Poker Stars Withdrawal Policy

[GazWhit]

Good afternoon,

I am in need of some guidance and advice as I keep getting ignored by the customer services despite numerous emails, Twitter messages and live chat (which is now unavailable).

Last week I was lucky enough to win £1000 on Poker Stars Roulette. I tried to withdraw the money but was only given the option of withdrawing 0.72p. I know my quite addictive personality so I deleted the app and switched off my phone. 
 

The next morning I reloaded the app and went on the Live Chat option and pleaded with them to remove the money from my account. I told them why, that if the money was in the account it is just too tempting for me, to which I was told this wasn’t an option. No other options provided. I have since found out that they could have put a block on my account and/or restricted my play for the concerns that I raised with them.

Low and behold, being the idiot that I am, one more press turned into another press and another and I ended up losing all of my profits, the money I had deposited and them out of anger and frustration about another £400 chasing what I had lost.

I am just so mad at the whole situation. You might say it was my fault for continuing to play but I knew, I know myself and I know what I am like and I tried and tried to get this money out of my account with no help or guidance from the company.

I have had live chats and wrote about 8 emails to which I just keep receiving generic emails back with no substance. The lack of concern for customers in an industry which could have serious impacts on people’s lives and mental health is astounding.

I have also contacted the Gaming Commission and been on there website who say that companies should allow customers to withdraw their money at any time. 

I have reviewed my previous deposits and withdrawals and I have made a number of deposits and withdrawals on the same day so, despite being told otherwise, this 48 hour rule hasn’t always been in place.

I am extremely mad and frustrated about this whole situation. Yes, I shouldn’t have carried on playing, but after knowing myself and really trying to get this money out of the account, I feel Poker Stars have acted with no social responsibility and lacked ethics in their actions. 
 

Apologies for the length, I’m sure you can feel my frustration.

Any guidance or advice would be great.

[ValDes]

Hey there and welcome to AskGamblers Forum. 

Quick question if you don't mind.... Hoe come you never used ANY of the RG tools offered by the casino account interface and which would easily allow you to limit/restrict/block your playing immediately? 

Thanks. 

[pinnit2015]

Why could you only withdraw 72 odd p? What's the 48hr period?  You're correct in that you should be able to instigate a withdrawal at any point (bar things like bonus wagering etc) and once you do, it's non reversible (though i see some casinos bat this back into a players playable funds on occasions which sometimes looks a tad suspect)

I suppose they could have directed you to the TAB function but tbh you can find that within 3 seconds yourself if you look, you don't need them to action that. 

Sorry, but don't really have much advice/guidance (the UKGC will send you back a boilerplate response) other than to sort out any issues with gambling - even if you had got it out, by what you've said, it would just have went elsewhere and the cycle, as they do, continue. 

If they were being ultra cautious, as some do, they probably would have blocked you there and then with any 'pleads' but they have the tools available which is what they would argue, even if CS wasn't great (I don't like PS at all)

If you went to their RG page and there were no tools or they were broken, and coupled with the fact the money was still there, you could have a stronger case - even then, i'd be surprised to see a refund unless by the casino's own goodwill gesture. Pretty sure RG is still within the UKGC's remit and no ADR really likes, or can? (not sure), ruling on such. 

Sometimes i think we've all grown a bit naive to the purpose of a casino - they exist, primarily, to take your money.  Not entertainment, money. Yes, every year they'll fly their Responsible Gambling flag and send out their Covid emails,  but they don't really mean it - it's all Peacocking. No different to a player saying they're loyal to a casino etc - no we're not, we follow the money just like them. 

 

[GazWhit]

1 hour ago, ValDes said:

Hey there and welcome to AskGamblers Forum. 

Quick question if you don't mind.... Hoe come you never used ANY of the RG tools offered by the casino account interface and which would easily allow you to limit/restrict/block your playing immediately? 

Thanks. 

Hello,

Thanks for your response.

I wasn’t aware of the RG tools that were available to me. The only option I knew about was restricting your daily deposit limit, which wasn’t effective to me as the money was already in the account.

During my chat conversation there was no mention of such tools, I have since found out I could have blocked myself altogether or even just block myself from playing roulette which would have been perfect as I do like to play small stakes games of Poker on the site. Or I used to.

