Where to discuss the possibility of rigged tables?

[cocopop3011]

This topic has now been merged with the previous topic.

[kelapa]

This topic has now been merged with the previous topic.

Thank you! 

Maybe it shouldn't be in the "Suggestions & Feedback" forum though?

[kelapa]

These are visual proofs of how electromagnetic fields can regulate and control that metallic ball! 

 

Ask all casinos to use a ceramic or plastic roulette ball instead...and they'd tell you "go to hheelllll" ! 

I'm not even sure what the ball consists of exactly... there's probably a metal core, but the outside looks like fake ivory or something. Hmm.

[cocopop3011]

Thank you! 

Maybe it shouldn't be in the "Suggestions & Feedback" forum though?

 

  Don't even know how it is because I merged it into the other topic! Thanks for spotting it!

[ValDes]

Hello there @kelapa,

 

Have just reviewed your posts and videos and have a simple yet reasonable suggestion for you. 

 

You can find here a list of all regulatory bodies and official authorities which gave Evolution Gaming accreditation and certifications.

 

https://www.evolutiongaming.com/who-we-are/compliance-markets

 

Gather all your proofs and data, pick one or more or all the authorities listed on that page and let them know your findings and suspicions. Let's see what their answer would be and if any of these would even consider your information as sufficient enough to initiate some sort of investigation. 

 

The topic will remain opened, so feel free to keep us updated.  

[Afi4wins]

Our Guru is in a good mood after a good vacation... 

[kelapa]

Hello there @kelapa,

 

Have just reviewed your posts and videos and have a simple yet reasonable suggestion for you. 

 

You can find here a list of all regulatory bodies and official authorities which gave Evolution Gaming accreditation and certifications.

 

https://www.evolutiongaming.com/who-we-are/compliance-markets

 

Gather all your proofs and data, pick one or more or all the authorities listed on that page and let them know your findings and suspicions. Let's see what their answer would be and if any of these would even consider your information as sufficient enough to initiate some sort of investigation. 

 

The topic will remain opened, so feel free to keep us updated.  

Hi there and welcome back from *insert sunny place*.

I've already sent the data to two different agencies, but both of them said that they were not responsible for player issues. I guess I'll run the list until somebody picks up the glove.

[kelapa]

Meanwhile, here 's two successive examples of Evolution's invisible forcefield.

 

[video=youtube;A_nb76GGa7s]

 

Please pay close attention to which numbers are chipped. I always play with neighbouring numbers, making sure that large connected patches of the wheel are covered.

 

SPIN 1:

The ball is about to land right in my winning zone, starting with 3.

But alas, the ball is bounced back by... uhm.. an invisible wall?

 

SPIN 2:

Optimistic as I am, I try for that same winning area again. This time I decide to cover a few more numbers.

Unfortunately, the invisible wall is still right there. And it throws back the ball a little further. Just enough to jump OVER the additional numbers I covered and to make sure that I lose again.

 

This is not a fluke. This happens up to twenty times in a row.

 

Also note the chat. Lots of people calling them scammers and saying the wheel is rigged. Nobody wins anything.

 

And if the invisible shield won't do the job, then Evolution's magic jumping ball will.

 

[video=youtube;o-zKcO6I5Ls]

 

Note how I basically predict every spin correctly, but the ball jumps away from the big wins "all by itself".

 

SPIN 1:

Lands on 18, which means profit for me.

The ball decides to go for a walk, past 22, 9, 31, 14, 20 and 1... until it finds 33 (loss).

 

SPIN 2:

For the next spin, I've estimated that the ball should drop somewhere around the number 9.

The ball indeed lands exactly there.

Then it freaks out completely and scrabbles its way back past a bunch of other winning numbers... until it reaches the 3 (loss).

 

SPIN 3:

The ball again threatens to land on the number 9, which again would mean profit for me.

It actually edges into its neighbour 31 at the last moment, but I guess whoever/whatever controls these jumps wanted to play it safe, so...

From a standing still position, the ball suddenly leaps five spots over to number 33 (loss). Have a look at this one. It's ridiculous. 

 

SPIN 4:

Again, I bet on the same area.

The ball first lands on 12 (profit), then 7 (profit), then 18 (profit), then has to jump over a few BIG PROFIT numbers before it finally reaches the safety of number 16 (total loss).

 

SPIN 5:

Ball misses all the big wins, but seems to at least land on number 24 (tiny, tiny profit)...

NOPE. The ball takes another crazy leap and lands on 27 (total loss). 

 

This was all recorded within the space of a few minutes. It's typical Evolution behaviour.

Again, note the angry people in the chat ("this casino is rigged asf", "scamming people", "rigged", "scammer").

 

If you're too bored to watch the whole video, at least have a look at 1:42

[Afi4wins]

Well Kelapa mate, it looks like NetEnt and Evolution makes a very nice couple!

 

NetEnt games sucks...now Evolution sucks too...and both are only reaping in players money! 

[ValDes]

Ehh, you are losing, but it seems some other are winning at the same time? 

