Demo credit converted to real cash ?

[Lisingmo]

It's been 3 months since they confiscated over £80000 of my winnings they said there tech team and security team reviewed my account and said I manipulated gameplay so slots would pay out and any winnings I had made afterwards were voided they would not send me proof that I had did this and won't send me the report from the games provider this was just gala saying I did this

 

Long story short again I have posted my complaint to ask gamblers in January with no result the case was unresolved

They also won't send me my statements of gameplay they want me to pay for it

 

I gave my case to ibas in January it's now may and they have not responded to any of ibas emails

 

Where does this leave me

[ValDes]

Yes unfortunately, your complaint has been left unanswered within the given 96 hours time frame from the Gala Casino management and our system closed it automatically as Unresolved. For those willing to read more about it, here's the link:

 

Gala Casino - Over 85,000 GBP unpaid winnings which they claim I won while playing in 'demo mode'

 

Regarding your question what to do from now on... Well, considering the fact they never bothered responding to their official ADR provider /IBAS/, I guess there's only one option left and it is to contact the relevant regulatory body, UKGC in this particular case, and request further actions from them directly as there's obviously a serious violation of the relevant regulatory requirements and code of conduct the way I see it. 

[Lisingmo]

Thank again valdes for the solid answer I will do that first thing in the morning but if they just choose to ignore or take forever to respond to any of the bodies listed above how can I take steps into trying to get my money from them I can't find any help online on how to tackle these issues

[LeoDubbed]

This is just plain cruel. I read the whole story and my opinion is, they just don't want to pay the player. It's a large sum of money for them to pay but I think the player won it fair and square. I don't know what to say than call a lawyer and hopefully you'll get your money asap.

[cocopop3011]

Thank again valdes for the solid answer I will do that first thing in the morning but if they just choose to ignore or take forever to respond to any of the bodies listed above how can I take steps into trying to get my money from them I can't find any help online on how to tackle these issues

 

Valdes is on holidays at the moment, and this really isn't my area of expertise, he'll see your reply on his return and get back to you. But I would highly hope that you get a response from the UKGC.

[Lisingmo]

Thanks coco for the info I'll wait for valdes to get back I've rang up the ukgc they just told me that to send the emails and details of the the conversations between my self gala and ibas then they will communicate with ibas to see what's going on I also asked them if gala do not respond and they have breached the code of conduct would they have to then pay me out and they still said they don't have to which still baffles me.

How can a governing body who regulates both sides not have the power to force this isn't this the whole point in the law and rules of the gamibling commission

I'm very bad at emails and writing I'm not powerful or strong enough to get messages across in words all my emails have been very friendly maybe that's why I'm getting messed about

 

Can anyone help me with a email template before I send to ukgc

 

Also when you read this valdes would you mind if I pm you with all emails and that I have received and sent from gala and see what you think I should do please

 

If I ever do get my winnings I will definitely make a generous donation to this website as everyone really does try and help those in need of help

[ValDes]

Thanks coco for the info I'll wait for valdes to get back I've rang up the ukgc they just told me that to send the emails and details of the the conversations between my self gala and ibas then they will communicate with ibas to see what's going on I also asked them if gala do not respond and they have breached the code of conduct would they have to then pay me out and they still said they don't have to which still baffles me.

How can a governing body who regulates both sides not have the power to force this isn't this the whole point in the law and rules of the gamibling commission

I'm very bad at emails and writing I'm not powerful or strong enough to get messages across in words all my emails have been very friendly maybe that's why I'm getting messed about

 

Can anyone help me with a email template before I send to ukgc

 

Also when you read this valdes would you mind if I pm you with all emails and that I have received and sent from gala and see what you think I should do please

 

If I ever do get my winnings I will definitely make a generous donation to this website as everyone really does try and help those in need of help

 

HI again, 

 

Couple of very important moments to stress on:

 

1/ Appreciate your good will making donations, however AskGamblers Casino Complaints Service /AGCCS/ is totally free and will remain such, I can guarantee that! 

 

2/ You don't need any email template to contact IBAS and/or UKGC. All you need to do is browsing their website and using their contact form. 

 

3/ I do understand waiting weeks for a response from the relevant ADR could be quite discouraging and frustrating, especially in comparison with the lightning speed of AGCCS. However, please keep in mind that your query will certainly be acknowledged, reviewed and processed accordingly, it just takes more time apparently. In short, you should be patient and duly wait for the relevant response before taking any further actions. 

 

Let us know in case you need further assistance. 

