Self Excluded via Gamstop yet still allowed to deposit

[jjmoo2019]

Hi everyone. I am a newbie and just wanted some advice. I self excluded myself from gambling on 18th November 2018 vis gamstop. From that date on all online casinos stopped contacting me by email and upon checking my online casino accounts I was not able to log in to any of them which of course is the point of self exclusion. I finally felt I had gotten my addiction under control with help of gamstop and was obviously confident that would be an end to my gambling as I only gambled online and I was now excluded. On 24th June 2019 I received an email from one if the casinos I used to have an account with about a promotion to play for free but win for real. I was shocked to receive this email but thought it must be a mistake. As a gambling addict I of course then went to my casino account and was shocked to see that not only did it let me log in but also let me deposit funds. From this point the gambler in me came back with a vengeance. Over the space of 11 days I deposited a large some of money from my credit cards and gambled the lot. I was so disgusted with myself and when I finally snapped out of my gambling haze I logged straight into gamstop to once again exclude myself but to my amazement I was still excluded and should never have been allowed to deposit in the first place. I would like to point out that I did not try to open a new account with the casino in question I simply was able to log into my previous account with them with the same account that was in-fact blocked due to self exclusion for 7 months. All my information with gamstop and with the casino is the same except for my mobile number which actually changed about 2 years ago but I must not have updated it with the casino.

I understand I have a responsibility but I am a gambling addict and I would never have even tried to log into a casino account had I not be prompted by your email. I have received emails almost daily since 24th June from this particular casino so it was not a one off error. I feel really let down by them.  All other casino accounts I have had in the past are still excluded as they should be.

I have emailed the casino and have made a complaint asking for an explanation as to why this has happened. I have also requested a refund of all deposits as I know had I have won and tried to withdraw the winnings they most likely would have refused me due to the self exclusion.

the casino in question is a participating company with gamstop and they are regulated in the uk and are registered with the gambling commission.

i would really appreciate any advice or comments. 

[pinnit2015]

The problem with GS is that, upon attempting to login, you're in breach of their terms and conditions - for that reason, you may find you're going to get nowhere with GS (I don't agree with it, just saying what it is - ridiculous: though i think it's there to act as a disclaimer for them)

So your port of call would be the casino and pursue it via them - what you may find is that they claim 'we received a negative response back from GS, so we're not at fault' (though why you couldn't login and then could is a question to be answered) - hence you'll be stuck in no mans land with neither party.

Remember that the role of a ADR, to my knowledge, doesn't include ruling whether a casinos self exclusion scheme is effective. Nor will the UKGC listen to  individual complaints about SE (Odd, given they like to publicise the fines). So, it's kinda no-mans land for SE out there. 

If the issue is re GS then there is scope to get the UKGC involved.

 

 

[catapultaudio]

Your absolutely right that they wouldn't have paid you if you had won, that being the case though wouldn't they also have to refund your deposits at that time as well? As refuisng to pay your winnings is effectively the same as refusing to take your bets isn't it ? I'm not terribly clued up on this aspect of the new legislation, I take advantage of the deposit limit functions at most casinos just incase I get a bit out of hand after a night out drinking but I never use the take a break or exclusion features as I just don't need them... Massive respect to you for realising you had a problem and taking steps to get it under control.

If this casino definitely did exclude you previously I'd definitely want to know what the deal is with you suddenly starting to receive emails from them again. Without knowing who it is I can't really make a guess on if there could be any malice involved. In this situation though I personally would say it's only right you get your deposits back, or at least the majority of them.

 

[pinnit2015]

Key bit is where the fault lies. If, for example, the casino issued a query to Gamstop database and the response came back negative, it’s difficult to see how it’s the casinos fault. But the fact that you got promo material (a breach of their LCCP, would seem to suggest something’s gone awry at the casino point)

The fact that your other accounts were blocked would possibly indicate it has

If it is the casino then personally I think you’ve a better chance at recourse than going after GS. 

Prepare for a battle of both blaming one another though. 

[jjmoo2019]

Thanks for your replies

Just a bit more info for you. Before I submitted my complaint I sent the casino an email asking who I should contact if I had a complaint about a customer being able to bet when self excluded via GamStop. They replied to me immediately and told me to contact Gamstop and suspended my account. I at no point said I was talking about my self as far as they were concerned I was emailing a general enquiry. They have had my official complaint for a few days now. I asked them what there timescales were for responses to complaints and also asked for a copy of their complaint procedure but they just responded with a standard acknowledgment. I am thinking of submitting my complaint via the complaint section on this site. Is this a good idea or should I just sit tight and wait.?

