The State of Slots in General

[RazorX]

Hello all , 

 

Been meaning to get around to this topic for some time well here it goes I've been in the game for a while now and I've seen

casino's come and go , groups rise and fall , and played on many many casino's I'm a slot player pure and simple and I've kept my

eye on all the new software and I gotta tell ya I'm not impressed . 

 

There have been so many updates to slots in particular Microgaming and Net Ent and I'm wondering who asked for those updates ? 

the games were fine as they were they didn't need to be altered I'm starting to see a lot of High Volatility Slots Appearing and this goes for 

almost every software company not just the aforementioned : High Volatility to Ultra High Volatility that seems really nice lots of bells and

whistles and have a lot of "Potential" that's a word I hear that keeps getting used ....I tell you they pay sweet bugger all their next to impossible 

to get even the slightest win out of and I've been out and about testing a whole heap of them .

 

I'm not going to mention names of casinos or slots but man o man the industry has certainly changed a lot in my time of cruising through 

the "Wild West" there's bad RTP's and then there's just outright nonsense I often wonder if things are even being monitored anymore 

This topic has probably been done to death but I just wanted to add my contribution to it things are not going so good out there and maybe 

someone needs to start "monitoring" things a bit better possibly . 

 

Its one thing having to deal with all the changes that are happening with games that "we" didn't ask for but having to deal with crazy RTP's which 

beg the question of validity is another thing : I don't mind playing a High Vol if the conditions are fair but I strongly suspect based on the amount 

of feedback and my own experience that there are a few operations out there that aren't playing by the rules of their License holders and I've heard 

it all about how things can't be rigged how its impossible let me tell you something its only human made a third party program can intercept things 

between Point A and Point B to assume there isn't corruption in the industry isn't logical . 

 

Think of this as a "Heads up" to players , authorities , and operators . 

[Afi4wins]

I'm with you on this one RazorX mate!

I too have been saying lots of times here in this forum on how slots have changed from their old flash versions, into the HTML5 versions, and now, into AI-controlled versions!

Proof? Take my few favourite games from Playtech as a good example. I have been playing these same few games even BEFORE the internet was born! Have done millions of spins on each of them, and I have experienced all the variances of how each game would and could play. This year, in 2020, the same games are showing even more variances in their gameplay, so much so that getting wins of over 500x is becoming so rare! The feature games (free spins) are taking more than double the amount of spins required, but more importantly, are paying in SMALLER WINS!!! 

I have reached a point now that I am slowly but surely decreasing my plays on my few favourite games, intending to quit playing them very soon. They are simply not worth playing any more! The RTPs have not changed...they are still having the same RTPs as before, but they certainly are giving out many more dead spins and decreasing the regularities of their feature games!

My favourite Supe It Up and Isis game (Microgaming) too have just been updated and no longer have selective playlines as before...both now have fixed 25 playlines....and with that, I now have lost interest in playing them.

I'm still playing my few Playtech games simply because I can still choose the number of playlines. When this disappears, if and when it does, then I would quit playing them as well!

I don't really know when I would stop completely playing my few favourite games, but the COUNTDOWN has already started!

[kayenne23]

Yesterday i played a new game by red tiger called DRAGON'S LUCK DELUXE.  Just because it was new, there was a promo going on on this game. If you manage to win 10 euro you get 10 free spins with 0.20 bet each. I deposit just 10 euros. PLayed the game with 0.10 cents. (i have the bet history!) From 100 minimum spins i won 0.40 cents. So 10 euros gone with one of of 0.40 cents. 

[kayenne23]

The updates are done for the reason of not having old slots oudated. Beyond that reason, there are many other factors that led to these updates. One of them is to pre fix the lines.  Now you get slots with  a 20000x win and even 200.000x win. I did not see players win a thing on slots with such a high max cap win.  On the other hand i won like 15-20 times on slots like dead or alive (the old one) dead or alive 2 (just 3 times) On jack and the beanstalk 3 times. On a new netent slot with the same concept called helloween jack ZERO times. And the list goes and goes. 

[Afi4wins]

59 minutes ago, kayenne23 said:

The updates are done for the reason of not having old slots oudated. Beyond that reason, there are many other factors that led to these updates. One of them is to pre fix the lines.  Now you get slots with  a 20000x win and even 200.000x win. I did not see players win a thing on slots with such a high max cap win.  On the other hand i won like 15-20 times on slots like Dead or Alive (the old one) dead or alive 2 (just 3 times) On Jack and the Beanstalk 3 times. On a new NetEnt slot with the same concept called helloween jack ZERO times. And the list goes and goes. 

