bcasino - withdrawl rejected - Advice needed

[Charwil33]

Hi all, I'm after a bit if advice and hoping someone may be able to help me, it's a bit of a long story...

 

I joined Bcasino on the 28/2 and deposited £30. My deposit didn't appear to go through so I tried again with a different card, this also appeared to not go through. I checked my card details and logged back on to the site and I had 90 in my account. (60 was my 2 x 30 deposits and 30 was apparently bonus money)

 

I contacted the site via chat as I only wanted to deposit 30 and it seems there was a glich with the site so my balance didn't update, which is why I assumed it hadnt go through. Anyway, I asked them to refund the second £30 Deposit which they did. This left me with 30 bonus and 30 of my own money.

 

I started playing slots using my 30 deposit, as I know thats what gets used first before the bonus money and I went on to win £2030. I had a total of 2060 in my balance, which i knew 30 of that was bonus money i had not used as id won 2030 using my deposit.

 

I contacted the casino via chat before I withdrew to check if this was possible and I was told Yes it was but I would lose the 30 bonus money. So I was happy with that and withdrew 2000 and left 30 in there and as the casino said I lost the 30 bonus.

 

However, today I receive and email that my 2000 withdrawal has been rejected but they have returned the 30 back to my balance. Thisis due to breach of Bonus T&Vs..

 

They have said that because I bet up to 5 a spin that is how I have breached it. They also said that I span 4 times at 7.50 but they would have given me a warning and would have let me have the winnings but as i span multiple times at £5 they won't.

 

They told me that I should have only span up to £5 or 10% of the bonus which should be £3. My argument is that I didn't touch the bonus money to win that amount that is was my money i deposited that won it as thats what gets used first. Their answer was that the balance as a whole is treated as bonus ( so my 30 plus the 30 bonus) so if that is the case and the casino treats it as a whole then the maximum stake allowed should be £5 or 10% of the whole balance of 60 and surely they shouldn't have forfitted the bonus money either.

 

I guess I'm looking for some advice as I would like to put a complaint in as I just feel like the goal posts keep moving to suit and getting contradicting advice. Any thoughts would be gratefully received.

[Afi4wins]

Hello there Charwil and welcome to Askgamblers forum. 

 

I have read your message and sadly enough, I have to say that the casino is right in this case. Your deposit money is always considered as being in your bonus account when a deposit bonus is taken, until the wagering requirement has been completed. Your winnings using your deposit money can be withdrawn at any time, before completing the wagering requirement, so long as you don't breach any of the Bonus Policy terms, which in case refers to the max bet of 5 pounds per spin.

 

As for bonus money, they are usually not withdrawable, except if specifically indicated to be otherwise, and would be removed when a withdrawal claim has been made. These terms are clearly stated in any Bonus Policy.

 

You can try appealing to the casino's finance team for leniency and a reconsideration - this sometimes work, but most times it won't, simply because casinos are more concerned about their money and are very stringent with their terms and policies.

[Charwil33]

Hi Alfi4wins, thank you so much for your reply.

I totally understand what you've said but this is where I think possibly the casino is being wrong as they are saying that they would have overlooked the 4 spins at 7.5. However they are saying that I was only allowed to spin a max of 10% of or £5 whichever was the lesser amount of my bonus balance, which they are saying is £3 a spin as 10% Of the 30 bonus is 3.

 

However in the next breath they have said that my 30 deposit is not seperate to the bonus money and the balance is treated as one. If that's the case 10% of 60 is £6 So me betting £5 a spin wouldn't have breached their terms and as they have told me they would have overlooked the 4 spins at 7.50 and processed my withdrawal.

 

I'm going to try and appeal as I think they are giving me contradicting info, But I don't hold out any hope.

[cocopop3011]

Hi Alfi4wins, thank you so much for your reply.

I totally understand what you've said but this is where I think possibly the casino is being wrong as they are saying that they would have overlooked the 4 spins at 7.5. However they are saying that I was only allowed to spin a max of 10% of or £5 whichever was the lesser amount of my bonus balance, which they are saying is £3 a spin as 10% Of the 30 bonus is 3.

 

However in the next breath they have said that my 30 deposit is not seperate to the bonus money and the balance is treated as one. If that's the case 10% of 60 is £6 So me betting £5 a spin wouldn't have breached their terms and as they have told me they would have overlooked the 4 spins at 7.50 and processed my withdrawal.

 

I'm going to try and appeal as I think they are giving me contradicting info, But I don't hold out any hope.

 

We have had members here that have been lucky and still got their winnings in yur situation and it certainly won't harm to try but I don't hold much hope for you.

 

How many times did you spin at £5 then? Let us know what they say

[Afi4wins]

Hi Alfi4wins, thank you so much for your reply.

I totally understand what you've said but this is where I think possibly the casino is being wrong as they are saying that they would have overlooked the 4 spins at 7.5. However they are saying that I was only allowed to spin a max of 10% of or £5 whichever was the lesser amount of my bonus balance, which they are saying is £3 a spin as 10% Of the 30 bonus is 3.

 

However in the next breath they have said that my 30 deposit is not seperate to the bonus money and the balance is treated as one. If that's the case 10% of 60 is £6 So me betting £5 a spin wouldn't have breached their terms and as they have told me they would have overlooked the 4 spins at 7.50 and processed my withdrawal.

