It's 2021 KYC needs to change

[dillfly2000]

The main part is proof of address. 

So many times I've had trouble with this. 

All phone bill and bank statements are paperless and my bank statement does not include my address on the PDF  So I have to revert back to paper and wait for the mail to arrive which takes an extra month just so I can take a picture of my statement with the address. 

My phone bill e-statement does have my address on it, but some casinos don't accept mobile phone statements for some reason. 

Also I just ran into an extra problem, I recently moved and won some money in the same period. I have to wait 2 months just for everything I need to switch to my new address. On top of that I'm renting, so I only have my mobile and bank statements for proof of address since nothing is in my name. 

My ID has my new address on it but apparently that's not good enough SMH. 

Seriously, KYC needs to get with the times. Find a better more efficient way to do this. 

[Blackjax]

I would suggest everybody should be issued a gaming ID, like a passport. Mga/curacao/uk gambling comission and other license validators  should make gamblers request players for these gambling ids and accept the required documents like passport, driving license, bank statement and keep a database. Also these documents should be issued for 18 months and then documents rechecked. This way you could use a gambling id at all casinos without having to verify yourself time and again. 

[dillfly2000]

1 hour ago, Blackjax said:

I would suggest everybody should be issued a gaming ID, like a passport. Mga/curacao/uk gambling commission and other license validators  should make gamblers request players for these gambling ids and accept the required documents like passport, driving license, bank statement and keep a database. Also these documents should be issued for 18 months and then documents rechecked. This way you could use a gambling id at all casinos without having to verify yourself time and again. 

I like this idea. Plus it takes the headache away from both the player and people validating them. 

also

I won't mention the Casino in question but I've contacted support a few times and they said there's nothing they can do to help me with this. I just have to wait.

Luckily, I am a patient person. But might have to remove my positive review.

[cocopop3011]

3 hours ago, dillfly2000 said:

The main part is proof of address. 

So many times I've had trouble with this. 

All phone bill and bank statements are paperless and my bank statement does not include my address on the PDF  So I have to revert back to paper and wait for the mail to arrive which takes an extra month just so I can take a picture of my statement with the address. 

My phone bill e-statement does have my address on it, but some casinos don't accept mobile phone statements for some reason. 

Also I just ran into an extra problem, I recently moved and won some money in the same period. I have to wait 2 months just for everything I need to switch to my new address. On top of that I'm renting, so I only have my mobile and bank statements for proof of address since nothing is in my name. 

My ID has my new address on it but apparently that's not good enough SMH. 

Seriously, KYC needs to get with the times. Find a better more efficient way to do this. 

I agree, proof of adress is becoming a big issue with pretty much every company going paperless. I don't have any utility bills with an address on and I recently struggled to verify proof of address with something that was non gambling related. 

Unfortunately though, KYC "getting with the times" is asking for a selfie of you holding your passport, how very 21st century  But I do agree, I think the whole KYC Process needs a shake up. 

[pinnit2015]

I think Sweden Bank ID login is like that?

If casino's could get with the modern era there would be no need to supply passports and the like - luckily in the UK, it's pretty easy if playing with UK based casinos as it's all done using various e-verifications; never had i had to send in cards/passports to Sky/Willy Hill/Bet 365 - it's always the maltese casinos - who, frankly, need a boot up the proverbial.

 

 

[pinnit2015]

Linking in with work, we were going some work on Covid Grants etc and the government has a system whereby you could input the application forms, the applicants details and, pulling from many sources, would run a series of cross checks to verify (similar to KYC) the person and their business; not a single paper document was needed and the money there is a helluva lot more than asking for it to pay out 50 quid. 

Depends i guess on the country the persons in and where they can get the data from; in the UK we have quite a lot of systems that can be used to verify, other places, maybe not so much; so in the casinos defence they would need to have this in place for each individual country, so possibly why they go old school. 

