Random Number Generators = RNG

[billyboy]

They're (RNG'S) supposedly control the Bread and Butter of Casinos and the rate they are set to payback/payout to customers can make or break a casino.

It's supposedly the gadget that decides if you win or lose at the slots. I've seen the old mantra that all spins have an equal chance of winning. It do not matter if you just won a jackpot on your last spin, you supposedly could hit another one on your next spin.

So I have a few questions as I'm sure multitudes of other slot players have.

1. Is there more than one random number generator (RNG) for each slot game (I have heard there can be up to three RNG per slot game, and the games switch on/off between the RNG's.

2. Is there one that's a take up mode RNG, another that is payback/payout and another with middle of the road wins, AND, can the switching be controlled/manipulated?

I have a another question too. Why is it that every casino I have joined at first I win a little, and then later on after a few deposits I cannot win diddly squat? RNG...???

More ???? to follow...

cheer,
b.b

[ValDes]

I doubt there's anyone, who can answer your question with at least 50% authenticity, unless he/she is/was a software engineer in some of the companies, dealing with gambling software! No matter what you will hear/read/listen, if it doesn't come out from the right place with the right people(software engineers and the top casino management), than it must be considered as a pure speculation.

[billyboy]

Hi ValDes,

 

Ahhh, speculation you say. So there's the rub.

 

Can you think of any other game where you're not allowed to know the details of how you can win or lose? At least in a card game a person knows what's in the deck, unless of coarse it's not a full deck cards.

 

Can you imagine someone saying come play my game, but I'm not going to tell you how it works, just put your money down and take a chance. Even in the old shell game you know there's a peanut under one of the three shells, at least in the honest shells game anyhow.

[ValDes]

I think you miss something of great importance at this case, billy! And it is called "regulation and certification". Those two words contains so much inside and everything is connected exactly with what you are asking for, my friend. I would advice you to read carefully one of my guides - Casino licensing, regulation and certification – are they really so important?, which will clear the fog about how a casino is actually working with those RNGs!

[billyboy]

Hi ValDes.

 

Thanks for the link to your guide, it's a great primer for online gamblers. I would say it's essential reading regarding casino integrity.

 

You said in your guide: “in this business reputation is everything and this led to exclusion from the market of many companies, in whose impartiality exist even small doubts!”

 

Now onto my loser's whine.

 

Oh sure, after first opening a new account and after deposit I would always win a little over my original first deposit. Then afterward and with any further deposits I could never win over that deposit and I would always quickly go broke.

 

I was googling around the web about RNG's and happen to come across many, many slot and ex-slot player's stories and complaints about online slot play and payback. Their stories all sound much like mine that I know that I'm not the only a continuous looser that has suspicions about the control of when'how the RNG paysback.

 

I don't know if I'm allowed to paste on here a few quotes from one of those other losers. If not, I'll remove it. But dang, this story in many ways sounds so much like mine.

 

I've got about five hundred credits worth left in me e-wallet and I think I'm going to go online shopping with that. A safer bet!

 

Now for excerpts from another loser's story:

 

P.S. I just read another loser's story in your thread here: http://www.askgamblers.com/forum/topic/2047-fair-and-random-play-warning/

 

Jack wrote on 10/21/2012

 

" To people commenting that its not rigged you have got to be kidding me. ... All I know is from my experience something is not right. ... All I can see ia tiny wins that try to fulfill your RTP so the casino can drain your money whilst saying that your RTP is in line with the expected payouts. So in essence it like being stuck at the same balance then eventually you'll get a a stream of dry spins that suck up your balance faster than you can say WTF. Additionally free spins are so hard to obtain. I've spun over 500 spins on some slots without ever getting a free spin round. In that period the standard game never paid anything over 20x bet. So yep, that's $100 gone at minimum bet with absolute peanut's chance of winning. Repeat this same ***** for 40 deposits and then its plain highway robbery. I don't how can anyone say you've just had a bad luck. Come on I aint asking for a million dollar jackpot let alone $10000 big win. Not even a few hundred. Just want a decent win once in a while that validates that old phrase "you win some you lose some", however I'm guaranteeing theres only a tiny fraction of winners which the casino will promote in order to portray an winning image of their casino and software. But what people dont realise is that these same people probably lost 10x the amount that they won, not counting all the other losers who don't win a bloody dime. Just check out the profits of these casinos. Yes we know casinos ain't built on winners, however if these machines or software are truly random why cannot I experience a period of winning or even one simple win. I'm sure its just variance at play, however I'm just stuck on the bad side. How typical. And for all the casino shills here something for you, is variance playing at 10 different casinos with 10 deposits on 10 different games and not being able to win anything more than a 15x bet over 300 spins? If that's variance then these slots and casinos can piss right off. I've had enough of losing, I suggest anyone who doesn't want to feel the frustration and absolute mental devastation to never play at this all other online casinos, especially Microgaming based casinos until they have been officially regulated in your country, because until you'd only be left with an empty bank account and knee deep in debt. "

[ValDes]

As I've already told you once, I totally disagree with that kind of statements, regarding RNGs, is it rigged or no,etc!

If you were right, then how to explain the fact that so many people are winning at all these online casinos, and some of them are winning big!

The only problem here, and therefore is important to mention, is that all online casinos continue to maintain the blackout about how exactly is generated the outcome of each and every spin in the particular gambling software! Of course, there's a simple explanation of that fact too - they will say, we cannot tell you that, cause if you no it then everybody is going to win. And no matter we know that's not right at all, I am not a huge optimist, that the fog around this matter will clear soon.