Just goes to show that the best games to play nowadays are STILL THE OLDIE GAMES! Simply because they have very good to excellent paytables which cannot be changed, although the wins are being controlled and manipulated by new programs.

[ValDes]

Well, depends on the perspective I guess...

For example, if you look at the so called 'streamers', its all mega awesome actually and slots are paying all time high! 

In the same time (and obviously in another gambling universe), more and more of the common online punters I know for years (some for decades) are complaining from not being able to recognize their favorite slots anymore and/or facing next to impossible chances to win on any of the newly released slots from their favorite gambling vendors.  

They say that usually you'll find the trust somewhere in the middle but to be completely honest, I'm not so sure most of the major players on the slots market are now able to make reasonable compromises or finding the right balance between their desire for bigger profits or providing best possible gambling experience (which features some player wins from time to time btw )... 

Time will tell of course but not surprised to see so many of my friends switching from slotting to sports betting recently... 

[kayenne23]

4 hours ago, ValDes said:

Well, depends on the perspective I guess...

For example, if you look at the so called 'streamers', its all mega awesome actually and slots are paying all time high! 

In the same time (and obviously in another gambling universe), more and more of the common online punters I know for years (some for decades) are complaining from not being able to recognize their favorite slots anymore and/or facing next to impossible chances to win on any of the newly released slots from their favorite gambling vendors.  

They say that usually you'll find the trust somewhere in the middle but to be completely honest, I'm not so sure most of the major players on the slots market are now able to make reasonable compromises or finding the right balance between their desire for bigger profits or providing best possible gambling experience (which features some player wins from time to time btw )... 

Time will tell of course but not surprised to see so many of my friends switching from slotting to sports betting recently... 

Its indeed correct. Many players decide to change slots to sports betting just because of the constant loss. Also sports betting gives the players the option to cashout etc. When it comes to so called streamers (affiliates) they just show wins, big wins, mega wins, even life changin wins, but uou still see them in the same bedroom, same things, like wins didnt change a thing. Anyway, there are a lot of people that sit down and watch 4-5 hours of streaming(a guy playing the slots with 5-10 euro bet, spending 5k per week as the minimum) and unfortunately this is how gambling is displayed now via streamers. FUN AND MEGA WINS! But! gambling is indeed way way different than what its portrayed to be.

[Afi4wins]

1 hour ago, kayenne23 said:

Its indeed correct. Many players decide to change slots to sports betting just because of the constant loss. Also sports betting gives the players the option to cashout etc. When it comes to so called streamers (affiliates) they just show wins, big wins, mega wins, even life changin wins, but uou still see them in the same bedroom, same things, like wins didnt change a thing. Anyway, there are a lot of people that sit down and watch 4-5 hours of streaming(a guy playing the slots with 5-10 euro bet, spending 5k per week as the minimum) and unfortunately this is how gambling is displayed now via streamers. FUN AND MEGA WINS! But! gambling is indeed way way different than what its portrayed to be.

To add salt to the wound, streamers are actually doing a huge favour for the casino that they are playing at. Players may think it's a good casino to play at, but not knowing that those streamers do not play on the same ground as normal players...streamers have an unfair advantage, in one way or another! They make everyone think that such huge wins are indeed possible, but when playing with real money, it'd only go the opposite way!

I really hate watching those streamers, especially how they are disillusioning other players! 

[kayenne23]

2 hours ago, Afi4wins said:

To add salt to the wound, streamers are actually doing a huge favour for the casino that they are playing at. Players may think it's a good casino to play at, but not knowing that those streamers do not play on the same ground as normal players...streamers have an unfair advantage, in one way or another! They make everyone think that such huge wins are indeed possible, but when playing with real money, it'd only go the opposite way!

I really hate watching those streamers, especially how they are disillusioning other players! 

Indeed this unfair advantage can be translated into more deposit bonuses, no deposit bonuses with higher max cap win etc. I just believe it's unfair to call them slot "steamers".  They are plain sight affiliates. 

[ValDes]

14 hours ago, kayenne23 said:

Indeed this unfair advantage can be translated into more deposit bonuses, no deposit bonuses with higher max cap win etc. I just believe it's unfair to call them slot "steamers".  They are plain sight affiliates. 