 

https://prnt.sc/hb4nc0

[cocopop3011]

And how can you predict where the ball will land?

 

 

SPIN 2:

For the next spin, I've estimated that the ball should drop somewhere around the number 9.

The ball indeed lands exactly there.

Then it freaks out completely and scrabbles its way back past a bunch of other winning numbers... until it reaches the 3 (loss).

 

 

What makes you think the ball is going to stop around number 9 - how could you make that prediction?

[kelapa]

And how can you predict where the ball will land?

 

 

What makes you think the ball is going to stop around number 9 - how could you make that prediction?

 

Depends on the dealer. Some (!) of them throw more steadily than others, and it's possible to roughly estimate where the ball will land.

I've made plenty of easy money this way in the past, but I guess Evo didn't like it much...

[kelapa]

Ehh, you are losing, but it seems some other are winning at the same time? 

 

https://prnt.sc/hb4nc0

 

So it seems. I'd ask them how they do it, but the users in that little "list of winners" never say a single word, not even when you address them directly.

For what it's worth, many players believe these are fake accounts to keep the punters interested ("wow that guy wins 4000 every round").

[kelapa]

Another theory is that they employ a kind of "Rain Man" insurance.

As in: if they notice that somebody is doing the roulette version of counting cards (basically beating the system), then they specifically set that player's winning chances to zero. Whenever that player tries a spin, the ball will mysteriously land anywhere but on a winning number. It's the online version of physically kicking somebody out of a real-life casino.

[cocopop3011]

Another theory is that they employ a kind of "Rain Man" insurance.

As in: if they notice that somebody is doing the roulette version of counting cards (basically beating the system), then they specifically set that player's winning chances to zero. Whenever that player tries a spin, the ball will mysteriously land anywhere but on a winning number. It's the online version of physically kicking somebody out of a real-life casino.

 

You honestly believe they can target individual players to make sure they don't win? Bearing amount the countless number of players they have on a daily basis?

[kelapa]

You honestly believe they can target individual players to make sure they don't win? Bearing amount the countless number of players they have on a daily basis?

 

I've often counted only about ten active players during some rounds, especially in the late hours. It's a lot easier to get away with than you might think.

 

Then there's the question of "why me?"

My strategy is not about nonsense like lucky numbers or gut feelings, but about pattern recognition. That's always worked very well for me. It's probably as close as anyone can get to genuinely cracking the system. Of course no casino likes it when a player does this, because it means they lose a bit of their edge.

 

You can see in the videos that the ball actually keeps landing on the areas where I had the most money. That shows that there's nothing wrong with my predictive skills. And that's also the reason why Evolution sabotages these wins. It serves to discourage this style of play, preferably until the player gives up and leaves.

 

It's a pity that I didn't want to accept this sooner. I just refused to believe that such a big company would do this. That was pretty naive of me. 

If I had quit right away when I started seeing weird results, I would've come away with a decent profit.

[Afi4wins]

And that, Kelapa my friend, shows how low-level Artificial Intelligence is controlling online games nowadays! 

 

It is NOT rigging...it is simply to make the algorithms damn smarter...but this is still very crude...so we can see and detect those weird movements. Give another year or two, or probably in less time, and all those weird avoiding movements of that metal ball would be so smooth no one would be able to detect them. Just wait and see. 

[cocopop3011]

And that, Kelapa my friend, shows how low-level Artificial Intelligence is controlling online games nowadays! 

 

It is NOT rigging...it is simply to make the algorithms damn smarter...but this is still very crude...so we can see and detect those weird movements. Give another year or two, or probably in less time, and all those weird avoiding movements of that metal ball would be so smooth no one would be able to detect them. Just wait and see.  <_>

 

Afi....I didn't realise you were so naive   

 

 

I've often counted only about ten active players during some rounds, especially in the late hours. It's a lot easier to get away with than you might think.

 

Then there's the question of "why me?"

My strategy is not about nonsense like lucky numbers or gut feelings, but about pattern recognition. That's always worked very well for me. It's probably as close as anyone can get to genuinely cracking the system. Of course no casino likes it when a player does this, because it means they lose a bit of their edge.

 

You can see in the videos that the ball actually keeps landing on the areas where I had the most money. That shows that there's nothing wrong with my predictive skills. And that's also the reason why Evolution sabotages these wins. It serves to discourage this style of play, preferably until the player gives up and leaves.

 

It's a pity that I didn't want to accept this sooner. I just refused to believe that such a big company would do this. That was pretty naive of me. 

If I had quit right away when I started seeing weird results, I would've come away with a decent profit.

 

But this is just when you are playing. What about in peak hours and at the thousands of other different casinos where members are playing? There's no way you could monitor the number of people playing the game?

[Afi4wins]

Afi....I didn't realise you were so naive 

 

Hahaha...I'm not surprised at all my dear! 

 

My statements are almost always 'unbelievable' when it comes to certain topics...simply because no one could believe them. Just as I've said before that aliens do exists for real, the proof is at the Antarctica...and just as I'm saying now that roulette machines are electro-magnetically controlled...not by the ladies, not by the croupiers, but by the in-built program itself!

