Leovegas takes advantage of problem gamlers?

[solaris3]

This is a thread to post my experiences with Leovegas and my gamling issues which lead to huge losses.

It is not a post to warn or encourage gambling in any sense, that will be up to those who reads it to make their own mind about.

After being gambling free for a couple of months I think it is important to go back in time and understand what really happened. After all I lost 80'000€ playing on Leovegas from May 2017 to February 2018.

I loved playing...at times, because most of the times I was destined to loose money it seems.

 

So I dug up my old mails to Leovegas and manage to categorize the worst dialogues I had. I must say I did not recognize myself in many of these and got a little embarrassed when reading them. Oh, how sudden loss of money can affect a persons mood...

 

Here are the highlights:

 

-Mail sent 21st of September 2017 where I demand 10% back of everything I have lost since May.

 

-Mail sent 28th of September 2017 where I state that Leovegas is making fraud against customers through marketing.

 

-Mail sent 11th November 2017 where I state that I do not win anything anymore (it is hopeless) and suggest instability in the gambling business.

 

-Mail sent 27th of January 2018 where I am very angry because I continue to loose massive amounts of money.

 

-Mail sent 16th of February 2018 with document on how much I have lost in average each month and the reply is "looks normal". Is it normal to loose 7000€ in average a month?

 

-Mail sent 19th of February 2018 where I suggest that the slots are rigged when playing high spins and low spins.

 

After this I sent a very angry mail to the leaders in Leovegas and then they closed my account.

I have also not listed all the bonuses I was sent to try to comfort all my losses, but in fact made me play more.

 

 

Leovegas have stated that they followed every step to make sure they were delivering a responsible gaming experience to me by:
1. Calling me when I started to spend a lot of money asking if I was comfortable.

2. Suggesting to use Leo Safeplay when I complained.

 

Would a problem gambler care about what Leovegas suggests?

Would a problem gambler loose his mind and send very harsh content in the mails?

Why would Leovegas contantly send small bonuses when I complained?


I hope big spenders and all players for that sake can be treated better in the future. Gambling isn't going anywhere, but there should be a fine balance between operators and players. There are huge responsibilities on both sides. I have not seen this, only the greedy side that does not care for potential personal issues players can develope.

After all Leovegas has been penalised not so long ago for marketing towards problem gamblers which I have seen no comment on.

 

 

Thank you for reading and have a lovely summer!

[pinnit2015]

Probably 2 school's of thoughts:

 

1. Casino's have RG duties towards punters - a sort of Social Contract. They should be proactive. UKGC seem to be in favour of this as they use punters asking for regular bonus's as red flag. If we run with this your comments would suggest they should have done something.

 

2. Individuals are wholly responsible for their own actions - more a Laissez Faire approach. You'd have gambled, unless you sought help, anywhere. Dislike of 'Big Govt' approach, dislike of the nanny state. Will the alcoholic find another pub/drink? Course they will. 

 

The answer is probably somewhere in the middle. The casino can't be the arbiter of all lifestyle choices but, given the cash they make from this arguably more destructive habit than drugs, they shouldn't be able to just skip into the sunset. 

 

We now live in such a litigation based society. Always looking to point the finger to anyone but ourselves. 

[Afi4wins]

In short...where casino business is concerned...money comes first...all other matters come second and behind! 

 

If players cannot control their own behaviours, desires and temptations, and expects casinos to do their nanny bit for them...that's asking for big trouble in due time! Despite what those rulings are supposed to do and regulate, this will never be successful...simply because money matters would override those rulings! 

[solaris3]

Probably 2 school's of thoughts:

 

1. Casino's have RG duties towards punters - a sort of Social Contract. They should be proactive. UKGC seem to be in favour of this as they use punters asking for regular bonus's as red flag. If we run with this your comments would suggest they should have done something.

 

2. Individuals are wholly responsible for their own actions - more a Laissez Faire approach. You'd have gambled, unless you sought help, anywhere. Dislike of 'Big Govt' approach, dislike of the nanny state. Will the alcoholic find another pub/drink? Course they will. 

 

The answer is probably somewhere in the middle. The casino can't be the arbiter of all lifestyle choices but, given the cash they make from this arguably more destructive habit than drugs, they shouldn't be able to just skip into the sunset. 

 

We now live in such a litigation based society. Always looking to point the finger to anyone but ourselves. 

 

 

Very good answer and I agree with what you write.

 

There are so many cases you can read about where casinos constantly fire away at big spenders using sleezy techniques to take a horrible advantage over them.

Last case I read about was a guy they knew when had salaray and started contacting him around that time to make him play, as well as what time of the day he was most likely to play. This was one of the bigger casinos.

What really worries me about it is that the casino knew he'd loose what he'd play or else they are playing their own risky game.

In cases like this the casinos should recieve so heavy fines they'd never do it again.

[solaris3]

@Afi4wins

 

And that's that then. Good countries are starting to ban online casinos on the whole then since it's so easy to take advantage over people with potential gambling issues.
France, Albania, Norway, Greece, Poland, Slovakia, Czech Rebublic and still counting.
 

[Afi4wins]

@Afi4wins

 

And that's that then. Good countries are starting to ban online casinos on the whole then since it's so easy to take advantage over people with potential gambling issues.