Now that's exactly as they must start to call themselves - Affiliate Streamers and not just streamers.

[RazorX]

On 11/19/2020 at 6:58 PM, Afi4wins said:

I'm with you on this one RazorX mate!

I too have been saying lots of times here in this forum on how slots have changed from their old flash versions, into the HTML5 versions, and now, into AI-controlled versions!

AI ......umm say no more brother if that's the case I'm going have a serious think about slots think the day may have come. 

[Afi4wins]

These last few days I've been giving my fav Playtech games some spins...and they all suck like hhell! I think I'm up to 90% to quitting by now!

[cocopop3011]

17 minutes ago, Afi4wins said:

These last few days I've been giving my fav Playtech games some spins...and they all suck like hhell! I think I'm up to 90% to quitting by now!

What I'd give to spend a few hours with slots in the old days! 

[Afi4wins]

4 hours ago, cocopop3011 said:

What I'd give to spend a few hours with slots in the old days! 

Yesterday, I played Supe It Up in the fun mode...now with 25 fixed lines, no more autoplay/autospins function, so it was one slow spin at a time...and I almost got bored a few minutes into my former number 1 favourite game!!! Can you imagine that? All games are simply becoming so BORING!!! 

[RazorX]

15 hours ago, cocopop3011 said:

What I'd give to spend a few hours with slots in the old days! 

Lets put it this way if they opened up a Casino called "Old School Slots Casino" had slots like in the old days and 

 were certified to not have A.I controlled programs I'd be the first through the door cocopop3011 . 

Also I consider the introduction of allowing Artificial Intelligence into the gambling world to be a serious Wild Card 

programmed by whom and for what purpose first comes to mind seriously I'm even looking at my local pub strange right 

now.  And then again the A.I would also be inferior unless it could self evolve marely an abstract reflection of its creator 

flawed and chipped ....unrefined . 

 

We organics are more highly advanced though allowing an advanced thinking brain into the mix does raise the question as 

to the nature of its programming is it trained to win for the casino like a pet monkey stealing coins or is like a big friendly 

santa claus handing out big wins but keeping the house take within acceptable levels .... who knows  ? . 

[Afi4wins]

5 hours ago, RazorX said:

Lets put it this way if they opened up a Casino called "Old School slots Casino" had slots like in the old days and 

 were certified to not have A.I controlled programs I'd be the first through the door cocopop3011 . 

Also I consider the introduction of allowing Artificial Intelligence into the gambling world to be a serious Wild Card 

programmed by whom and for what purpose first comes to mind seriously I'm even looking at my local pub strange right 

now.  And then again the A.I would also be inferior unless it could self evolve marely an abstract reflection of its creator 

flawed and chipped ....unrefined . 

 

We organics are more highly advanced though allowing an advanced thinking brain into the mix does raise the question as 

to the nature of its programming is it trained to win for the casino like a pet monkey stealing coins or is like a big friendly 

santa claus handing out big wins but keeping the house take within acceptable levels .... who knows  ? . 

Any casino or provider who reverts their games back to the good old days ways would definitely have me in too!

Would that ever be possible? Most probably not! There are way too many indifferent/uncaring/ignorant/impulsive players with lots of money in hand, all too willing to gamble away their money irresponsibly, mostly incorrigible to turn back to the right path, and all too willing in following the piped-piper (streamers)! 

[Blackjax]

But lets not forget that the old school games/slots were mechanical/electrical programmed and unregulated and in favor of the casino operator. You would lose way more on those slots. 

[Afi4wins]

1 hour ago, Blackjax said:

But lets not forget that the old school games/slots were mechanical/electrical programmed and unregulated and in favor of the casino operator. You would lose way more on those slots. 

Sorry mate, but I have to disagree with you there!

Old school slot games do not refer to the mechanically operated games, those were the pre-digital versions. I am referring to the good old ways of digital games that have very good paytables, selective playlines, gradual bet increments, do not take thousands of spins to trigger a feature/bonus game, and with retriggerable feature games too.

All games have been designed to give an edge to the provider and casino...absolutely no difference then than now...the difference lies in the road to get there. For example, the old journey may take 250 miles to get to a point, newer games are taking 500-1000+ miles instead!  Those 'bigger cakes' at the finish line are nothing more than a mere hype and illusion...it may take 1 billion spins to get it, as compared to 1 million spins to get a smaller cake! Naaaah...greedy gamblers only see the bigger cakes!

