Video game loot boxes - Gambling or not?

[catapultaudio]

Hope this hasn't been discussed to death already, I was surprised to see no results when searching, as this topic was seriously hot a couple of years ago... 

So, I have a friend who quit gambling a while back as they acknowledged it had become something of an unhealthy habit for them ... a position I supported, as a friend, though I'll be honest I was real disappointed to see the end of our regular poker games and Friday nights sat in playing online slots together

Fast forward a while, and it turns out this same friend has ended up spending just as much, if not far more, on loot boxes and in-game rewards on Xbox ... the UK Gambling Commission have decided that these services do not constitute gambling, primarily based on the fact you cannot convert your "winnings" back into real money .... Belgium on the other hand disagreed, and decided that paying real money for an opportunity of a randomised prize, does infact, constitute gambling.

For me, seeing a friend with a known gambling problem become addicted to these products is enough to convince me that it is certainly very similar, especially in terms of the psychological effect on players. I actually believe you could argue it is far worse, after all there is no chance of coming out"on top" even for a moment when all you are buying is virtual football stickers in FIFA, or buying 1,000 random boxes praying you might receive the gun, costume or other piece of digital bullsh*t you actually want from that next box.

I don't play modern games myself, or at least not 95%+ of them ... I can't resist a bit of GTA and am looking forward to Cyberpunk but this whole DLC/ Season Pass/ Loot Boxes ~ Constant nickel & diming of players is a major reason why I just absolutely hate it. 

I'd be fascinated to hear what people hear think, and if you feel the industry has cleaned up its act much since this was a major scandal 18-24 months ago... whilst I agree the most egregious cases of this ***** were swiftly put to bed (eg. Star Wars Battlefront 2), the Fifa/Madden Ultimate Team ***** is still alive and well and generating as many billions as ever... I've just bought my younger sister a PS5 this morning and I do worry about her being constantly exposed to this *****. That said, she works for Ubisoft herself so I'm sure there will be some who will say she deserves all she gets

[cocopop3011]

I actually think it is an issue and there should be guidelines and restrictions in place.  My children are young and at a young age they are already asking me to buy in-app purchases that will allow them coins, special oufits etc. 

For example - my daughter was playing a game and she really wanted a costume she just could not win. £1.99. I thought oh okay I'll buy it. Then my little boy of course wanted the same outfit on his, £1.99. 

Yesterday my daugher asked me if I will get Minecraft its £6.99 for the app and then it has in-app purchases. I said no. They are under the age of 7! And already asking for in-app purchases. If I continue to buy them they will grow up thinking that is accpetable so just spend money on virtual items that aren't even real. 

I believe that these purchases you can buy whether they be apps, xbox rewards, anything, are getting seriously out of hand and I do think that over the years this has to start being regulated in some kind of way because like you said this can be a serius addiction, if not worse than gambling because there is absolutely no finanial gain! 

[catapultaudio]

13 minutes ago, cocopop3011 said:

I actually think it is an issue and there should be guidelines and restrictions in place.  My children are young and at a young age they are already asking me to buy in-app purchases that will allow them coins, special oufits etc. 

For example - my daughter was playing a game and she really wanted a costume she just could not win. £1.99. I thought oh okay I'll buy it. Then my little boy of course wanted the same outfit on his, £1.99. 

Yesterday my daugher asked me if I will get Minecraft its £6.99 for the app and then it has in-app purchases. I said no. They are under the age of 7! And already asking for in-app purchases. If I continue to buy them they will grow up thinking that is accpetable so just spend money on virtual items that aren't even real. 

I believe that these purchases you can buy whether they be apps, xbox rewards, anything, are getting seriously out of hand and I do think that over the years this has to start being regulated in some kind of way because like you said this can be a serius addiction, if not worse than gambling because there is absolutely no finanial gain! 

I knew you'd have a sensible opinion on this ! Minecraft is a fantastic game, and certainly cheaper than buying Lego - but I certainly wouldn't want to be spending money on endless extra in-app purchases in the same way I'd be happy to buy extra lego sets.

The costumes and "aesthetics" are often marketed as being somehow harmless, and I'd actually argue the complete opposite is true - the thinking is that because these are only cosmetic items as opposed to "pay-to-win" mechanics that makes them completely optional and therefore OK, but in the case of games like Fortnite there are reported instances of kids being bullied because they only have the basic free costumes or dance moves etc, which of course leads to those kids pressuring their parents to buy them these entirely pointless items ... and new ones are being pushed out on a weekly or even daily basis, which is entirely unnecessary and a blatant cash grab IMO. Whereas buying new weapons or team members or whatever has a measurable effect on your experience of the game, these cosmetic items don't do anything useful at all, so how is that BETTER?

I remember when I was a kid my mum allowed us to play a couple of those "0891" (premium phone line) competitions on one occasion, basically to demonstrate to us what a rip off they were and how you'd never get anything out of playing them... I remember her saying a few years later when I was old enough to understand it properly, how she'd been praying we wouldn't actually end up winning anything out of it  This example seems laughably tame compared to the environment we have today though, where almost everything is monetised and in a much more predatory way, too.

[Afi4wins]

Just the other day, I downloaded an online game (free software) and started playing it. A few minutes later, I was required to buy 'gems' in order to proceed further into the game. Non-purchase puts the game into hang mode, so I simply quit the game and completely uninstalled it. Free games are needing players to buy things with real money just to continue on playing??? Absolutely rubbish!!! 

These types of games should be BANNED!!! 

