Bitstarz Won't Verify Docs/Account Prior to Deposit

[pokiewins]

See Bitstarz chat below - Is this normal? I have always verified my account prior to depositing with every other casino yet Bitstarz won't do it? Also why is there a fee for Visa and Mastercard deposits? I've played at literally hundreds and have never copped that. I know the rep is active on here so would like to get his insight. 

Hi can u verify my documents prior to deposit?

Read

Jarvis 05:15

Hang on, let me put you in contact with a real support hero!

You have been transferred to: Andrew.

Andrew 05:16

we only verify them after we ask for them after a withdrawal unfortunately

[ValDes]

Hello there and welcome to AskGamblers Forum. 

Hmm, any chance to provide some really detailed information about the issue? What you've posted so far doesn't say much tbh.. 

Thanks. 

[cocopop3011]

On 3/13/2020 at 6:41 PM, pokiewins said:

See Bitstarz chat below - Is this normal? I have always verified my account prior to depositing with every other casino yet Bitstarz won't do it? Also why is there a fee for Visa and Mastercard deposits? I've played at literally hundreds and have never copped that. I know the rep is active on here so would like to get his insight. 

Hi can u verify my documents prior to deposit?

Read

Jarvis 05:15

Hang on, Let me put you in contact with a real support hero!

You have been transferred to: Andrew.

Andrew 05:16

we only verify them after we ask for them after a withdrawal unfortunately

Hi and welcome to the forum! 

This has already been brought up in the forum before and we were adivsed by the rep that verification isn't done prior to depositing., I'm not sure which topic it was in now to find exactly what was said but I can tag the rep for you @OlleBitStarz.

All I can say is that providing you have the correct documents ready, you won't have any issues wth verfication.

[Fiekie247]

On 3/13/2020 at 8:41 PM, pokiewins said:

See Bitstarz chat below - Is this normal? I have always verified my account prior to depositing with every other casino yet Bitstarz won't do it? Also why is there a fee for Visa and Mastercard deposits? I've played at literally hundreds and have never copped that. I know the rep is active on here so would like to get his insight. 

Hi can u verify my documents prior to deposit?

Read

Jarvis 05:15

Hang on, Let me put you in contact with a real support hero!

You have been transferred to: Andrew.

Andrew 05:16

we only verify them after we ask for them after a withdrawal unfortunately

Hi @pokiewins and welcome to the forum.

Even if they do not verify prior to deposit, I would just suggest you upload your documents under the documents section and continue to play, once you request a withdrawal , even with Verification I am sure you will get your money in under 30 minutes till for your first withdrawal.

So don't worry you are in safe hands as verification with Bitstarz takes around 5 - 10 minutes and withdrawals 5 minutes on average but sometimes up to 10 minutes.

Who knows they might not even verify your account on your first withdrawal, as you might need to reach certain threshold of withdrawals.

[OlleBitStarz]

Hi guys : )

@pokiewins, thanks so much for choosing BitStarz first of all. I know there are a lot of casinos out there so I appreciate you
giving us a shot. 

Now, I can't speak for other casinos out there as everyone have their own way of doing certain things. However, we have as a policy
to only verify when you've requested a withdrawal. I think both us a casino and you as a player have reasons and valid arguments
as to why pre-verification or post-verification is the best way to go. 

For you as a player, I understand that you wish to get the verification out of the way ASAP so you don't have to hassle with documents
or wait for a casino to look through all the documents. With that said, our verification process is generally very fast, and once verified
you can enjoy very speedy withdrawals as we have an average of 10 minute processing time and we don't cap withdrawals at any amount.

If you despite this would be worried that you'd gamble away your winnings pending verification I recommend putting a spending limit on your
account until the verification has been done. 

As for the deposit fees we're looking into removing them actually, and we're currently in the process to see if that's a possibility. As it stands
today, the percentage you pay on deposit as fee doesn't cover what we as a casino have to pay to the payments merchants. So we're basically
splitting the cost. With that said I am aware of some casinos having fees on deposits and some do not, but we try to make that up by giving
more bonuses and other gambling related perks once you play with us

Olle

 

[Fiekie247]

1 hour ago, OlleBitStarz said:

Hi guys : )

@pokiewins, thanks so much for choosing BitStarz first of all. I know there are a lot of casinos out there so I appreciate you
giving us a shot. 

