[Edited] Netent blackjack - is it fair??

[hyppere]

Am i the only one who thinks that there is something fuzzy about netent bj??

 

The dealer is getting miraculously 21's and so on?

 

I have been playing a lot of blackjack and i know you have to count on losing.. but i mean come on!!

 

I really want to hear other peoples experiences.

[Adebisi213]

I'm assuming you're talking about RNG blackjack? I've played both Microgaming and NetEnt, what I noticed from my own experiences is that the card games are extremely streaky. You could easily win 10 times in a row or just lose continuously seeing the dealer ending up with 21 from any position even when he has a 5 or 6.

 

I wouldn't go as far to call it rigged as I certainly don't have any evidence to support that claim. As I said I had good days as well but more often bad days when I used to play them. However, I never felt comfortable playing computerized blackjack.

 

I would always recommend to just play with real dealers. Some online casinos have NetEnt live tables or through Evolution Gaming for instance, which is a much more realistic reflection of the game and mark my words more fun as well.

[ValDes]

Am i the only one who thinks that there is something fuzzy about netent bj??

 

The dealer is getting miraculously 21's and so on?

 

I have been playing a lot of blackjack and i now you have to count on losing.. but i mean come on!!

 

I really want to hear other peoples experiences.

 

Hello hyppere and welcome to the AskGamblers forum.

 

There is only one instance which could answer your question in a categorical and most important in a true and honest way and that's the relevant licensing authority for the aforementioned gambling software provider. Of course, no one in such authority would even waste time answering you in case you refer your question the way you did it here. Facts, statistics and game logs is what matters eventually, not suspicions, doubts and assumptions. Hope you got my point.

[AnnaCasinoOfficial]

Blackjack is one of the easier games to establish statistics on so I am sure that there have been people out there who have done analysis on the results of the online games. For my part I can say that the stats I have seen from the industry does support that the card games are random and that players win as often online as they do at live casinos. Unfortunately that fact doesn't protect you against cold decks and bad streaks.

[luckyloser]

Ive seen people ask this question allot about cardgames and roulette. Basicly i think what they are doubting is if its a RNG like slots or a virtual deck of cards.

 

Im not sure how many decks they use in a blackjack game. But fore my example lets say 3 decks of cards thats 156 cards. Now do online blackjack operate under these circumstances? Is it picking the outcome from 156 cards? Or is it a slot like RNG with many more outcomes? 

[lovepain]

Netent closed service to PRONETGAMING  since one week, due to my complaints to CEO and CFO.  I tested their system and they failed the sanity and their game is designed to cheat and trick the player. The bet goes high the less likely you will win. It will never pay you money more than what is collected and what percentage can be given. The software is designed this way and now they are trying to disguise it.  It is impossible to lose in such a way, I noticed 100 wins  with 10 cent  but  lost the first 700 euro bet in netent roulette table and repeatedly . This is a cheating software and designed to take out everything from the player.  

 

please e-mail me at [email protected]  and we will all together can sue these guys and can get our money back.  I need at least 100 people ot support me in this case. 

[hyppere]

Ive seen people ask this question allot about cardgames and roulette. Basicly i think what they are doubting is if its a RNG like slots or a virtual deck of cards.

 

Im not sure how many decks they use in a blackjack game. But fore my example lets say 3 decks of cards thats 156 cards. Now do online blackjack operate under these circumstances? Is it picking the outcome from 156 cards? Or is it a slot like RNG with many more outcomes? 

What you are saying is exactly what im wondering about. plus i have noticed when i bet max i am more likely to lose, i have noticed this, i have played a lot!! but i think you got my point.

[hyppere]

I'm assuming you're talking about RNG blackjack? I've played both Microgaming and NetEnt, what I noticed from my own experiences is that the card games are extremely streaky. You could easily win 10 times in a row or just lose continuously seeing the dealer ending up with 21 from any position even when he has a 5 or 6.

 

I wouldn't go as far to call it rigged as I certainly don't have any evidence to support that claim. As I said I had good days as well but more often bad days when I used to play them. However, I never felt comfortable playing computerized blackjack.

 

I would always recommend to just play with real dealers. Some online casinos have NetEnt live tables or through Evolution Gaming for instance, which is a much more realistic reflection of the game and mark my words more fun as well.

I have played for many years, especially blackjack. I have played a lot of net ent's blackjack games, especially vip blackjack, stakes 50-3000 euro.

 

And i have experienced that many times whrn i bet the max, even if i have 20, the dealer gets 21 suspiciously many times.

 

But sometimes when i bet low, everything seems like it should be.. i dont know maybe im just a little paranoid..