The amount of contradiction I am receiving is unbelievable to be honest. This 48 hour rule has never been the case before as I have deposited and withdrawn in the same day.  And why would just 78p be available to withdraw? It’s still in my account and not abiding by the “48 hour rule” they state to have ALWAYS had in place. 

[GazWhit]

1 hour ago, pinnit2015 said:

Why could you only withdraw 72 odd p? What's the 48hr period?  You're correct in that you should be able to instigate a withdrawal at any point (bar things like bonus wagering etc) and once you do, it's non reversible (though i see some casinos bat this back into a players playable funds on occasions which sometimes looks a tad suspect)

I suppose they could have directed you to the TAB function but tbh you can find that within 3 seconds yourself if you look, you don't need them to action that. 

Sorry, but don't really have much advice/guidance (the UKGC will send you back a boilerplate response) other than to sort out any issues with gambling - even if you had got it out, by what you've said, it would just have went elsewhere and the cycle, as they do, continue. 

If they were being ultra cautious, as some do, they probably would have blocked you there and then with any 'pleads' but they have the tools available which is what they would argue, even if CS wasn't great (I don't like PS at all)

If you went to their RG page and there were no tools or they were broken, and coupled with the fact the money was still there, you could have a stronger case - even then, i'd be surprised to see a refund unless by the casino's own goodwill gesture. Pretty sure RG is still within the UKGC's remit and no ADR really likes, or can? (not sure), ruling on such. 

Sometimes i think we've all grown a bit naive to the purpose of a casino - they exist, primarily, to take your money.  Not entertainment, money. Yes, every year they'll fly their Responsible Gambling flag and send out their Covid emails,  but they don't really mean it - it's all Peacocking. No different to a player saying they're loyal to a casino etc - no we're not, we follow the money just like them. 

 

I have attached a copy of my original chat! 
 

As you can see, I did plea with them more than once.

No mention of any RG tools that could have helped the concerns that I raised and I had no prior knowledge of them until doing some investigation on this. 

[pinnit2015]

48 hours until you can request a withdrawal after a deposit and these are regulatory requirements?

That's Bulls@@t - never heard of that in my life. 

Hmmm...i'll have to have a peek - their terms, if that's right, are anti UKGC, or anywhere, regulations - whether it's in their terms or not. 

[pinnit2015]

Only bit i could find - never had this before

Additionally, a 48-hour delay from your last deposit may be imposed on withdrawals, depending on the deposit method used. This feature is designed to protect our players against collusion and fraud. You will be able to submit your withdrawal request once the 48 hours have elapsed.

Bit on the vague side - Neteller? - cos that's where most frauds come from i believe. 

Looks like they also do it if you try and w/d back to a different method than the depo. 

Even so, you should be allowed to submit it and not be able to reverse it. Akin to having a 48 hr pending period basically as i think they pay relatively quickly. 

Plus, it's so vaguely worded it doesn't actually say you can't request the w/d - you could equally interpret as not processing any w/d until 48hrs.

Truth be told, i think it's a ridiculous policy - and probably against their licence as the OP has said. 

If they think that certain depo methods require this then, er, stop offering that deposit method. 

If this was a Cyprus licence etc some folk would be screaming dodgy and it's hard to disagree tbh. 

[GazWhit]

2 hours ago, pinnit2015 said:

Only bit i could find - never had this before

Additionally, a 48-hour delay from your last deposit may be imposed on withdrawals, depending on the deposit method used. This feature is designed to protect our players against collusion and fraud. You will be able to submit your withdrawal request once the 48 hours have elapsed.

Bit on the vague side - Neteller? - cos that's where most frauds come from i believe. 

Looks like they also do it if you try and w/d back to a different method than the depo. 

Even so, you should be allowed to submit it and not be able to reverse it. Akin to having a 48 hr pending period basically as i think they pay relatively quickly. 

Plus, it's so vaguely worded it doesn't actually say you can't request the w/d - you could equally interpret as not processing any w/d until 48hrs.

Truth be told, i think it's a ridiculous policy - and probably against their licence as the OP has said. 

If they think that certain depo methods require this then, er, stop offering that deposit method. 

If this was a Cyprus licence etc some folk would be screaming dodgy and it's hard to disagree tbh. 

Thanks a lot.

It is nice to hear some advice.

I have been virtually ignored now for 10 days. Keep saying that my case is with the relevant department and I am a priority. I’d hate to not be a priority. 
As you can see from the chat, I tried to even have it out of my account. I wouldn’t have cared if it took a week to get to me, I just wanted it out of my account.