Now, I can't speak for other casinos out there as everyone have their own way of doing certain things. However, we have as a policy
to only verify when you've requested a withdrawal. I think both us a casino and you as a player have reasons and valid arguments
as to why pre-verification or post-verification is the best way to go. 

For you as a player, I understand that you wish to get the verification out of the way ASAP so you don't have to hassle with documents
or wait for a casino to look through all the documents. With that said, our verification process is generally very fast, and once verified
you can enjoy very speedy withdrawals as we have an average of 10 minute processing time and we don't cap withdrawals at any amount.

If you despite this would be worried that you'd gamble away your winnings pending verification I recommend putting a spending limit on your
account until the verification has been done. 

As for the deposit fees we're looking into removing them actually, and we're currently in the process to see if that's a possibility. As it stands
today, the percentage you pay on deposit as fee doesn't cover what we as a casino have to pay to the payments merchants. So we're basically
splitting the cost. With that said I am aware of some casinos having fees on deposits and some do not, but we try to make that up by giving
more bonuses and other gambling related perks once you play with us

Olle

 

Hi Olle

In regards to the above in red, I know with BTC you payout the full amount.

What happens if I win 50K and using Neteller, and Skrill, does that get send in 1 go or will it be split given the limits from the 3rd party payment provider?

Thanks.

[OlleBitStarz]

20 hours ago, Fiekie247 said:

Hi Olle

In regards to the above in red, I know with BTC you payout the full amount.

What happens if I win 50K and using Neteller, and Skrill, does that get send in 1 go or will it be split given the limits from the 3rd party payment provider?

Thanks.

Hi mate,

With FIAT we do full cashouts as well without any restrictions on our end. We do divide them up in smaller chunks for certain payment options (on top of my head in batches of €4,000 each as that's our default limit per transaction for many payment options), but there's no limit on how may of those €4,000 withdrawals you can make. If you would be super lucky however, and win like 1 million or something, we'll arrange for higher limit per withdrawal to make it as smooth as possible. No need to press the withdrawal button a gazillion times, ain't nobody got time for that : )

Olle

[Fiekie247]

1 hour ago, OlleBitStarz said:

Hi mate,

With FIAT we do full cashouts as well without any restrictions on our end. We do divide them up in smaller chunks for certain payment options (on top of my head in batches of €4,000 each as that's our default limit per transaction for many payment options), but there's no limit on how may of those €4,000 withdrawals you can make. If you would be super lucky however, and win like 1 million or something, we'll arrange for higher limit per withdrawal to make it as smooth as possible. No need to press the withdrawal button a gazillion times, ain't nobody got time for that : )

Olle

Guess you need to switch that RTP to 400% on DOA2, cause I am playing there soon, to get 100 000x win soon.

Thanks for clarification, BTW - Any update on PlaynGo minimum bet of 2 euro in BTC? Did you guys manage to lower it? similar like how Pragmatic Play slots bets are low?

Great DP tho.

Fiekie

[Afi4wins]

4 hours ago, Fiekie247 said:

Guess you need to switch that RTP to 400% on DOA2, cause I am playing there soon, to get 100 000x win soon.

Fiekie

Hope you've got your armoured van waiting and ready for you to get that 100,000x win matey...good luck! 

[OlleBitStarz]

17 hours ago, Fiekie247 said:

Guess you need to switch that RTP to 400% on DOA2, cause I am playing there soon, to get 100 000x win soon.

Thanks for clarification, BTW - Any update on PlaynGo minimum bet of 2 euro in BTC? Did you guys manage to lower it? similar like how Pragmatic Play slots bets are low?

Great DP tho.

Fiekie

Hi man!

Haha. Funny you say that. We did have a guy hitting a 10,000x multiplier the other day (screenshot in the BitStarz competition thread here on AG).  I believe you can beat him

Let me double check on the max/min bet. I didn't get a reply from our AM as far as I know and I totally forgot  Will get back to you!

Olle

[pokiewins]

 

On 3/16/2020 at 8:01 PM, OlleBitStarz said:

Now, I can't speak for other casinos out there as everyone have their own way of doing certain things. However, we have as a policy
to only verify when you've requested a withdrawal. I think both us a casino and you as a player have reasons and valid arguments
as to why pre-verification or post-verification is the best way to go. 