[hyppere]

Hello hyppere and welcome to the AskGamblers forum.

 

There is only one instance which could answer your question in a categorical and most important in a true and honest way and that's the relevant licensing authority for the aforementioned gambling software provider. Of course, no one in such authority would even waste time answering you in case you refer your question the way you did it here. Facts, statistics and game logs is what matters eventually, not suspicions, doubts and assumptions. Hope you got my point.

Thank you, good to be here!

 

If there is something fishy going on with the BJ, i dont think we will find proof for it, but i want fairplay, i hope that their games are fair.

[hyppere]

Netent closed service to PRONETGAMING  since one week, due to my complaints to CEO and CFO.  I tested their system and they failed the sanity and their game is designed to cheat and trick the player. The bet goes high the less likely you will win. It will never pay you money more than what is collected and what percentage can be given. The software is designed this way and now they are trying to disguise it.  It is impossible to lose in such a way, I noticed 100 wins  with 10 cent  but  lost the first 700 euro bet in netent roulette table and repeatedly . This is a cheating software and designed to take out everything from the player.  

 

please e-mail me at [email protected]  and we will all together can sue these guys and can get our money back.  I need at least 100 people ot support me in this case. 

Really?? Folks?

[raverbabe]

My experience of NetEnt blackjack is also not very good - I've had the odd good session especially on the five hand version, but for me there are only two types of sessions: 1, I get totally cained very very quickly and have my balance emptied to zero in record time, or 2, my balance just hovers around the same place for hours on end but if I do get in front briefly, it just gets eaten back up again straight away and it stays like that for hours on end. So yes, I do find it a bit fishy, but its most likely just the usual result of the continuous deck in play... somehow Microgaming Blackjack doesn't seem anywhere near as bad though and that supposedly works the same, so whats that all about?

 

I hate the way there is a huge delay every time the dealer busts in all of there versions too!

[hyppere]

My experience of NetEnt blackjack is also not very good - I've had the odd good session especially on the five hand version, but for me there are only two types of sessions: 1, I get totally cained very very quickly and have my balance emptied to zero in record time, or 2, my balance just hovers around the same place for hours on end but if I do get in front briefly, it just gets eaten back up again straight away and it stays like that for hours on end. So yes, I do find it a bit fishy, but its most likely just the usual result of the continuous deck in play... somehow Microgaming Blackjack doesn't seem anywhere near as bad though and that supposedly works the same, so whats that all about?

 

I hate the way there is a huge delay every time the dealer bustes in all of there versions too!

I havent played enough blackjack from microgaming to make a statement, maybe i will try it in the future.. lol i know, i hate the delays 

[AnnaCasinoOfficial]

Guys, if online blackjack was truly rigged and fraudulent it would be all over the news. Slots we have discussed in another post and slots are obviously more difficult to analyze since there are millions of outcomes (combinations). In blackjack the number of combinations are much much lower and it would be incredibly easy to try and prove that they are not distributing cards the way they should if that was the case. And trust me, these kind of tets are done almost on a daily level by players, licensing authorities and affiliates. The reason why you don't here about them? There is nothing sensational to report.

[hyppere]

Guys, if online blackjack was truly rigged and fraudulent it would be all over the news. Slots we have discussed in another post and slots are obviously more difficult to analyze since there are millions of outcomes (combinations). In blackjack the number of combinations are much much lower and it would be incredibly easy to try and prove that they are not distributing cards the way they should if that was the case. And trust me, these kind of tets are done almost on a daily level by players, licensing authorities and affiliates. The reason why you don't here about them? There is nothing sensational to report.

You are one of these casinos that offers these games, how can i trust What youre saying is 100% correct?? everything can be tampered.. And im not saying that it is, but im very suspicious about it, i have been playing it for years, with high and low stakes.. i have my doubts, And there are many other people claiming that the table games are unfair.

[AnnaCasinoOfficial]

You are one of these casinos that offers these games, how can i trust What youre saying is 100% correct?? everything can be tampered.. And im not saying that it is, but im very suspicious about it, i have been playing it for years, with high and low stakes.. i have my doubts, And there are many other people claiming that the table games are unfair.

 

I am not asking you to trust me. I can completely understand your sceptism. What I am saying is that Blackjack is a very simple game to analyze. It won't take more than maybe 5.000 hands to get sort of a statistical trend going and many people have conducted this analysis over the time in forums etc. There are also people that use the logs to analyze their stats and the forum posts I have seen, where a prober analyis has been conducted, with a large sample of played hands, has concluded that the game is fair and the the results over the sample was close enough to the "real equilibrium" for the analyzis to not conclude that the game is skewed in the casino's favour.