[pinnit2015]

As for the, we don't accept PDF's; print it off, fold it, add a dog ear and take a pic with it beside an envelope - they won't know the difference

[Blackjax]

7 hours ago, pinnit2015 said:

I think Sweden Bank ID login is like that?

If casino's could get with the modern era there would be no need to supply passports and the like - luckily in the UK, it's pretty easy if playing with UK based casinos as it's all done using various e-verifications; never had i had to send in cards/passports to Sky/Willy Hill/Bet 365 - it's always the maltese casinos - who, frankly, need a boot up the proverbial.

 

 

But that thing is limited to just one country. I dont think other countries would allow casinos to use bank info directly.  But if Mga or any other license start giving out licenses then it would be better. It would be a good way to apply gamstop as well.

[pinnit2015]

25 minutes ago, Blackjax said:

But that thing is limited to just one country. I dont think other countries would allow casinos to use bank info directly.  But if Mga or any other license start giving out licenses then it would be better. It would be a good way to apply gamstop as well.

Just using it as an example - Trustly is in itself KYC as well. 

Lets be honest though, MGA take months to respond to complaints, the UKGC won't even deal with them, so the chances of those two acting basically as a third party for KYC are pretty long

The other thing would be that, legally, the casino's are still responsible for KYC as part of the EDD: using the UKGC/MGA as essentially agents to carry this out wouldn't 'get them off the hook' if something goes wrong.

Think there's merit in having some sort of 'one token' across all sites but unfortunately it'll never happen. You can just see it now. -the UKGC taking 2 months to approve someones KYC, the casino's getting irrate cos the player can't spin, the players getting annoyed: it'd be pandemonium. 

And like i said re the UK, if done right, it's not even an issue as it's all done in the background: no passports, no expired bank card pics needed etc. 

I know some casino's have went to the GC about the idea of them being the ones responsible for SOW for example and lets say that was quite a short convo  - to be honest, i think that would be probably be a decent shout, but again, it won't happen. 

 

 

 

[Blackjax]

3 minutes ago, pinnit2015 said:

Just using it as an example - Trustly is in itself KYC as well. 

Lets be honest though, MGA take months to respond to complaints, the UKGC won't even deal with them, so the chances of those two acting basically as a third party for KYC are pretty long

The other thing would be that, legally, the casino's are still responsible for KYC as part of the EDD: using the UKGC/MGA as essentially agents to carry this out wouldn't 'get them Off the Hook' if something goes wrong.

Think there's merit in having some sort of 'one token' across all sites but unfortunately it'll never happen. You can just see it now. -the UKGC taking 2 months to approve someones KYC, the casino's getting irrate cos the player can't Spin, the players getting annoyed: it'd be pandemonium. 

And like i said re the UK, if done right, it's not even an issue as it's all done in the background: no passports, no expired bank card pics needed etc. 

I know some casino's have went to the GC about the idea of them being the ones responsible for SOW for example and lets say that was quite a short convo  - to be honest, i think that would be probably be a decent shout, but again, it won't happen. 

 

 

 

Lets add some money in this situation. 15 to 20 euros for 3 to 4 years. Then the guys at mga would be pretty swift about it. Honestly i dont mind giving 10/20 euros for getting rid of kyc. I have lost enough money in cancelling withdrawal while  i was waiting to be verified. 110 euros recently in april at bitstarz. Anybody in?

[pinnit2015]

Oddly enough, someone PM'd me re a casino asking for expired bank cards and a casino withholding a w/d because of it (As Amy Winehouse sang, no, no, no) - Malta casino, as per usual - seriously, sort it out. Really don't make it easy for themselves with such, I'll pluck this from the air, requests

[pinnit2015]

I still find it weird that Bitcoin casino's have to do KYC (well, they were brought into the AML universe): hey, anon....but send us in ur passport 

[pinnit2015]

Doesn't necessarily need to be the regulator as well - there are companies specifically set up to act as outsourced agents for KYC around the world; you pay either a flat fee per year (gets you X amount of verifications) or you 'pay as you go. 