For you as a player, I understand that you wish to get the verification out of the way ASAP so you don't have to hassle with documents
or wait for a casino to look through all the documents. With that said, our verification process is generally very fast, and once verified
you can enjoy very speedy withdrawals as we have an average of 10 minute processing time and we don't cap withdrawals at any amount.

So what valid argument do you have from the casinos end that "post-verification" is the way to go? You have simply listed the reasons from the players end as to why "pre-verification" is absolutely better for the player.

As you have stated verification is generally very fast which means there isn't a strict vigorous verification process and I'd imagine not very labour intensive on your end - so why can't this simply be done prior to a deposit or at least after a small deposit and prior to a withdrawal? 

From me as a player this looks like a tactical decision which some casinos use so they have the capabilities to delay any substantial withdrawal with post verification delays (i've heard them all over the years - The image isn't clear, It can't be scanned I need a selfie of you and your bank card blah blah blah) in hope the player will recall and play the funds. Of course this tactic is nothing new and has been around since the early days but having the backing of "askgamblers" and having what looks to be a great reputation why would you not cater to the player on such a simple change in process if there was nothing else behind it? 

 

On 3/16/2020 at 8:01 PM, OlleBitStarz said:

As for the deposit fees we're looking into removing them actually, and we're currently in the process to see if that's a possibility. As it stands
today, the percentage you pay on deposit as fee doesn't cover what we as a casino have to pay to the payments merchants. So we're basically
splitting the cost. With that said I am aware of some casinos having fees on deposits and some do not, but we try to make that up by giving
more bonuses and other gambling related perks once you play with us

I've literally played at 100's of casinos and have never copped a deposit fee. I suggest changing your credit card processing provider if what you have said is correct and we are effectively splitting the cost so they are charging you 5% for processing a credit card. Anyone off the street can sign up to facilities with  API's at less then 2%, let alone a what looks to be a large established casino with many daily transactions that would give you negotiating power.  2.5%  accounts to a large amount when depositing $1000 - your talking $25 which can buy you a beer and a steak in most places here in Australia (I'm hungry and thirsty all of a sudden) and mathmatically your killing the RTP straight out the gate. I've also came to realise that your FIAT withdrawal transfers are only done in EURO's not the players local currency - which in turn your passing on any conversion fees to the player. Another fee which the player cops. 

From a Business standpoint you are shooting yourselves in the foot and losing allot of potential players (myself included) who are looking to try you out instead of playing at their normal casino which is probably one of the 90% that don't require post withdrawal verification and don't hit you with a deposit fee. These processes and fees slap you in the face before you even start playing!  

Personally I'd recommend looking at your business model and potentially saving some money on giving away pointless bonuses -   20 - 200 free spins @ 0.20c a spin on some low volatile game (with a max $100 withdrawal limit) doesn't entice the kind of player who will keep your doors open . What it does is makes you feel ripped off the moment you walk in the door. You have the reputation and support - now make your casino great! I've since gone back to my regular casinos and didn't get a chance to give you guys a try. Thanks for at least communicating in a screened yet somewhat public forum. Not many are as active at defending themselves as Bitstarz so I look forward to your reply.  

Not only my 2 cents but this is a feeling from alot of my gambling friends who steer clear of you. 

 Cheers

  

[pinnit2015]

Must admit, don't agree with what Olle's saying here: in fact, if you ever went with the attitude 'only verify at withdrawal stage' I'd argue you're breaching the LCCP code about no withdrawal should be delayed to to document requests. Whether it's done in 5 minutes/hours or days is irrelevant. Lot of places here simply wont let you play a first deposit until done so now - quite rightly. 

Arguments for and against pre and post? Personally, I don't think there's much of an argument for it done post for both the casino and the player - Hey, Mr casino, can you tell me why you allowed someone to deposit 10k who was underaged etc? Not their cash etc? - Oh, we only verify if they're lucky and cash out....hmmm. 

Fees? Only BGO, Mr Green and the ***** Aspire sites that i know of charge deposit fees - essentially passing the transaction fees onto punters? No thanks - that's for the business to manage. 

