Misleading RTPs

[Kingraj]

Hi all, been thinking alot about those games where max win is 10,000x bet but it's capped at £250,000 which would be 2,500x bet if played at £100.

So one would have to bet no higher than £25 to be allowed to win 10,000x bet. 

Is the RTP taking into account people betting at all levels or is it based on with the 10,000x bet, which than means anyone playing higher than £25 will have a lower RTP than advertised? 

If its the latter shouldn't they state the RTP for £50 max 5,000x and £100 max 2,500x wins? 

I hope I explained my question clearly.

[Afi4wins]

8 minutes ago, Kingraj said:

Hi all, been thinking alot about those games where max win is 10,000x bet but it's capped at £250,000 which would be 2,500x bet if played at £100.

So one would have to bet no higher than £25 to be allowed to win 10,000x bet. 

Is the RTP taking into account people betting at all levels or is it based on with the 10,000x bet, which than means anyone playing higher than £25 will have a lower RTP than advertised? 

If its the latter shouldn't they state the RTP for £50 max 5,000x and £100 max 2,500x wins? 

I hope I explained my question clearly.

First of all, let's not forget that those games are designed and programmed to create money for the game providers and casinos. In order to do so, the games MUST attract all kinds of players to try them out, play them as much as possible, and maybe even stick with them...such as in Dead Or Alive, a classic example.

Secondly, games that have a max win of anything lower than 1000x would only attract the small fishes, up to 5000x the medium to big fishes, and anything above 5000x would certainly attract the white sharks and the whales, and these are the real targets to get all those huge revenues from.

Thirdly, that 250,000 max win limit is NOT something new! I was playing at local gaming arcades almost 2 decades ago and each one of them had a notice of 200,000 or 250,000 maximum win limit. Now, it seems that online casinos have begun implementing it as well, perhaps due to the weak socioeconomic prevailing conditions, that even established well-financed casinos need some sort of second defense mechanism in place.

In short, those 10,000x max win games are to cater for the above reasons.

I cannot say for certain if the game TRTP can be designed to fluctuate with any bet size, which I don't think is possible anyway, but this is where Artificial Intelligence has now become a major regulating mechanism for all game volatilities, from low medium to ultra high medium. Again, I cannot say to what extent that AI can actually play its role, but I have seen quite enough of how it has 'regulated and manipulated' my big wins! What used to come in one huge win is now coming in 2 or 3 broken-up smaller wins instead!

So to your last question, Kingraj, no, I don't think it would be possible (or logical) for any game provider to state varying TRTPs for any specific bet size, but then again, I guess we will never know, unless the game providers themselves speak up and verify them. Would they do so? Again, I would think "no"...why deter away those huge bettors with a lower TRTP when its them that are the main targets? Know what I mean? 

[pinnit2015]

AFAIK the U.K. rules state that if different RTPs exist for different bet sizes then they must state it (can’t find it on phone)

I always thought the capped wins are built into the overall RTP and used as a means of ensuring that the game stays within the bounds of the RTP. 

I don’t know, now that I think about it

 

[ValDes]

11 hours ago, Kingraj said:

Hi all, been thinking alot about those games where max win is 10,000x bet but it's capped at £250,000 which would be 2,500x bet if played at £100.

So one would have to bet no higher than £25 to be allowed to win 10,000x bet. 

Is the RTP taking into account people betting at all levels or is it based on with the 10,000x bet, which than means anyone playing higher than £25 will have a lower RTP than advertised? 

If its the latter shouldn't they state the RTP for £50 max 5,000x and £100 max 2,500x wins? 

I hope I explained my question clearly.

Reasonable questions you got there mate, all of them... 

Unfortunately, no one but the relevant gaming provider could provide the relevant and most important, the correct answers. And for some reasons they simply refuse to do that... For decades...

[pinnit2015]

Just remember that it's all random.

The caveat being that it's controlled randomness 

[Kingraj]

14 hours ago, pinnit2015 said:

AFAIK the U.K. rules state that if different RTPs exist for different bet sizes then they must state it (can’t find it on phone)

I always thought the capped wins are built into the overall RTP and used as a means of ensuring that the game stays within the bounds of the RTP. 

I don’t know, now that I think about it

 

Yes that's exactly my point is the capped wins on bets higher than £25 taken into account on the rtp if that's the case than bets £25 or less should provide better winning potential or do they just do testing with a lower bet than state the rtp and not take into account the capped winnings on higher bets 

[pinnit2015]

Logically...any winnings above the cap 'go back' to the casino so in effect the RTP is in real terms possibly lower: if they used 100 quid as the average bet across those billion spins and had a 50k cap then the 96% is looking more like 46