[ValDes]

1 hour ago, Afi4wins said:

Just the other day, I downloaded an online game (free software) and started playing it. A few minutes later, I was required to buy 'gems' in order to proceed further into the game. Non-purchase puts the game into hang mode, so I simply quit the game and completely uninstalled it. Free games are needing players to buy things with real money just to continue on playing??? Absolutely rubbish!!! 

These types of games should be BANNED!!! 

... which means we shall face ban of 75% of current game world... 

[Blackjax]

1 hour ago, Afi4wins said:

Just the other day, I downloaded an online game (free software) and started playing it. A few minutes later, I was required to buy 'gems' in order to proceed further into the game. Non-purchase puts the game into hang mode, so I simply quit the game and completely uninstalled it. Free games are needing players to buy things with real money just to continue on playing??? Absolutely rubbish!!! 

These types of games should be BANNED!!! 

Have you tried soccer stars by miniclip. Its a fun game.

[Afi4wins]

1 hour ago, ValDes said:

... which means we shall face ban of 75% of current game world... 

If a game requires real money to play it (for purchases), then real money must be paid for selling it, then it becomes fair. I have heard that some games do allow players to sell what they have for real money gains, so that is okay, but when a strategy game requires real money just to proceed into the game, then that's pure ROBBERY!

[Afi4wins]

1 hour ago, Blackjax said:

Have you tried soccer stars by miniclip. Its a fun game.

If it's a soccer game, too bad, I'm not into soccer games, although I have played such games before on Play Station and desktop. 

[Blackjax]

Its a soccer board game. U get turns to hit the ball. Application of geometry. Watch soccer stars on youtube u might like it.

[Afi4wins]

4 minutes ago, Blackjax said:

Its a soccer board game. U get turns to hit the ball. Application of geometry. Watch soccer stars on youtube u might like it.

Hmmm...thanks...but no thanks mate. 

[catapultaudio]

On 11/19/2020 at 3:21 PM, Afi4wins said:

If a game requires real money to play it (for purchases), then real money must be paid for selling it, then it becomes fair. I have heard that some games do allow players to sell what they have for real money gains, so that is okay, but when a strategy game requires real money just to proceed into the game, then that's pure ROBBERY!

Ahhhh, but the UKGC specifically stipulates that if in game items can be converted back into real world funds then it definitely IS gambling and needs to be taxed and regulated as such. They'll never allow that, for a start it will stop them praying on children and their god-like nag power

[Afi4wins]

1 hour ago, catapultaudio said:

Ahhhh, but the UKGC specifically stipulates that if in game items can be converted back into real world funds then it definitely IS gambling and needs to be taxed and regulated as such. They'll never allow that, for a start it will stop them praying on children and their god-like nag power

And that's exactly why I would blatantly refuse to 'buy' anything just to play the game! Utter rubbish!

So who is governing all those daylight robberies then? The Bobbies...or the Syndicates? (For those not knowing, a Bobby refers to the London Metropolitan Police back in the old days, don't know about now though) 

[catapultaudio]

Something I'd be keen to know is, who has managed to get the furthest on Candy Crush without spending a single penny? I'm up to around level 1,500, wondering if that could be a record? :)

[cocopop3011]

1 hour ago, catapultaudio said:

Something I'd be keen to know is, who has managed to get the furthest on Candy Crush without spending a single penny? I'm up to around level 1,500, wondering if that could be a record?

Ooooohh..interesting! I stopped playing it but dip in and out but I haven't got anywhere near that level! I've never spent a penny on it though. But it's a very addictive game!

[Fiekie247]

I am on level 1000 on Candy Crush, but have not played in almost 2 years, used to be addicted, they made it very easy these days with all the extras.

At the actual topic - My Son always want to get some in app purchased, like car upgrades on the car games, once he asked me to sign into my paypal on the game app, I was like ***** no and banned him from playing any games on my phone or PC, I bought a PS and Jam with him now, so he is okay with the replacement.

[Afi4wins]

39 minutes ago, Fiekie247 said:

I am on level 1000 on Candy Crush, but have not played in almost 2 years, used to be addicted, they made it very easy these days with all the extras.

At the actual topic - My Son always want to get some in app purchased, like car upgrades on the car games, once he asked me to sign into my paypal on the game app, I was like ***** no and banned him from playing any games on my phone or PC, I bought a PS and Jam with him now, so he is okay with the replacement.

That's the way to go about it mate...NEVER give in to those daylight robbers!!! 

[catapultaudio]

On 12/1/2020 at 10:21 PM, cocopop3011 said:

Ooooohh..interesting! I stopped playing it but dip in and out but I haven't got anywhere near that level! I've never spent a penny on it though. But it's a very addictive game!

There's definitely a few levels that had me totally infuriated, the way I eventually got past them was not playing for a whole month as you now get an extra move for every day you don't play... the extra 30 moves made it JUST about possible to clear the level. But as AFI says a little further down, the number of "extras" they throw at you nowadays means any real challenge is gone and its just a sneaky way of milking money from people now. I won't do it,... I think they add new levels daily so I doubt I'll ever reach the end, but if there is one, I'm getting there without giving them a penny

[Afi4wins]

4 hours ago, catapultaudio said:

There's definitely a few levels that had me totally infuriated, the way I eventually got past them was not playing for a whole month as you now get an extra move for every day you don't play... the extra 30 moves made it JUST about possible to clear the level. But as AFI says a little further down, the number of "extras" they throw at you nowadays means any real challenge is gone and its just a sneaky way of milking money from people now. I won't do it,... I think they add new levels daily so I doubt I'll ever reach the end, but if there is one, I'm getting there without giving them a penny

Waaaay to go mate!