Betsonic -Confiscated my winnings

[vlad123]

After losing entirely my first deposit with 100% bonus of EUR 100 at Betsonic, I decided it's not a good-luck place for me. Then after a few months they've sent me another similar offer due to their website remake, and I've decided to give them a second chance. Deposited EUR 100, received 100% bonus, made 2 bets of 100 (the maximum by their T&C, which I always carefully read, of course), lost the first one, but the second, made on a big sports underdog, won 1176. Maybe not an unlucky place for me, after all? So I've continued playing to fulfill the rollover, while not exceeding the max bet of 100, and combined a few INDEPENDENT bets of 100 on one slip (a standard time-saving tool at many sportsbooks), a player select a few events and then bets the same amount (100 in my case) on them all, and since they are completely independent separate sport events, of course they count as separate bets, even though they are "united" in one slip for saving time (attaching printscreen of this standard option and my bets+balance at Betsonic). Completed the rollover of 1400, while continuing the lucky streak and rising until 2534, and requested withdrawal. However, Betsonic told me they only count up to 100 for rollover per each bet, so my two bets of 500 (5*100 of independent bets, united in one slip) and 6*100 only counted for 100, for rollover requirements. Being a peaceful person and having a lucky streak there, I didn't argue that (maybe I would've won more while betting on this lucky streak), and accepted their claim I should wager another 900, after all, I like gambling, especially while being lucky! But from that point on, all ***** broke loose from BetSonic and they've decided to turn into very bad losers and simply fraudsters, since they didn't want to admit their loss of EUR 2534, which is not even close enough for a sum for which any REPUTABLE casino would even think of ruining the reputation and become fraudsters, it's not millions we're talking about. They decided to ***** me, whatever it takes, and with whatever the consequences.

First they've demanded I'll do the remaining rollover 900 with bets of 1(!!!), lying that "their traders limited you at 1 per bet" (a lie which they later admitted, in writing, it was an obvious revenge/***** me attempt), and when I've realized they are not playing fair and are only after avenging and ***** me and 99.99% will later find ridiculous excuses to confiscate my balance even if I followed their trick and made 900 bets of 1 (my obvious assumption later become 100% true, unsurprisingly), and decided not to waste my time on these silly 900 bets (and THEN be confiscated by their lame made-up excuse) but tried to get them straight at that point, first trying to talk sense to them myself, then with Gambling Grumbles - they've only continued with their fraudulent line and closed my account with all my money there, for me only trying to make them behave well and straight, as a casino should behave in this industry - rather than ***** paying at will and deciding to confiscate whichever moneys they want. They even had the audacity to point me to Curacao "regulator", knowing ahead it will do nothing, just as an *****-cover. I've tried it, and sure enough, it did nothing, with Betsonic replying to them and me in such childish BS it was funny and sad altogether - if I posted their replies here (which I might do), you wouldn't believe their smugness and audacity, they are not even ashamed to be that corrupt and answer complete BS to me and their "regulator" . They've tried about 5 different lame excuses for robbing me, with me easily refuting their excuses time after time, and eventually they thought they've found the "winning" excuse by accusing me of overbetting, these 6*100 and 5*100 bets instead of their max bet 100. And when I've explained them the simple true (which they also have, of course, all the history and records), that it were NOT single bets of 500 + 600 but a simple bet-unification in one slip of 5-6 bets of 100, they decided they don't really care about the truth (how surprising) and stopped communicating with a stupid slam of the door "We've explained to this player and the regulator more than once why his money is confiscated, bye". Another BS by these bad losers and fraudsters.
Lawyers have an expression, "If the law is on your side, argue the law. If the facts are on your side, argue the facts. If neither is on your side then bang the table."

ThePogg also wasn't able to persuade them to behave as they should, and neither did the very experienced Max (Casinomeister's PAB manager), all they got was another redirection to talk to Curacao "regulator" - "Talk to the hand!", in simple words.
So any player thinking about playing there - it's very simple: as long as you lose, or maybe even win A LITTLE - it's fine, they like you and behave well. As soon as you have luck and want to withdraw substantial winnings (a mere EUR 2534 were enough for them to shed their "nice" masks and show their real color of corrupt fraudsters) - BEWARE, you are HIGHLY likely to be completely balance-confiscated, screwed and bullshitted all the way through. They are "creative" like kids with their silly BS excuses and have an iron "defense" - "Talk to the hand, hm, pardon, our Curacao regulator". Another disgrace for the industry. Since I cannot and will not tolerate such an outright scam and behavior, and must retaliate and restore justice and regain my rightfully hard-lucky-earned money, I'm consulting with a few lawyers about how and where to sue them, a long and tedious process - just another indirect damage caused to me by these scammers, not considering the direct ones.