I contacted Gamstop and they supplied me with my certificate of registration. I think I have a strong case and am hopeful I can get my deposits back and put this whole sorry mess behind me.

[ValDes]

Hey there and welcome to AskGamblers. 

First of all, really sorry about your gambling problems. Sincerely hope you'll find the strength and courage to cope with it!

If you still believe your personal details registered with Gamestop and the operator are matching 100%,  I guess it's about time  for you to consider the idea of using AGCCS /AskGamblers Casino complaints Service/. More about how to use it here. 

Also, don't forget to read carefully all the AGCCS Guidelines and make sure to adhere to them. For more information how to use AGCCS, please visit our Knowledge Base. 

Using AskGamblers Casino Complaints Service

Let us know in case you need further assistance. 

[RaX]

Hi i have a slightly similiar issue,

Few months back i had an account with MR Green casino and i decided to self exclude myself from it. (I must have lost loads)

Last week i opened an account with Redbet and deposited £500, i lost £450 and left £50 in the account to play later 

Later that day i realised i could not log into my Redbet account and was later advised that my self exclusion with Mr Green was  the cause and they will refund the £50 (im still waiting)

Should I complain and get them to refund the £450 i lost as i would not have been able to withdraw had i won and it was an unknown they are part of the same casino group.

 

[pinnit2015]

1 hour ago, RaX said:

Hi i have a slightly similiar issue,

Few months back i had an account with Mr Green casino and i decided to self exclude myself from it. (I must have Lost loads)

Last week i opened an account with Redbet and deposited £500, i Lost £450 and left £50 in the account to Play later 

Later that day i realised i could not log into my Redbet account and was later advised that my self exclusion with Mr Green was  the cause and they will refund the £50 (im still waiting)

Should I complain and get them to refund the £450 i Lost as i would not have been able to withdraw had i won and it was an unknown they are part of the same casino group.

 

It's not that unknown: at the bottom there is;

But yes, they should have not allowed you to open an account with RB - though it's phrased in the LCCP as 'reasonable steps'. There's clear precedence in rulings that they should refund you the 450 quid, though the exact wording of the LCCP is Licensees must close any customer accounts of an individual who has entered a selfexclusion agreement and return any funds held in the customer account. It is not sufficient merely to prevent an individual from withdrawing funds from their customer account whilst still accepting wagers from them.

UKGC have stopped short of saying 'refund their deposits', though it is inferred from the last sentence. You may have a few exchanges with them over this but, in the main, they seen to refund. 

 

[pinnit2015]

Also, if you don't have a gambling problem it's probably best to use the close account option, not the SE one. 

[RaX]

33 minutes ago, pinnit2015 said:

It's not that unknown: at the bottom there is;

But yes, they should have not allowed you to open an account with RB - though it's phrased in the LCCP as 'reasonable steps'. There's clear precedence in rulings that they should refund you the 450 quid, though the exact wording of the LCCP is Licensees must close any customer accounts of an individual who has entered a selfexclusion agreement and return any funds held in the customer account. It is not sufficient merely to prevent an individual from withdrawing funds from their customer account whilst still accepting wagers from them.

UKGC have stopped short of saying 'refund their deposits', though it is inferred from the last sentence. You may have a few exchanges with them over this but, in the main, they seen to refund. 

 

Thanks i have just emailed Redbet , kindly asking for a refund of the other amount due,

I do believe their systems should be able to detect a self excluded account  in their group   much sooner than me depositing a larger sum. fingers crossed

[pinnit2015]

4 minutes ago, RaX said:

Thanks i have just emailed Redbet , kindly asking for a refund of the other amount due,

I do believe their systems should be able to detect a self excluded account  in their group   much sooner than me depositing a larger sum. fingers crossed

Providing you use the same details there's no reason they shouldn't - may be the case the their systems aren't fully integrated, even if on the same licence, but that shouldn't matter to a player: certainly if you self-excluded and tried opening an account mere minutes after it, you could maybe argue in the casino's favour but months? Hmmm. 

[pinnit2015]

Sorry, my bad - may need to backtrack: Mr Green may own them but RB is on a difference licence. I've been told by the  UKGC themselves that this isn't a breach of their licence as SE applies to the licence, not who is the parent company. 

Next question is why then did they close the account? Probably to cover themselves, just in case - Royal Panda did this when it was bought by Leo Vegas: in the strictest sense the SE doesn't carry over but they must have been cautious and applying any LV SE to their own. Tricky water to tread.

Let us know what they do - good chance they'll just pay out but, if not, you'd find that the GC may just say what they said in their response to me. 