I was withdrawing to my account, the one that it came from, I am fully verified and they have had all my documentation so no signs of fraud whatsoever either.

I have also checked my deposit and withdrawal history and I have deposited and withdrawn in the same day or day after on numerous occasions.

It is blowing my mind.

Thanks again! 

 

[pinnit2015]

1 hour ago, GazWhit said:

Thanks a lot.

It is nice to hear some advice.

I have been virtually ignored now for 10 days. Keep saying that my case is with the relevant department and I am a priority. I’d hate to not be a priority. 
As you can see from the chat, I tried to even have it out of my account. I wouldn’t have cared if it took a week to get to me, I just wanted it out of my account.

I was withdrawing to my account, the one that it came from, I am fully verified and they have had all my documentation so no signs of fraud whatsoever either.

I have also checked my deposit and withdrawal history and I have deposited and withdrawn in the same day or day after on numerous occasions.

It is blowing my mind.

Thanks again! 

 

If you check the UKGC's site and the the judgements where they comment on what a casino did wrong - if the above made it to their radar I'm sure you'd see a commentary on the practice: it's absurd. The problem here is that the instances like the above are the big headliners whereby they're actively investigating a casino - problem here is that, as an individual, even though you're raising an issue with them, they tend to brush it off with a general 'not an ombudsman' comment - unfortunately, i think that's what you'll get.

They are even handed down guidance like the following:

16. Players are entitled to withdraw money from their deposit balance, including their winnings, at any time.  

• Operators must allow players to withdraw funds from their deposit balance. There must be no term that restricts this.

AT ANY TIME

NO TERMS THAT RESTRICT THIS

Again, and tbh i get sick of saying this, their own terms, just because you agree to them may mean very little.

PS have imposed a vague term to restrict withdrawals. IMO that breaches the above.

Now, if they locked the a/c balance and basically had a pending period but allowed a submission of a withdrawal: that's different as there's no guidance around 'you must process a withdrawal in 24hrs etc'

If what you say is true and it's back to the same method etc, argument that not even complying with their own terms - their term about 'may', 'depending upon withdrawal method' is so vague as to be basically worthless. 

The above is separate to the discussion re using the tools etc - which, obviously in hindsight, you probably should have used. But, as my old boss used to say, 'no point in bayonetting the wounded' 

[GazWhit]

15 hours ago, pinnit2015 said:

If you check the UKGC's site and the the judgements where they comment on what a casino did wrong - if the above made it to their radar I'm sure you'd see a commentary on the practice: it's absurd. The problem here is that the instances like the above are the big headliners whereby they're actively investigating a casino - problem here is that, as an individual, even though you're raising an issue with them, they tend to brush it off with a general 'not an ombudsman' comment - unfortunately, i think that's what you'll get.

They are even handed down guidance like the following:

16. Players are entitled to withdraw money from their deposit balance, including their winnings, at any time.  

• Operators must allow players to withdraw funds from their deposit balance. There must be no term that restricts this.

AT ANY TIME

NO TERMS THAT RESTRICT THIS

Again, and tbh i get sick of saying this, their own terms, just because you agree to them may mean very little.

PS have imposed a vague term to restrict withdrawals. IMO that breaches the above.

Now, if they locked the a/c balance and basically had a pending period but allowed a submission of a withdrawal: that's different as there's no guidance around 'you must process a withdrawal in 24hrs etc'

If what you say is true and it's back to the same method etc, argument that not even complying with their own terms - their term about 'may', 'depending upon withdrawal method' is so vague as to be basically worthless. 

The above is separate to the discussion re using the tools etc - which, obviously in hindsight, you probably should have used. But, as my old boss used to say, 'no point in bayonetting the wounded' 

So after hounding and doing further investigation and being ignored on all social platforms, I found an email for The Stars Group:

This was their response:

Hello Gary,

First of all, please kindly accept our apologies for the delay in replying to you. This is due to the high volume of player contacts we are currently dealing with, which has affected our response time.

We are sorry to hear that you had unpleasant experience with us and was not able to withdraw your winnings due to the 48 hours withdrawal policy. We’d like to draw your attention to that policy which is listed on our website here:

https://www.pokerstars.uk/poker/real-money/cashouts/

Specifically:

“Additionally, a 48-hour delay from your last deposit may be imposed on withdrawals, depending on the deposit method used. This feature is designed to protect our players against collusion and fraud. You will be able to submit your withdrawal request once the 48 hours have elapsed.”