 

Years from now, the truth will finally emerge...the truth cannot hide for ever... 

[Afi4wins]

But of course, everyone is free with their opinions and thoughts. Some may see me as a 'weirdo', a 'whacko', a 'crazy nut', or whatever...but it is okay with me! My beliefs and my theories are mine, not yours. Believe it...or not! Hahaha. 

[cocopop3011]

But of course, everyone is free with their opinions and thoughts. Some may see me as a 'weirdo', a 'whacko', a 'crazy nut', or whatever...but it is okay with me! My beliefs and my theories are mine, not yours. Believe it...or not! Hahaha. 

 

Absolutely! And wouldn't this world be a boring place if we all believed the same thing. For starters we wouldn't have this interesting topic! (we also wouldn't have it if I kept it locked but that's another story  )

 

Nah on a more serious note though, even though I don't believe Evolution rig their games or have these magnetic fields I've always said I don't know enough about the game to pass any real judgement and I still find it interesting to read other peoples views about it too. And like you said the truth does always come out in the end one way or another. 

[kelapa]

But this is just when you are playing. What about in peak hours and at the thousands of other different casinos where members are playing? There's no way you could monitor the number of people playing the game?

 

The software can easily monitor hundreds of people's bets and instantly calculate which numbers must be avoided at all costs.

It just becomes a little more glaring when there's not as many players online. 

 

Go ahead and give Evolution's roulette a few spins if you don't believe it. It's so unbelievably obvious that it's rigged, but the company is apparently exempt from certain laws (listing their studio as a recording facility instead of a casino, something along those lines). This means they don't get proper inspections and therefore they can get away with it.

Pretty clever.

 

Players will get fed up and leave, but new players will always show up.

Best bet is to clearly mark this company as fraudulent. Let word of mouth take care of them. I will gladly help with that.

[Afi4wins]

I'm wondering if other roulette providers, like Ezugi, are also having the same complaints from players...or it is only with Evolution? 

[ValDes]

The software can easily monitor hundreds of people's bets and instantly calculate which numbers must be avoided at all costs.

It just becomes a little more glaring when there's not as many players online.  <_>

 

Go ahead and give Evolution's roulette a few spins if you don't believe it. It's so unbelievably obvious that it's rigged, but the company is apparently exempt from certain laws (listing their studio as a recording facility instead of a casino, something along those lines). This means they don't get proper inspections and therefore they can get away with it.

Pretty clever.

 

Players will get fed up and leave, but new players will always show up.

Best bet is to clearly mark this company as fraudulent. Let word of mouth take care of them. I will gladly help with that.

 

 

I'm wondering if other roulette providers, like Ezugi, are also having the same complaints from players...or it is only with Evolution? 

 

And I am wondering when we will receive an update on this particular post? 

 

Strongly encourage you to refrain from further speculations, focus on contacting legitimate regulatory bodies and agencies listed within the given link and be so patient to get back the requested  answers. 

 

Thanks. 

[kelapa]

ValDes, on 05 Dec 2017 - 08:59 AM, said:

 

And I am wondering when we will receive an update on this particular post?

 

Strongly encourage you to refrain from further speculations, focus on contacting legitimate regulatory bodies and agencies listed within the given link and be so patient to get back the requested answers.

 

Thanks.

So far, the agencies I've contacted are all denying they have any responsibility for Evolution's results.

That's a rather worrying answer.

 

Still waiting for replies from two other agencies, so let's see if one of those want to pick up the hot potato...

I'm not particularly optimistic, but I'll wait and see.

 

Meanwhile, Evolution have updated their software (new interface, new graphics).

They have also resorted to an old tactic: simply reject all winning bids. If you see the message BET REJECTED appear, rest assured that the ball will land on what would have been a winning number. Other bets that actually get accepted: you will lose each and every one of them.

 

I don't really play with them anymore (for obvious reasons), but the twelve spins I played resulted in this:

 

1: BET ACCEPTED: lost

2: BET ACCEPTED: lost

3: BET ACCEPTED: lost (ball got bumped out of the winning number and into the nearest losing spot)

4: BET ACCEPTED: lost

5: BET ACCEPTED: lost (ball got bumped out of the winning number and into the nearest losing spot)

6: BET REJECTED: winning number

7: BET REJECTED: winning number

8: BET ACCEPTED: lost (ball got bumped out of the winning number and into the nearest losing spot)

9: BET REJECTED: winning number

10: BET REJECTED: winning number

11: BET ACCEPTED: lost (ball got bumped out of the winning number and into the nearest losing spot)

12: BET REJECTED: winning number

 

In itself, a perfectly plausible streak of very bad luck.

In the context of the previously mentioned occurrences, extremely worrisome.

 

One more thing: I have noticed more and more other people reporting this exact kind of trouble with Evolution.

Players are actively ditching them and seeking to play elsewhere. If this keeps on, Evolution should start feeling the consequences soon enough.