Losing more on the old slots? Totally UNTRUE!!! I have won many times (Mega Wins) playing the old school games, and hardly ever winning on newer version of the same games...that's a fact and cold truth of slots nowadays!

[RazorX]

17 hours ago, Blackjax said:

But lets not forget that the old school games/slots were mechanical/electrical programmed and unregulated and in favor of the casino operator. You would lose way more on those slots. 

LoL yeah I didn't mean that far back haha maybe just turn the clock back to say 2010 Basically what the Brother Afi4wins just said no I wouldn't have everyone suffer those mechanical versions goh : but man o man give me back original Dead or Alive , Thunderstruck 1 , Immortal Romance , and etc etc selectable lines . Not sure whats happened between 2010 and now but I swear the big wins just don't happen anymore and I know quite a few people that are basically saying the same thing across a broad spectrum of software its literally blood out of a stone . 

 

Nothing is guaranteed that doesn't just go for slots but I'm being very picky about where I play these days I'm looking at the "Certified List" here at Askgamblers whom I've consulted many a time over the years and I'm thinking of adding Bitstarz to my short list of regular hangouts and when I mean short I mean three the other two are Videoslots and Guts Casino . 

[catapultaudio]

I really hate the fact that many games have had the selectable line options removed when the games were updated to HTML5. I understand the transition was absolutely necessary, its not long now before the plugin is removed from our browsers altogether, once and for all. You'd think something like that would bankrupt the host company who provided the service for all those years.... but hang on, that company is.... Adobe! They'll probably just shove another few quid on the price of photoshop or something won't they. 

Do you think this change was made in order to force people to spend more money by playing all of the lines ? I don't know, doesn't seem quite right to me. I can understand it must make calculating paytables much easier but these are games that already had support for these features, the work was already done... does anybody else have any ideas for what could have caused this huge switch towards fixed lines? I reallly hope Playtech continues to offer this feature.... and it SO better not be another UKGC enforced mystery change.. those guys really haven't got a damn clue.

[RazorX]

3 hours ago, catapultaudio said:

I really hate the fact that many games have had the selectable line options removed when the games were updated to HTML5. I understand the transition was absolutely necessary, its not long now before the plugin is removed from our browsers altogether, once and for all. You'd think something like that would bankrupt the host company who provided the service for all those years.... but hang on, that company is.... Adobe! They'll probably just shove another few quid on the price of photoshop or something won't they. 

Do you think this change was made in order to force people to spend more money by playing all of the lines ? I don't know, doesn't seem quite right to me. I can understand it must make calculating paytables much easier but these are games that already had support for these features, the work was already done... does anybody else have any ideas for what could have caused this huge switch towards fixed lines? I reallly hope Playtech continues to offer this feature.... and it SO better not be another UKGC enforced mystery change.. those guys really haven't got a damn clue.

I think google had a lot of influence over the environment in regards to the plugin a lot of security risks were sighted and artificially the situation was amplified to 

my understanding meantime the masses have to deal with the transition the world revolves around chrome apparently but it is what it is . 

As to the update to HTML5 they had the option to keep the lines without making them fixed obviously it creates a bottleneck and forces all to be played 

so its logical to assume the move was to generate more revenue at least that's how I read it they could have left things but they cracked on and here we are

: although customer feedback must also be taken into account ....well in theory . 

[Afi4wins]

6 minutes ago, RazorX said:

I think google had a lot of influence over the environment in regards to the plugin a lot of security risks were sighted and artificially the situation was amplified to 

my understanding meantime the masses have to deal with the transition the world revolves around chrome apparently but it is what it is . 

As to the update to HTML5 they had the option to keep the lines without making them fixed obviously it creates a bottleneck and forces all to be played 

so its logical to assume the move was to generate more revenue at least that's how I read it they could have left things but they cracked on and here we are

: although customer feedback must also be taken into account ....well in theory . 

If Playtech, PlaynGo and Betsoft can maintain their updated games with selective playlines, why can't the others do the same?

Possible reason - quicker revenue from depositors! In other words...GREED!!! 

[catapultaudio]

On 11/25/2020 at 9:52 AM, Afi4wins said:

If Playtech, PlaynGo and Betsoft can maintain their updated games with selective playlines, why can't the others do the same?

Possible reason - quicker revenue from depositors! In other words...GREED!!! 

Yup, thats exactly it I would say - the trend was heading in that direction with new games, the switch to HTML5 was probably seen as a blessing from god for some of these "hard up" casinos....