 

However, what I'm absolutely convinced in, is that top gambling software are not rigged in any way! I could easily bet whatever you want on that, mate!

[billyboy]

Hey ValDes,

 

I got the answer now. I have it figured out!!! I'm going to start a new thread about it soon. Stay tuned.

[billyboy]

Oh yes, one more question before I move on to the new thread.

 

We all know the RNG is the critter that allows the slot to take in $$ and payout $$, anybody ever hear of the "R.N.G. LOCK" ?

[Black Diamond]

There are some casinos which are proven to have unfair games, but most of them offer genuine payouts. For slots especially, the house edge is plenty to keep business afloat. There's really no reason for a casino to rig the system unless it doesn't have enough cash reserves for those rare lucky streaks and big jackpot hits.

[billyboy]

Well, I'm back again.

 

I definitly have to agree with Jack in some of his opinions about online slot gambling. I thought I'd give it one more try and deposited another 100 credits (accredited casino). Man oh man did that ever go fast too. For evey 20 to 25 spins I would get the odd small win. Never once got a bonus round or a free spin game. The meager small wins, always the same combination, over and over, like the RNG is locked.

 

So I though I would play the same game, same denomination and lines in the play for fun mode. Wowee, what a differnce, free spins, bonus rounds galore. Man I couldn't do no wrong.

 

I have done my fair share of gambling at slots in land based casinos, won some, lost some, but never the losses like I have sustained at the online casinos.

 

At the land based casinos I would hit the odd slot that was on a bit of a pay streek. Of all the many, many slots I have tried online, not once have I ever hit one of those small pay streeks.

 

My adice to slot players, as Jack said, "... until they (casinos) have been officially regulated in your country..." , if you have a choice play at the land based casinos if you can, period.

[billyboy]

Hi, Black Diamond,

 

I think you're probably right about the payouts. In the near future I'm going to be posting an opinion about that too. It's quite the ambiguous term.

[billyboy]

I want to add that it has not always been strait to the bottom for me at slots, there are times when I can spin, and spin, and spin for what seems like a good hour or so. Win after spin, after win after spin, all peanuts though. Never really going up or down, just staying about even. Then it dries up and I go strait to the bottom like a lead weight.

[ValDes]

Billy, I really think you should quit online gambling, mate!

 

I made everything possible to explain you that the top gambling platforms could not, do not and will not afford to rig their RNG in any way! Other members here also tried to tell you exactly the same, but it looks like you want to believe in some conspiracy theories, my friend!

 

Ahm, just one little question, if you allow me. Have you tried to look for some reliable information, regarding the whole process of evaluating and certifying a gambling RNG? Take a look at this website - http://www.gaminglabs.com/, you can even ask them everything about the RNG!

[billyboy]

Hi ValDes, I have done taken your suggestion, after the losing I've sustained at accredited casinos I've quit online gambling. I still play the free ones for fun though.

 

P.s. You seem like a great person. I've got a gold mine if you're interested in partnering up.

 

Cheers from your pal,

 

b.b.

[Luciana]

billyboy, what are you up to?

[billyboy]

Hi Luciana,

 

Right now I'm working on my annual mine reports, and whilst I'm doing that I'm trying to win a free slots tourney.

 

If I can win one of those I might be convinced that I've got a better chance of winning a real money slot game than a snowball has a chance in .... well, you know where.

 

What you up to.

[Luciana]

Hmm, I see that many of you want free tournaments! I'll add it to my proposals for casinos I'm corresponding with

[billyboy]

Hi Luciana, I know you're probably busy, but ....

 

any update on that exclusive free roll tournament for me , at some decent casino ?

 

So far I'm still batting zero at the ones I'm playing at.

 

Cheers,

 

b.b.

 

P.s. Doing some reading on your site. Thanks to you and ValDel for a great gambling info web-site. Nice to also see a place where people can bring their issues to and find help from you to get results.

[ValDes]

Well, thanks for appreciating our efforts so high, billy!

 

Although I have some disagreements with you regarding RNGs, you're most welcome here!

[Ala_B]

It took me a lot to read that funny topic from the start down to the end but at the and I'm at least sure about one thing. ValDes, remind me never to argue with you, espeially on gambling matters!

[ValDes]

It took me a lot to read that funny topic from the start down to the end but at the and I'm at least sure about one thing. ValDes, remind me never to argue with you, espeially on gambling matters!

 

Hi Blue! Where have you been for so long? We missed you here...

 

As for the disputes, please, do not deprive me of the small pleasures in life!

[billyboy]

The new computer slot games (internet computer games) are fun games and such.

 

But!

 

I'll bet my money in the good old mechanical slots.

 

There were no slot computer programers secrets that only a chosen few are allowed to know and, you knew what your odds are/were (in the ones that hadn't been rigged.)

 

These new computer games with their RNG's and controlled seeds values make for a lot of loosers.

[markransome]

Well, I am into computing a little bit and the reason I don't play the likes of online slots and roulette is simple, if I owned the casino and was in charge of the software, wouldn't you rig it in your favour? As for Random Number Generators, a computer cannot make random selections, this is saying that the computer at the heart of it all has a mind of its own! It has to follow an algorithm, but who is in charge of the algorithms? You can make the algorithms as mathematically complicated as you want, but they will never be truly random, they will follow a complex set of rules to determine what you and I perceive to be random.

[markransome]

Sorry, have to expand a little on this, the actual term is "Pseudorandom number generators". Look up the word "Pseudo". It means false or fraudulent! How about that then?

[Luciana]

What made you think so, mark?