 

If people are interested you can also conduct your own anlysis. Play the lowest bet per hand and note down:

 

1) The amount of wins / loses /push

2) The first card out of the shoe for the player and the dealer

 

If you play a lot of hands I am confident that the results will be within what can statistically be expected.

 

As mentioned before, Blackjack is a fairly easy game to analyze and if the game was rigged in the casino's favour you would have heard about it. A lot. And with good evidence to support the claims made.

[Adebisi213]

I think I can relate to both point of views from a player perspective and the operator's perspective. I personally don't like playing the RNG version of table games too much because they don't play like the real game in Brick & Mortar casinos.

 

Maybe because it's a bit fast paced and streaky, and there are way more cards dealt in an hour time compared to live play? However, I never really could shake of feeling a bit "robbed" after a session of RNG blackjack. I also never felt comfortable with premium hands of 19-20 vs 5-6 of the dealer, while doubling up with 10-11 vs. 5-6 wasn't a done deal either. I'm sure the RTP will make sense after millions of hands and definitely wouldn't call it rigged, but personally I think the software providers should have done a better job in creating more realistic table games.

 

As for the OP, it's plain simple; if you believe the game is rigged, then don't play the game! I wouldn't bother spending countless amounts of money in order to prove a statistic inconsistency. Not worth it! Go with with live blackjack which is much more fun, slower, and interactive. You'll feel much more relaxed and confident.

[AnnaCasinoOfficial]

Adebisi, your observation about the pace is absolutely correct. When I used to work in the poker industry it was common that people would say: "Things must be rigged because I don't see this weird things happening offline". 

 

But the truth is that these players play maybe 20-30 times more hands online than they do live. Hence, the odds of the "weird things" (two players with 4 of a kind or something like that) happening for them online is much greater. Couple this with the fact that gamblers (and anyone else really) have very selective memories and you have a strong basis for explaning why players think like that. We obviously all play expecting and hoping to win. That is really the case with most recreational gamblers. They are optimists, because why gamble, if you really expect to lose?

 

So when they are running good they get what they expect and all is good and not really "noticed to a high degree". But when they are running bad every single hand is computed and they feel like they must lose 75% of all hands which must be because the game is fixed. They don't really recall that they were running super good earlier in the session and they have actually only lost 55-60% of hands when the session ends which is most more likely in terms of the real odds.

 

But I understand your point. Some people like gambling online because it is private, at your own pace, you can sit in your couch in your underwear if you prefer and you don't have to deal with other players that might get angry at you and the dealer etc.. On the other side, some people like playing offline because it is social, the game is slower (you get more playing time for your buck when you are unlucky), you might get some free drinks from the casino etc..

 

It is really a matter of preferences. But I will go out on a limb and claim that the game is completely the same. If you have casinos with the same rules as offline of course. In Denmark where I live, the casinos are really greedy and have terrible blackjack rules. You can only double on 9-A, no surrender options, max 2 splits etc.. On top of that they straight uå hassle youf for tips on a blackjack because it is a major part of their salary. For DK players the online option is definitely best.

 

Kind regards,

Mike

[FAZIII1]

Net Ent / Microgaming / Playtech and all other table SOFTWARE games have some set up RTP% Return to Player - example 95% So if system dont allowed you win over some amount. If in some moment system need " eat" you cant win to much.

 

This is not same game like live playing table with live dealer or in live casino.

 

In software program table games you can got 20 x in row red in rullete or 25 x in row black in rulete . Or in Blackjack lose with 20 in hand very often.

 

 

This software games work close like slots games have some RTP% and if system need eat money then you always lose. Dosent metter you chose red or black in rulette.

 

 

If somone like play table games im recomendded play with live casino or casino with live dealer with cams. Not in Software table games sections.

[pietw]

My experience is very good with netent software. I won 400.000 euro on the vip baccarat 2 years ago. So it's not rigged. Also i know someone who recently won 200.000 and 50.000 on the blackjack table(software). Probably playtech is rigged, it seems like if you won too much, you trigger a system so you can't win anymore and will get a very bad losing streak. So if i have to choose to play would take netent.

[AnnaCasinoOfficial]

Net Ent / Microgaming / Playtech and all other table SOFTWARE games have some set up RTP% Return to Player - example 95% So if system dont allowed you win over some amount. If in some moment system need " eat" you cant win to much.

 

This is not same game like live playing table with live dealer or in live casino.

 

In software program table games you can got 20 x in row red in rullete or 25 x in row black in rulete . Or in Blackjack lose with 20 in hand very often.

 

 

This software games work close like slots games have some RTP% and if system need eat money then you always lose. Dosent metter you chose red or black in rulette.