As stated above, the mentioned policy applies only in some cases, depending on the deposit method used, which is why it hasn’t affected you previously, however we can confirm it has been in place for some time.

We’d also like to inform you that we do provide our players with a time-out and cooling off feature, which allows our players to restrict their accounts from play if they feel they need a break for any reason. Additionally, we only offer the ability to apply limits to different games, or deposits, should you wish to moderate your play.

You can read about that and our other Responsible Gaming features here:
www.pokerstars.uk/about/responsible-gaming/

As you had indicated to us your activity with us is having a negative impact in your life, a decision has been reached to close your account to prevent any further harm coming to yourself.

If you are interested, we would like to suggest three excellent organizations that can offer support and counseling services for those who feel gambling is having a negative impact on their lives.

1. Gamblers Anonymous: www.gamblersanonymous.org/

2. GamCare: www.gamcare.org.uk/
a. Live Chat available 24/7
b. Freephone available 24/7: 0808 8020 133

3. GamblingTherapy: www.gamblingtherapy.org

You may also want to consider extending your exclusion to other remote gambling operators by registering with GAMSTOP.

GAMSTOP is an online self-exclusion service enabling players to voluntarily exclude themselves from all British-licensed gambling operators. For more information, visit their website:
www.gamstop.co.uk

We wish you all the best for the future.

Regards,

 

So typical and showing total disregard for the actual circumstances.

Really mad right now!

[GazWhit]

15 hours ago, pinnit2015 said:

If you check the UKGC's site and the the judgements where they comment on what a casino did wrong - if the above made it to their radar I'm sure you'd see a commentary on the practice: it's absurd. The problem here is that the instances like the above are the big headliners whereby they're actively investigating a casino - problem here is that, as an individual, even though you're raising an issue with them, they tend to brush it off with a general 'not an ombudsman' comment - unfortunately, i think that's what you'll get.

They are even handed down guidance like the following:

16. Players are entitled to withdraw money from their deposit balance, including their winnings, at any time.  

• Operators must allow players to withdraw funds from their deposit balance. There must be no term that restricts this.

AT ANY TIME

NO TERMS THAT RESTRICT THIS

Again, and tbh i get sick of saying this, their own terms, just because you agree to them may mean very little.

PS have imposed a vague term to restrict withdrawals. IMO that breaches the above.

Now, if they locked the a/c balance and basically had a pending period but allowed a submission of a withdrawal: that's different as there's no guidance around 'you must process a withdrawal in 24hrs etc'

If what you say is true and it's back to the same method etc, argument that not even complying with their own terms - their term about 'may', 'depending upon withdrawal method' is so vague as to be basically worthless. 

The above is separate to the discussion re using the tools etc - which, obviously in hindsight, you probably should have used. But, as my old boss used to say, 'no point in bayonetting the wounded' 

So after hounding and doing further investigation and being ignored on all social platforms, I found an email for The Stars Group:

This was their response:

Hello Gary,

First of all, please kindly accept our apologies for the delay in replying to you. This is due to the high volume of player contacts we are currently dealing with, which has affected our response time.

We are sorry to hear that you had unpleasant experience with us and was not able to withdraw your winnings due to the 48 hours withdrawal policy. We’d like to draw your attention to that policy which is listed on our website here:

https://www.pokerstars.uk/poker/real-money/cashouts/

Specifically:

“Additionally, a 48-hour delay from your last deposit may be imposed on withdrawals, depending on the deposit method used. This feature is designed to protect our players against collusion and fraud. You will be able to submit your withdrawal request once the 48 hours have elapsed.”

As stated above, the mentioned policy applies only in some cases, depending on the deposit method used, which is why it hasn’t affected you previously, however we can confirm it has been in place for some time.

We’d also like to inform you that we do provide our players with a time-out and cooling off feature, which allows our players to restrict their accounts from play if they feel they need a break for any reason. Additionally, we only offer the ability to apply limits to different games, or deposits, should you wish to moderate your play.

You can read about that and our other Responsible Gaming features here:
www.pokerstars.uk/about/responsible-gaming/

As you had indicated to us your activity with us is having a negative impact in your life, a decision has been reached to close your account to prevent any further harm coming to yourself.

