

[cocopop3011]

1 hour ago, Ghostnipple said:

Not to mention you have to keep checking the conditions every 60 seconds to make sure they haven't added anything. Which is what they did in my friends case, because he did read the tos, they had added it after he registered. Which is allowed apparently because they wrote it into the tos they can update the tos at any time and its up to the player to check.

If the player has proof that the tos was changed AFTER he  made the bets then you may have a case here. We've had a similar case to this in the forum before. However, most if not all casinos already have the max bet rule in place, did they increase the term? Can you tell me which casino?

[cocopop3011]

1 hour ago, Ghostnipple said:

You do players an injustice by reducing what the casinos expect of them to, "Reading" the tos.

I don't make the rules I'm afraid. As a player myself, I am able to read and abide to the tos, well I have so far anyway without any issues. 

[Jeanke08]

6 hours ago, cocopop3011 said:

If the player has proof that the tos was changed AFTER he  made the bets then you may have a case here. We've had a similar case to this in the forum before. However, most if not all casinos already have the max bet rule in place, did they increase the term? Can you tell me which casino?

A habit I started doing this year...before first deposit take a prntscrn or download the T&C's at that moment.

I also have the list of restricted games printed and when they let you choose your favorites, do so first and the cross reference with your favorite slots.

Max bet, make sure before you spin that the amount isn't more than the max allowed bet and hit autospin, safest way.

[Ghostnipple]

10 hours ago, cocopop3011 said:

I don't make the rules I'm afraid. As a player myself, I am able to read and abide to the tos, well I have so far anyway without any issues. 

Agreeing to a terms of service does not make the ToS valid. The test the courts apply is determining if the ToS is reasonable, fair and made in 'good faith'.
Askgamblers don't have the authority to determine whether a contract is null and void or legally binding, so they should not attempt to do so.
There are some things Askgamblers can do, such as:

In the context of a "Violation of Terms" related complaint;
> Player's should be encouraged to make complaints. AG's guidelines currently discourage players from making ToS related complaints.
> Publish those complaints.

Allow the players to do their due diligence. Allow them to determine for themselves what is reasonable and fair. Allow them to decide for themselves if a casino is acting in 'Good Faith'. I don't see any better way in which AG can serve the needs of their player community, assuming that that is an objective Askgamblers aspire to.

 

https://www.askgamblers.com/complaint-guidelines

[cocopop3011]

1 hour ago, Ghostnipple said:

In the context of a "Violation of Terms" related complaint;
> Player's should be encouraged to make complaints. AG's guidelines currently discourage players from making ToS related complaints.
> Publish those complaints.

So we publish the complaint, the casino sees the complaint and says, sorry the player violated the terms and conditions and provides proof that the player accepted that he read and understood the TOS before registering. Case closed but how can we argue with rock solid proof?

Do you not see where I am coming from?

I am not saying I don't agree with you here, but the casino will have the player bang to rights in black and white.

[Ghostnipple]

"breaking casino conditions is one of the most often occurring issues"
https://www.askgamblers.com/submit-complaint/casino-terms-violation

The objective is not to provide a resolution to the dispute, the objective is to avoid the dispute altogether.  Providing the player with relevant information, before they deposit that allows them to avoid a dispute is a valuable service to the player and also to the legitimate operators. let the players know:

• which casinos are most/least likely to deny a payout due to ToS.
• which ToS conditions are most likely to result in a casino denying a payout.
• which conditions are most likely to lead to 'mutual misunderstanding'
  allow the player to determine
• which casinos are acting in bad faith
• which casinos are behaving unfairly
• which casinos place unreasonable expectations on the player

It would appear to me that empowering the player to make informed decisions, relating to the "most often occurring issue", as to where they should or should not deposit, is a valuable exercise. At the very least it is just as valuable an exercise as providing a dispute resolution service for lessor occurring issues.

If rogue operators are allowed to flourish in a highly competitive sector they either push out the legitimate operators who cant compete or it encourages the legitimate operators to engage in fraudulent practices in order to survive. Inform the players, let them decide, it is their money they risk and ultimately they suffer the consequences if denied relevant information

[cocopop3011]

1 hour ago, Ghostnipple said:

If rogue operators are allowed to flourish in a highly competitive sector they either push out the legitimate operators who cant compete or it encourages the legitimate operators to engage in fraudulent practices in order to survive. Inform the players, let them decide, it is their money they risk and ultimately they suffer the consequences if denied relevant information

When a player breaks a tos rule because they didn’t read them or didn’t understand them or simply forgot the rule, that’s not a rogue casino flourishing. Us not accepting that complaint isn’t allowing a rogue casino to flourish?