France, Albania, Norway, Greece, Poland, Slovakia, Czech Rebublic and still counting.

 

 

Yes, the only way to safeguard citizens and netizens from gambling addiction would be a total ban on online casinos. Nonetheless, this can never be 100% complete either, because existing land casinos may be almost impossible to get rid of! And some countries would never ban online casinos, or close down existing land casinos either - their country economy depends on it! 

 

The fact of life...where there is money, there will be gambling! 

[solaris3]

@Afi4wins

You are right, but with advanced machine learning and A.I. you will easily spot a potential problem gambler,

thus preventing a lot of tragedies. Just need the laws to change a little bit. FInd the perfect balnce between casinos and players
 

[Afi4wins]

@Afi4wins

 

You are right, but with advanced machine learning and A.I. you will easily spot a potential problem gambler,

thus preventing a lot of tragedies. Just need the laws to change a little bit. FInd the perfect balnce between casinos and players

 

 

The biggest problem with AI is the wrong usage of it! Game providers would use it to make more profit for themselves...if it isn't already inserted into their games algorithms!

 

I have had so so many instances during my current plays that when I changed my bet to the minimum, a small win would instantly come, when all the while it was avoiding all my bigger bets! NetEnt games, Microgaming games, you name it...I have experienced it! 

 

So this blardy thing known as AI may not actually work for us gamblers...but against us! 

[ValDes]

This is a thread to post my experiences with Leovegas and my gamling issues which lead to huge losses.

It is not a post to warn or encourage gambling in any sense, that will be up to those who reads it to make their own mind about.

 

After being gambling free for a couple of months I think it is important to go back in time and understand what really happened. After all I lost 80'000€ playing on Leovegas from May 2017 to February 2018.

I loved playing...at times, because most of the times I was destined to loose money it seems.

 

So I dug up my old mails to Leovegas and manage to categorize the worst dialogues I had. I must say I did not recognize myself in many of these and got a little embarrassed when reading them. Oh, how sudden loss of money can affect a persons mood...

 

Here are the highlights:

 

-Mail sent 21st of September 2017 where I demand 10% back of everything I have lost since May.

 

-Mail sent 28th of September 2017 where I state that Leovegas is making fraud against customers through marketing.

 

-Mail sent 11th November 2017 where I state that I do not win anything anymore (it is hopeless) and suggest instability in the gambling business.

 

-Mail sent 27th of January 2018 where I am very angry because I continue to loose massive amounts of money.

 

-Mail sent 16th of February 2018 with document on how much I have lost in average each month and the reply is "looks normal". Is it normal to loose 7000€ in average a month?

 

-Mail sent 19th of February 2018 where I suggest that the slots are rigged when playing high spins and low spins.

 

After this I sent a very angry mail to the leaders in Leovegas and then they closed my account.

I have also not listed all the bonuses I was sent to try to comfort all my losses, but in fact made me play more.

 

 

Leovegas have stated that they followed every step to make sure they were delivering a responsible gaming experience to me by:

1. Calling me when I started to spend a lot of money asking if I was comfortable.

2. Suggesting to use Leo Safeplay when I complained.

 

Would a problem gambler care about what Leovegas suggests?

Would a problem gambler loose his mind and send very harsh content in the mails?

Why would Leovegas contantly send small bonuses when I complained?

 

 

I hope big spenders and all players for that sake can be treated better in the future. Gambling isn't going anywhere, but there should be a fine balance between operators and players. There are huge responsibilities on both sides. I have not seen this, only the greedy side that does not care for potential personal issues players can develope.

After all Leovegas has been penalised not so long ago for marketing towards problem gamblers which I have seen no comment on.

 

 

Thank you for reading and have a lovely summer!

 

Hello there and welcome to AskGamblers. 

 

I have a single question for you, hope you don't mind... 

 

Between Sep. 2017 and Feb 2018, could you prove somehow you realized you might have became a problem gambler and made any attempts to seek help? 

 

Thanks. 

[pinnit2015]

Another note - when did the term problem gambler arise and replace gambling addict?

 

Money's irrelevant in many ways in respect of the issues gambling can bring - lack of it is more a consequence of the actual problem. 

 

Agree with it or not RG has been pushed onto casinos and in the UK it's not going to go away - 32 Red have just been fined 2 million for RG issues. 

 

Stopping marketing email to Self Excluded players should be food and water for casinos - any casino who can't do this should be fined purely for incompetence. 

 

Failure to identify warning signs is where it gets harder - me going on a rant about 5 Bonanza bonus's of 20x or less will see many casinos going 'ooohhh, he's angry=has an issue'. Er...no. i have an issue with the game but not gambling etc. 

 

If casino's outline their RG processes and follow them they shouldn't be fined. They discharged this weird 'duty' they've been passed

 

But they could be if UKGC - depends how they get out of bed in the morning.

[solaris3]

Hello there and welcome to AskGamblers. 

 

I have a single question for you, hope you don't mind... 

 

Between Sep. 2017 and Feb 2018, could you prove somehow you realized you might have became a problem gambler and made any attempts to seek help? 

 

Thanks. 

 

Hello

 

Yes, I could provide a lot from my personal side and converstaions etc, but why do you ask?