If you are interested, we would like to suggest three excellent organizations that can offer support and counseling services for those who feel gambling is having a negative impact on their lives.

1. Gamblers Anonymous: www.gamblersanonymous.org/

2. GamCare: www.gamcare.org.uk/
a. Live Chat available 24/7
b. Freephone available 24/7: 0808 8020 133

3. GamblingTherapy: www.gamblingtherapy.org

You may also want to consider extending your exclusion to other remote gambling operators by registering with GAMSTOP.

GAMSTOP is an online self-exclusion service enabling players to voluntarily exclude themselves from all British-licensed gambling operators. For more information, visit their website:
www.gamstop.co.uk

We wish you all the best for the future.

Regards,

 

So typical and showing total disregard for the actual circumstances.

Really mad right now!

[pinnit2015]

Night and day in the Stars Group as well as it has Sky Vegas in it - IMO the most hassle free casino there is.

I'd a feeling they'd come back with something like that - still doesn't address that ridiculous 48 hr policy. 

[ValDes]

The 48-hours 'pending period' policy is half of the issue here IMHO... The other half is why the OP never used any of the RG tools as mentioned in the Operator's email which are really easy to find and use and which could easily help setting any problem gambling into an immediate control without the necessity of contacting anyone not sending any emails.  

[pinnit2015]

Not as bad as 32 Red's policy a year or so ago - believe that if you contacted them to SE they told you they'd get to you, via email to which you then needed to complete a form and send in to be actioned.

If the tools are there and working, that should be the height of it - the operator has effectively discharged their duty but unfortunately they're now asked to identify patterns (or have a PHD in psychoanalysis) - hence why we've seen the account above blocked. A lot of casinos would have done that in the first instance, being risk averse. 

The minute you start mentioning certain words the Bat Signal goes on in their RG departments. 

All a bit smoke and mirrors anyway - folk who genuinely have an addiction: the RG tools etc mean very little. They'll just click from site to site. Even if their withdrawals are paid immediately it just gets recycled into the same or different site. IMO the tools are more a check on yourself before you get to the addiction stage because once you arrive there, all the RG tools, reminders are pretty pointless. 

 

 

[ValDes]

50 minutes ago, pinnit2015 said:

...

All a bit smoke and mirrors anyway - folk who genuinely have an addiction: the RG tools etc mean very little. They'll just click from site to site. Even if their withdrawals are paid immediately it just gets recycled into the same or different site. IMO the tools are more a check on yourself before you get to the addiction stage because once you arrive there, all the RG tools, reminders are pretty pointless. 

....And there's another reading of this matter and which I have already had the chance to explain in another SE related forum topic referring to how UK punters are massively abusing UKGC reqs referring to SE specifically and desperately trying to put themselves into a win-win scenario...  

IMHO, that has already became a real problem which UKGC is slowly but surely starting to open its eyes for. 

[pinnit2015]

25 minutes ago, ValDes said:

....And there's another reading of this matter and which I have already had the chance to explain in another SE related forum topic referring to how UK punters are massively abusing UKGC reqs referring to SE specifically and desperately trying to put themselves into a win-win scenario...  

IMHO, that has already became a real problem which UKGC is slowly but surely starting to open its eyes for. 

They're maybe going to reap what they sow (pun intended) if they create a proposed Ombudsman role that was mooted in the last report - if it's anything like the Financial Ombudsman here in the UK you're going to see, remit pending, a swarth of RG complaints directly to it - akin to the whole PPI/Pay Day Loans. 

Only going to exacerbate the move towards credit checks before gambling - not just one offs but regular ones. 

As a casino, what other option do you have if you're being asked to ensure each punter can afford a punt? Leave. It's madness. But it's where it's heading so no point try to pretend otherwise. 

[GazWhit]

4 hours ago, ValDes said:

The 48-hours 'pending period' policy is half of the issue here IMHO... The other half is why the OP never used any of the RG tools as mentioned in the Operator's email which are really easy to find and use and which could easily help setting any problem gambling into an immediate control without the necessity of contacting anyone not sending any emails.  

As I have already explained. I wasn’t aware of the RG tools available until after the event of me falling into the trap and spending it. The only RG tool I was aware of was a deposit limit. As you can seen from the original chat posted above, I voiced my concerns and not one mention of RG tools were mentioned. I would have gladly used them.