For further details see:<SNIP> and BetSonic - made it impossible for me to complete WR - Found-for-player

These are also useful to see who Betsonic really are:
<SNIP> A very low rating of D+ , and they've given an SBR rep who tried to mediate between us a "talk to the hand" gesture, standard for them. Almost the same they've given to other major mediators, obviously knowing they are in the wrong - if they had even ONE good proof/argument, I'd surrender my case and close the issue in their favor two years ago(!!!) without having to continue fighting them and therefore spreading their bad reputation and wasting my and others' time.

<SNIP>

<SNIP>
"Moderator: I do not think you have the ability to take the post down do you? And if it were me I would not be concerned by their lame threats.
I'd say the book knows they are wrong and have effectively admitted it by giving you half your money. I'd just submit the complaint form and let an SBR agent deal with the book for you and not respond at all. "
Another objective industry expert says what he thinks about them... Their profile is quite clear, IMHO.
 

 

<SNIP>

etc., there are plenty of complaints about them if you just search the web with BetSonic + "problems" or "rogue" оr "scam" or "fraud". Which is what I did, when I understood they are unscrupulously ***** me, taking advantage of their non-existing "regulation" and demanding me to play the silly 900*1, after which, undoubtedly, they'd come with some lame excuse to rob me anyhow, AFTER having me wasted lots of time on these stupid 900 bets of 1. So I was forced to start the fight against these crooks immediately via GamblingGrumbles, and then ThePogg, PAB, etc., they've even admitted in writing a few times their "900 bets of 1 since the traders limited you at 1 per bet" demand was a pure lie (as if I didn't know it) designed to ***** me, after they got angry with me winning too much for their liking, and behaved in the same smug, unscrupulous, corrupt and fraudulent way ever since.

I've tried very hard to save the publication in many major forums as a doom's day weapon, and still tried to talk sense to them without burning them completely, though they are as stupid as they are corrupt, it seems  To take all this negative PR from major mediators, risk a big lawsuit from me etc. is much more damaging than simply doing the right thing and paying me a non-substantial (from a SERIOUS casino's standpoint, that is) deserved winnings, this is a terrible and dumb business management, speaking as an experienced entrepreneur myself.

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Edited May 10, 2018 by cocopop3011
External links removed: Please stick to forum rules. Titled also edited.

[cocopop3011]

Well if I didn't have a headache before I've certainly got one now after reading through all that!

 

To be honest, you've already gone down avenues that could help, we don't have this casino at AG I'm not uite sure what exactly you want us to say on this one? IMO you're fighting a losing battle here.

[ValDes]

Hello there and welcome to AskGamblers. 

 

First of all, keep in mind your topic has just been moved to the proper forum section and namely - Poker and Sportsbook

 

Furthermore, while I'm really sorry about your troubles with the aforementioned brand, unfortunately we are not able to help you with the AskGamblers Casino Complaints Service due to 1/ we are not dealing with sportsbook related issues and 2/ BetSonic is not reviewed and presented here at AskGamblers. 

 

Still, if you believe your rights were somehow infringed by the operator, don't give up and keep chasing further with the regulatory body. Strongly encourage you to change your tone of voice in the meantime though and pay special attention to the usage of words like "rogue", "scam" etc before the regulator's final decision. 

 

Good Luck!  

[vlad123]

Hi and thank you.

 

I am not believing, but rather KNOWING, for 100% (and everybody who saw this conflict so far has completely agreed with me, including experienced players and 4 major mediators - Gambling Grumbles, Casinomeister, SBR and ThePogg),

that my rights were not somehow infringed, but rather completely and utterly crushed by the operator's steady line of lying (including a few times they've admitted it in writing, unsuprisingly), trying to ***** me with their 

distorted calculations of my rollover (I've already completed it in full once, before they've begun the mess with their corruption and bad loosers' BS) and with their ridiculous demand of 900 bets of 1 (after which, undoubtedly, 

they'd invent another BS confiscation excuses - which they've indeed done many times later), and then simply stealing my money and giving me a "Talk to the hand, pardon, our Curacao 'regulator'" answer. Which they've also done 

to the major mediators, sending them to the "regulator" one-way street, while knowing perfectly well there is no one to talk to there - unless you, as a business/casino, want to pay for obtaining their funny "license", or "a 

Curacao license to rob and BS", more precisely.

 

I'm not giving up of course after two years of fighting these crooks - will fight them till the very end, even if a full-scale expensive lawsuit(s) in Hungary and/or Curacao will be reqired - but the "regulator" is virtually 

non-existant in this case, all it did was to forward Betsonic's completely BS replies and ever-changing confiscation excuses to me (anyhow I've received these emails from Betsonic). E.g., one of the most hilarious excuses of theirs 

(I kept refuting them time after time) was: "The player's bonus money has expired after 90 days" - yes, after they had blocked my account :-))))) I had "only" about 85 days left to complete AGAIN the rollover of 900, if they allowed 

me to normally do so, instead of being very bad losers/rogues and starting to ***** me from that point on. And their other, ever changing excuses, were of similar sort, a childish BS to try to "justify" the robbery, whereas the 

"regulator" was of course silent, being paid by Betsonic for their "license" and doing a "great job" of only forwarding me their emails... So believe me, I was as polite, politically-correct and nice as possible, while there was 

still a chance to reach a reasonable resolution/decision with the help of the regulator, which did NOTHING, and his final decision was also doing NOTHING (expectedly), thereby allowing Betsonic's fraud to continue freely. 