Economies of Scale etc i think it was working out at one place at pennies in the pound per 'client'

Verification shouldn't take days: it should either be instant or hours, certainly not 72 hrs etc. 

[ValDes]

Interesting subject indeed so please let me share my two cents...

1. I'm the last one here to defend Operators when it comes to KYC problems considering A/ I had my own fair share of completely unnecessary troubles connected with KYC over the years (100% of these solved in my favor btw) and B/ had the chance to read and discuss countless amount of AGCCS cases where KYC was obviously used as a tool by Operators (including some holding UKGC license) to delay payments and/ore create unjustified obstacles in front of players, BUT, and that's a big BUT... You should join the AskGamblers Complaint Team, not even for a month but for a week only, and see yourselves the insane amount of KYC related fraud which is committed by players! Every time my colleagues decide they've seen it all, there's some new KYC related AGCCS case where we see player going way way beyond wildest imagination in inventing new methods of cheating the KYC procedure by 100% intentional fraudulent actions. Obviously, and logically of course, the Operators have no other choice but to follow through and try to use/implement some 'imagination' within their own KYC process. Some Operators thou, including reputable and well known ones,  obviously overdosed the use of 'imagination' and created a set of some ridiculous (won't use stronger word) requirements towards the verification paperwork which could be easily classified not just as unfair, but also as deeply contravening with some of the GDPR basic postulates.  Unfortunately, as @pinnit2015 correctly mentioned, it's only the UKGC which despite the many controversial actions in this respect over the years, is now at least clearly demonstrating some will to change the whole KYC process towards more fairness, speed and above all, transparency. And that must be duly praised and acclaimed. 

2/ Let's not forget that It's absolutely impossible to unify the KYC procedure towards ALL customer of the relevant Operator unless that Operator is accepting players from  certain country only.  When it comes to a simple KYC operation conducted by the relevant Fraud Team, it's one thing to verify a player from the UK and totally different to verify a player from Ukraine or Serbia for example. It's not just the historical stats of potential fraud rates and so on, but we talk about a completely incomparable rates of the relevant country's digitalization of different public records, systems, etc. 

3/ IMHO, the future of the modern gambling related KYC process won't be that much connected with the regulatory authorities but with dedicated and most probably, private companies which are specialized in conducting identification & verification processes at large scales. Let's face it, creating and maintaining your own Fraud team is an expensive task, actually very expensive and most Operators have to outsource that task to their platform provider usually. The platform provider on the other hand is certainly not that interested in performing the KYC process asap cause they will be paid anyway. Which leads to all these delays and miscommunication which we all witnessed countless amount of times. That's why I believe the future belongs to these KYC-specialized, private companies which will most probably have some license by the relevant regulatory body to conduct this type of operations on behalf the casinos licensed by that regulator and which will do the job faster, better and above all, cheaper than it costs now. 

Of course, all the above is related with the current online gambling regulatory framework, which btw is changing as we speak. Looking at what's happening in France, Spain, Italy, Germany, etc, I'm not a big optimist that the KYC process will get any better any time soon tbh.  

[pinnit2015]

Just to follow up with what Valdes has said re private companies - economies of scale as mentioned, it would probably be cheaper for org's using this, rather than having an in-house team

Skill set wise? If the private orgs have the required fraud certifications etc, no offence to casino's, but they will be be better qualified to perform this; it's their bread and butter after all - won't go into detail, or say much more other than it's quite easy to fool a casino's KYC team if ur sending in manual documents (cough, cough) - it's not so easy to fool 243 data points to run info against. 

Unfortunately, for all the good as V mentioned that the UKGC has presided over (verification before deposits, a commitment to move to E Verification) it's all gonna be pointless when folk give up gambling cos they don't wanna manually spin on Novomatics for hours on end. 

Roll on October