 

[pinnit2015]

Also, still not convinced as to the legality of these, essentially, surcharges? I know folk like Just Eat tried to get round the PSD2 Directive by creating a 'service charge'.

Regardless, IMO the fees are a business expense, not a customer cost and lets be honest - the reason the Directive above was issued in recent years because companies got greedy (up until then they could pass on the charge of what it actually cost them, usually 0.6% ish, but some were trying to pass on up to 20% - ergo, making money)

[OlleBitStarz]

@pinnit2015

Hi mate,

First of all, I'd love for us to have some sort of easy KYC process prior to playing that could be done automatically (just like when you sign up for a revolut account etc), you just upload the ID, take your selfie, and we're all good.

One of the issues that we see with a lot of people who ask to pre-verify accounts is that we get a lot of fraudsters trying to do that. They don't want to get caught after they've deposited their money, and see if they can get away with using the fake docs they have in their possession. By them pre-verifying they know we are clueless as to what they're up to and got a foot through the door. That. would be the reason for us not being big fans of pre-verification. It might be our fault as well that we are not having a better verification system in place and rely on doing things manually. 

Also, I totally buy your argument as to the deposit fees, hence we're looking into removing it all together

Olle

 

[pinnit2015]

3 hours ago, OlleBitStarz said:

@pinnit2015

Hi mate,

First of all, I'd love for us to have some sort of easy KYC process prior to playing that could be done automatically (just like when you sign up for a revolut account etc), you just upload the ID, take your selfie, and we're all good.

One of the issues that we see with a lot of people who ask to pre-verify accounts is that we get a lot of fraudsters trying to do that. They don't want to get caught after they've deposited their money, and see if they can get away with using the fake docs they have in their possession. By them pre-verifying they know we are clueless as to what they're up to and got a foot through the door. That. would be the reason for us not being big fans of pre-verification. It might be our fault as well that we are not having a better verification system in place and rely on doing things manually. 

Also, I totally buy your argument as to the deposit fees, hence we're looking into removing it all together

Olle

 

Cheers Olle, thanks for the candid reply

I know you can’t speak for other casinos but is there much scope to automate (you said your KYC like most places I imagine is manual) the process? I mentioned a few there who Iv never so much as sent a copy of my debit card or passport etc to and just curious if it is because being (for example) from the U.K. they have the ability to run these checks in the back ground? 

Mentioned on here before that there’s such a massive difference between going though KYC or even SOW between Those places and basically all the rest, I always wonder why there’s such a difference of approaches

 

 

 

[imanorange]

I tried this when signing up with Melbet about 6 months ago. I insisted on verifying my identity as I have all the documentation they could possibly need and more. I was told flatly to wait until the time arises.

Sure enough about 2 months ago, they asked for documentation but oddly enough they only wanted to see my passport and a photo of me holding it.

[cocopop3011]

2 hours ago, imanorange said:

I tried this when signing up with Melbet Casino about 6 months ago. I insisted on verifying my identity as I have all the documentation they could possibly need and more. I was told flatly to wait until the time arises.

Sure enough about 2 months ago, they asked for documentation but oddly enough they only wanted to see my passport and a photo of me holding it.

And did it get accepted with no issues?

[imanorange]

8 hours ago, cocopop3011 said:

And did it get accepted with no issues?

Yes it did, but it took two weeks for them to finally say I was verified and release the pending withdrawal request. It wasn't a big deal and it was only a couple hundred USD. They didn't even say excuse us for the delay or anything, just a non personal quick email stating, your account is verified. This is after I queried them politely a few times with no response.

At a couple other casinos I have had no problems initiating the verification right away. A couple wanted verification before playing which is fine with me.

[cocopop3011]

15 hours ago, imanorange said:

Yes it did, but it took two weeks for them to finally say I was verified and release the pending withdrawal request. It wasn't a big deal and it was only a couple hundred USD. They didn't even say excuse us for the delay or anything, just a non personal quick email stating, your account is verified. This is after I queried them politely a few times with no response.

At a couple other casinos I have had no problems initiating the verification right away. A couple wanted verification before playing which is fine with me.

Ahh, that's a pain that you had to wait so long but I'm glad you had it in the end. I guess, in an ideal world we'd all be able to verify before depositing