 

I'm going to try and appeal as I think they are giving me contradicting info, But I don't hold out any hope.

 

The rule is that 5 pounds is the max bet that can be used, even if 10% of the bonus money received would be more than 5 pounds. If 10% of the bonus amount contributes to less than 5 pounds, then 5 pounds remains the max bet allowed. However, some casinos do allow higher bets, based on the bonus amount received, so this can be rather confusing indeed!

 

Anyway, best of luck on your appeal...hope they can afford you some leniency. 

[Charwil33]

The rule is that 5 pounds is the max bet that can be used, even if 10% of the bonus money received would be more than 5 pounds. If 10% of the bonus amount contributes to less than 5 pounds, then 5 pounds remains the max bet allowed. However, some casinos do allow higher bets, based on the bonus amount received, so this can be rather confusing indeed!

 

Anyway, best of luck on your appeal...hope they can afford you some leniency. 

That's exactly what I thought toothat the rule is max 5 bet. However they are saying the max bet is either £5 or 10% of your bonus balance which ever is the least amount so i should of only bet a max £3 per spin. Thjs is what i find confusing and contradictory as they base the 10% in your bonus money, which in this case was £30 But for all other matters relating to the balance, e.g wagering requirements they refer To The bonus balance as my 30 plus the bonus, which is I bet 5 a spin as I thought that was the max allowed as 10% Of my 30 plus the 30 bonus would have given me a £6. I don't know if any of that makes sense other than in my head!!

[pinnit2015]

Hello there Charwil and welcome to Askgamblers forum. 

 

I have read your message and sadly enough, I have to say that the casino is right in this case. Your deposit money is always considered as being in your bonus account when a deposit bonus is taken, until the wagering requirement has been completed. Your winnings using your deposit money can be withdrawn at any time, before completing the wagering requirement, so long as you don't breach any of the Bonus Policy terms, which in case refers to the max bet of 5 pounds per spin.

 

As for bonus money, they are usually not withdrawable, except if specifically indicated to be otherwise, and would be removed when a withdrawal claim has been made. These terms are clearly stated in any Bonus Policy.

 

You can try appealing to the casino's finance team for leniency and a reconsideration - this sometimes work, but most times it won't, simply because casinos are more concerned about their money and are very stringent with their terms and policies.

Not strictly true....

 

I take offers from Redbet and others, separate cash and bonus, play DOA and bet 5 plus sometimes when with real cash. Confirmed with them that bonus restrictions only apply when i use the bonus and into bonus offerings (the way it should be surely). Although i've got confirmation that this is OK from the casino, i rarely do it, per the reason cited by the OP. 

 

For me the bonus is active when...errr..your're using it. Not when it's sat there doing nothing. Be interested to see how a court would interpret it - consumer law trumps casino t'c and c's. 

 

Agree that some sites are explicit - some say basically when your're actually using the bonus cash or others use the more ambiguous term 'when a bonus is active' which, with a bonus on the account, is strictly true (however ridiculous it is, as you've not actually played with the bonus money).

 

Their term is   Once you have completed the required wagering conditions, you will be able to request a withdrawal of the real cash funds

 

That term doesn't seem to be commensurate with the new UK bonus rules - applying wagering requirements for a bonus to your real funds (t's and c's last updated Dec-17 so was pre 2018 bonus changes). Or is is saying the you must meet wagering requirements regardless of used the bonus or not?That's how i'm reading it. 

 

New 'rules' came into effect 28th Feb.

 

I actually don't find the t's an c's that clear anyway - no reference to being able to withdraw the real cash whereby you haven't touched the bonus money? Unless I'm missing something

[pinnit2015]

What should be on the UKGC's radar:

 - deal with self exclusion issues

 - make Max Bet Shields mandatory for licences

 - stop players from being able to play restricted games with bonus money (rather then read 2 pages of resticted games which aren't in any order) - or do what Betat do: if you have 100 quid bonus money and go into DOA, you're balance shows as 0 so you can't actually play it!)

-dealing with some predatory t'c and c's. 

 

Lets me honest - the reason not all have max bet protection and allow you to play restricted games is because it's in their interests not to have so. 

[pinnit2015]

Just to show you what i mean with Redbet t'c and c's..it is...Unless it has been stated differently in the specific terms and conditions tailored to each campaign the highest bet allowed when using bonus money, 

 

Key word is using. Not in it, can't use it. 

 

But as Afi said the thing is when is the bonus active...when given it or, per above, when using it?

 

Wish some of this would get taken to a court to see if such terms would be deemed to be unfair or ambiguous. 

 

Not only need luck when spinning but have a lawyer on retainer 

[pinnit2015]

Also, this lovely casino has apparently implemented the old 5k/20k max withdrawals a month and applied it to progressive wins. So if you win a progressive chances are you'll be dead before you receive your winnings. 

 

Avoid. 

[Charwil33]

Thanks so much for all your replies and advice.

I can report that i submitted my complaint to bcasino yesterday and today I recieved a call from them, as well as an email,confirming they will be paying out in full the 2k!! I'm completely gobsmacked as I really didn't think I stood a chance, but so over the moon with the outcome. :-)

[cocopop3011]

Woohoo!! That's really great news, enjoy your winnings and thanks for keeping us updated.