I can send you / attach here my final email to Curacao "regulator", so you'll get the full picture, they are 99% only taking payments from licensees (such as Betsonic) and doing next to nothing to help the players, if needed.

That's a well-known fact in the industry, as I've discovered post-factum, trying to get justice and being constantly laughed at and BS-ed in my face by Betsonic, with the "regulator's" fraud-approving silence.

 

"IMO you're fighting a losing battle here." - with all due respect, I and my lawyer strongly disagree. And Betsonic as a business/casino would be MUCH wiser (even if still corrupt) to just do the right thing, pay me my fully 

deserved winnings (now with a serious compensation for all their direct + indirect damages inflicted to me by their fraud), rather than losing MUCH more in reputation and current/future revenues, when the entire online-gambling 

world sees their real terrible-looser's face - when the player gets lucky, that is, they were very nice as long as I've lost, a typical black-hole Curacao "licensed" casino...

 

"I'm not uite sure what exactly you want us to say on this one? " - I'll gladly accept any useful feedback, if any, and I'll quote your lovely Zoya from Customer Support:

"I could only suggest to you to use our forum section, and write your experience with them, so others may be informed as well, and to seek further help by contacting lawyer office.

Thank you for your feedback regarding this issue, and I am sorry to hear that you didnt have any progress with the regulators."

 

"1/ we are not dealing with sportsbook related issues and 2/ BetSonic is not reviewed and presented here at AskGamblers. " - they are also a casino, not only a sportsbook. I've naively thought (before playing there) that being both, 

it minimizes the chances for roguishness, little did I know... I am aware that you don't list them, that's why I haven't used your great complaints service, it was one of my first options two years ago when the fight had only begun! :-)

[cocopop3011]

 

"IMO you're fighting a losing battle here." - with all due respect, I and my lawyer strongly disagree. And Betsonic as a business/casino would be MUCH wiser (even if still corrupt) to just do the right thing, pay me my fully 

deserved winnings (now with a serious compensation for all their direct + indirect damages inflicted to me by their fraud), rather than losing MUCH more in reputation and current/future revenues, when the entire online-gambling 

world sees their real terrible-looser's face - when the player gets lucky, that is, they were very nice as long as I've Lost, a typical black-hole Curacao "licensed" casino...

 

"I'm not uite sure what exactly you want us to say on this one? " - I'll gladly accept any useful feedback, if any, and I'll quote your lovely Zoya from Customer Support:

"I could only suggest to you to use our forum section, and write your experience with them, so others may be informed as well, and to seek further help by contacting lawyer office.

Thank you for your feedback regarding this issue, and I am sorry to hear that you didnt have any progress with the regulators."

 

Then I wish you every success in getting your winnings and I sincerely hope you don't end up at a loss after the lawyer and court fees. But I do wish you luck.

[vlad123]

Thanks, we take that into consideration, obviously, but it doesn't hurt our determination too much, since it's much more than money for me, it's also a matter of principle, honour and justice, we cannot let these corrupts simply rob me for no wrongdoing (apart from having temporary luck and defending my heavily crushed rights at an ever-stronger fashion) and think they can get away just by smearing me and major mediators(!!) with childish BS and lies, just because they think they can hide in Curacao's banana republic and behind their paid puppet "regulator".

 

Besides, almost always all the lawsuit expenses fall on the losing side, and we're quite certain who it's gonna be... :-) Unless the courts there are as "straight" as their "regulators", it's one of our current and last checks before suing them BIG TIME (for all my mentioned damages). So the chances for peaceful resolution (which any normal court would demand to exhaust completely, prior to a big lawsuit) are diminishing every week. Their completely misplaced stubbornness.is actually probably good for us!

[cocopop3011]

Thanks, we take that into consideration, obviously, but it doesn't hurt our determination too much, since it's much more than money for me, it's also a matter of principle, honour and justice, we cannot let these corrupts simply rob me for no wrongdoing (apart from having temporary luck and defending my heavily crushed rights at an ever-stronger fashion) and think they can get away just by smearing me and major mediators(!!) with childish BS and lies, just because they think they can hide in Curacao's banana republic and behind their paid puppet "regulator".

 

Besides, almost always all the lawsuit expenses fall on the losing side, and we're quite certain who it's gonna be... :-) Unless the courts there are as "straight" as their "regulators", it's one of our current and last checks before suing them BIG TIME (for all my mentioned damages). So the chances for peaceful resolution (which any normal court would demand to exhaust completely, prior to a big lawsuit) are diminishing every week. Their completely misplaced stubbornness.is actually probably good for us!

 

Keep us posted, it's interesting to see how this goes and of course I hope it's in your favour!