Correspondingly, had you won, there would have been nothing to stop you from being paid (unless they decided to be awkward) as the SE didn't exclude.

Oh Lord, edit again, in their terms they say the SE applies to the MRG as a whole - be interested to know if these terms trump the licensing answer i was given by the GC!

What a mind field - let us know what they say. 

[RaX]

ive had a response just asking for bank statement and payment card (some numbers blanked out) before they come back with anything so hopefully fingers crossed

[RaX]

so got an email this morning, and great news see below

Thank you for your email today.

I hope this email finds you well and sorry for the late reply.

I would like to now advise you of the below in relation to your account:

The balance on the account is now £xxxxx, to be refunded back to visa card ending in xxxx, please log in and you can now withdraw this yourself online.

 

ive duly logged in and done the withdrawal.

thanks to everyone here for the advise

[pinnit2015]

52 minutes ago, RaX said:

so got an email this morning, and great news see below

Thank you for your email today.

I hope this email finds you well and sorry for the late reply.

I would like to now advise you of the below in relation to your account:

The balance on the account is now £xxxxx, to be refunded back to visa card ending in xxxx, please log in and you can now withdraw this yourself online.

 

ive duly logged in and done the withdrawal.

thanks to everyone here for the advise

Did that include the 450 in deposits?

[RaX]

10 hours ago, pinnit2015 said:

Did that include the 450 in deposits?

I actually gambled  approx £357.00 with redbet I checked bank statements it wasn’t £450

anyway I’ve just checked and rest of the money is in the bank already within 8 hours of clicking withdraw 

i think I’ve been lucky but again thanks to everyone here 

 

[pinnit2015]

53 minutes ago, RaX said:

I actually gambled  approx £357.00 with Redbet I checked bank statements it wasn’t £450

anyway I’ve just checked and rest of the money is in the bank already within 8 hours of clicking withdraw 

i think I’ve been lucky but again thanks to everyone here 

 

I thought they would have given it all back - normally their first position is to chance their arm and say no/not mention , second time they're more amenable. 

[RaX]

Yes they did give it all back and i hope others see this thread and mail the relevent casino and get just as positive news as i did with little effort.

[sophieH]

Hi I know this is off ages ago but I was just wondering if you managed to get your money back I’m in the same boat I got gamban and was excluded from all sites apart from one site that let me still deposit over a matter of 3 months I gambled £852 never won a single thing I was on live chat to the company I’m now in dispute with tbecause they were trying to verify my account if I needed to withdraw and they told me about my gamban I said I was aware  I had gamban but with still been able to log on and deposit I thought this wasn’t under it they then suspend my account but then went on to tell me the date my gamban went into place (18.11.19) then they also told me how much I have been able to deposit in this time and now saying they are not taking responsibility I should have never been able to deposit in the first place I have gone through gamban to try and resolve this I just wanted to know if you got your money back 

[Padeh]

I have an issue with toal bet. I previous self excluded when I was at a previous address. Moved home and set up a new account.  This account has been opened for 4 months they have allowed deposits and paid out multiple times in various amounts . 

Today I won £850 and recieved an email asking for I'd and photos of my cards used to make deposits. I did as they wished and recieved confirmation that my account was verified.

Two hours later I received an email saying that I had previously excluded from their site and they have closed the account and cancelled my withdrawal and the account is in a lifetime of profit.  

They have been accepting deposits and paying out winnings for 3 months but when the amount is more significant they close the account ? Surely this must be a breath of their own terms and conditions. 

Does anyone know how I should proceed with this? 

[Chiefo20]

On 7/15/2019 at 5:47 PM, RaX said:

Hi i have a slightly similiar issue,

Few months back i had an account with Mr Green casino and i decided to self exclude myself from it. (I must have Lost loads)

Last week i opened an account with Redbet and deposited £500, i lost £450 and left £50 in the account to play later 

Later that day i realised i could not log into my Redbet account and was later advised that my self exclusion with Mr Green was  the cause and they will refund the £50 (im still waiting)

Should I complain and get them to refund the £450 i lost as i would not have been able to withdraw had i won and it was an unknown they are part of the same casino group.

 

This exact thing has just happened to me. With redbet. Even a very similar amount of money.. Where exactly does it say in the rules they are obligated to refund u in full? I'm hoping and praying for my money back. I had been really good since joining gamstop.. for 2 years. Then a moment of madness. Maybe due to the current state of the world mixed with my depression. But any advice would be great.

[Unshaken]

Some casinos don't give much attention while depositing, even if you are registered on the Gamstop site.