 

 

If somone like play table games im recomendded play with live casino or casino with live dealer with cams. Not in Software table games sections.

 

I can very clearly from personal experience tell you, that this is not the case. If I run trough the playing history of our blackjack players with many many hands in their stats it looks something like this:

 

- A small group of big winner

- A large group of small winners

- A large group of roughly even steven players

- A very large group of players with somewhat "expected loses" (roughly the RTP% being where it is supposed to be)

- A small group of players with very bad luck and very low returns

 

It is pretty much exactly like you would expect from a random game. The groups that lose are slightly larger than the groups that win (obviously because the game has a slight edge to the casino).

 

So overall, for all players, the RTP% is where it should be. But for the individual player you see both players that has been unlucky and players that have been lucky. As you would. And that is the reason why people gamble. To take a chance of being in the lucky player pool.

 

Again, if the distribution wasn't fair in a game like Black Jack, which is very easy to analyze, you would see tons of well documented articles about it. But really, all the serious and very high volume analysis I have seen support that the online games work exactly as the live casino games.

 

It is a little odd that players always seem to think that the RTP% is different from online casinos to live casinos. They are not. The game rules are set up with a slight advantage to the casino and that create profts. There is really no need for anything else and if it was set up different the online casinos would lose their gaming license in less than a month (these things are tested) and the Internet would be filled with detailed analysis with solid proof of cheating.

 

My experience is very good with netent software. I won 400.000 euro on the vip baccarat 2 years ago. So it's not rigged. Also i know someone who recently won 200.000 and 50.000 on the blackjack table(software). Probably playtech is rigged, it seems like if you won too much, you trigger a system so you can't win anymore and will get a very bad losing streak. So if i have to choose to play would take netent.

 

I have never worked with PlayTech before and I don't work with them now but I feel confident in claiming that PlayTech's black jack games work in exactly the same way as other software providers'.

[raverbabe]

Guys, if online blackjack was truly rigged and fraudulent it would be all over the news. Slots we have discussed in another post and slots are obviously more difficult to analyze since there are millions of outcomes (combinations). In blackjack the number of combinations are much much lower and it would be incredibly easy to try and prove that they are not distributing cards the way they should if that was the case. And trust me, these kind of tets are done almost on a daily level by players, licensing authorities and affiliates. The reason why you don't here about them? There is nothing sensational to report.

I totally agree with you and don't wear a tin foil hat, but I do suspect that the minute differences between the different versions will account for the difference between Netnt games and othe providers eg Microgaming. I could get somebody to run a 1m hand test on each if people would find that data interesting?

[AnnaCasinoOfficial]

I totally agree with you and don't wear a tin foil hat, but I do suspect that the minute differences between the different versions will account for the difference between Netnt games and othe providers eg Microgaming. I could get somebody to run a 1m hand test on each if people would find that data interesting?

 

I think a lot of people in this forum would find that interesting. It has been done quite a few times but it is obviously more credible if it is being done by someone trusted from the forum.

 

Kind regards,

Mike

[NetEntSucks]

Mike!

 

You are absolutely way off with your statistics, and especially about NetEnT!

....

Edited January 4, 2017 by ValDes
Edited by Forum Administrator!

[ValDes]

Mike!

 

You are absolutely way off with your statistics, and especially about NetEnT!

....

 

Throwing such serious accusations against the most reputable, trustworthy and fair gaming provider like NetEnt is not just absolutely ridiculous, it's stupid to say the least. Especially when none of your absurd statements have been backed up by a serious argumentation or proof. That alone represents a serious violation of the AskGamblers Forum Rules.  

 

Moreover, your account nickname is offensive, which is also a violation of the aforementioned rules. 

 

As a s result we took the decision to ban your account and wish you good luck with spamming somewhere else. 

[marathon]

it's an old thread, but unfortunately I have to agree to the notion that these games are rigged compared to live games. Why such conclusion?

I agree that bad / good luck happens. But it's more then that.

 

First: There is no such thing as true random number. This simply doesn't exist in IT! A random number must be programmed. Therefore an alogorithm is in place to produce a random number.

Second: It would have been uncovered already. By whom and how? Even VW was able to hide their cheating software for a very long time.

Third: The amount of suprise 21, 20 and BJ from the dealer compared to the players hand is uncanny. Shouldn't the player get approx as many BJ as the dealer?

Fourth: Impossible to counterprove. No chance. Only by inspecting the source code such a thing could be proven. Roulette should have one line: Take number between 0 to 36. That's it. BJ similar. Everything else is video, audio etc. I doubt the source code is as simple as it should be.

 

just my 2 cents. And of course I agree not to play such games when the option is available with live casinos.