[Lisingmo]

Thank you again valdes and everyone whose read up on my case so far much appreciated

I have been very patient so far or I think I have at least it's just it's been nearly 4months for them still not to reply to ibas and when I rang up ukgc they told me companies have 90days to respond to their adr so it's gone way past that now

If gala really sure I did manipulate game play wouldn't they of already sent the evidence to ibas already and then case closed I just don't know what they are trying to do

Ukgc said it will take 2 more weeks for them to follow up on my email complaint on galas time there taking to respond so I guess I have used up all avenues now and just need to wait for the outcome

I'll keep you guys updated on what's happening if it hasn't bored you already lol thank guys xx

[LeoDubbed]

Thank you again valdes and everyone whose read up on my case so far much appreciated

I have been very patient so far or I think I have at least it's just it's been nearly 4months for them still not to reply to ibas and when I rang up ukgc they told me companies have 90days to respond to their adr so it's gone way past that now

If gala really sure I did manipulate game play wouldn't they of already sent the evidence to ibas already and then case closed I just don't know what they are trying to do

Ukgc said it will take 2 more weeks for them to follow up on my email complaint on galas time there taking to respond so I guess I have used up all avenues now and just need to wait for the outcome

I'll keep you guys updated on what's happening if it hasn't bored you already lol thank guys xx

We are here to help each other and I'd really appreciate if you let us know the outcome or the process regarding your issue with the casino. Your experience would certaintly help other players in the future

[Lisingmo]

Hi all I know I have another thread open but since this is a large community I was just wondering has anyone ever heard of demo play credit being transferred into real cash account which is the accusation being made against me.

In the history of online gambling and slots has this ever been done has anybody ever found a topic or article where this has occurred

Look forward to any stories anyone can dig up

[Afi4wins]

Hi all I know I have another thread open but since this is a large community I was just wondering has anyone ever heard of demo play credit being transferred into real cash account which is the accusation being made against me.

In the history of online gambling and slots has this ever been done has anybody ever found a topic or article where this has occurred

Look forward to any stories anyone can dig up

 

Geeeees!!!  This is the first time I'm hearing of any casino putting a blame on demo money turning into real money!!! 

That has a 99.999% improbability of happening...because nothing can be perfect anyway...so l think it is a 99.999% ridiculous accusation! 

If any casino can come up with such an accusation, then the casino must come up with proof of how that 0.001% probability could have happened! 

[Lisingmo]

Geeeees!!! This is the first time I'm hearing of any casino putting a blame on demo money turning into real money!!!

That has a 99.999% probability of happening...because nothing can be perfect anyway...so l think it is a 99.999% ridiculous accusation!

If any casino can come up with such an accusation, then the casino must come up with proof of how that 0.001% probability could have happened!

You can check the story on gala casino complaints section over 88000 voided

I've already had adice from many people on this forum was looking to see if anyone has ever heard of anything like this in the history of gambling anywhere in the world

[LeoDubbed]

There's no possible way to do that. Demo is still demo and real will also maintain real. There are a few casinos that have a possibility of buying demo credits with real cash but I don't think someone will do that. If you have real cash, why would you play demo? 

[Lisingmo]

am I allowed to upload emails they sent me ? because I just received one after emailing the CEO of gala coral group

[LeoDubbed]

am I allowed to upload emails they sent me ? because I just received one after emailing the CEO of gala coral group

I believe you are allowed to do that as long there's no external link attached to it and don't forget to delete personal informations first.

[Lisingmo]

This was there most recent one

 

We are communicating in relation to your recent contact with Andy Hornby, regarding the closure of your Gala Casino account earlier this year and subsequent removal of approximately £88,000 of funds.

 

Please note that an extensive review of this matter was conducted in February, by our compliance team, who regularly liaise with IBAS, the Casino management team and also the third party games supplier involved. The results of this have been communicated to you previously. A full copy of our final response is attached.

 

As you have mentioned that you have already raised a complaint with IBAS - you will need to follow this process. You have exhausted our internal complaints procedure; we have provided an explanation and justification of the actions taken on your account.

 

Please note that we will be unable to enter into further correspondence with you on this matter but we will co-operate fully with IBAS and any other relevant regulatory authority.

 

Regards,

 

 

 

 

This was the attached email

 

 

 

I am communicating in relation to your recent account closure which was necessary in order to carry out additional security checks and investigations in to your most recent gameplay; we apologise for the slight delay whilst this has been thoroughly investigated. We have now concluded our extensive review of this matter and are in a position to relay our findings to you.

 

During our review we have identified that when you were playing in Free Play Mode, any winnings that were accumulated whilst playing were incorrectly credited, in cash, to your Gala Casino account. Our Technical Team tried to replicate this issue, and we identified for this to be achieved a certain series of steps were employed to reproduce an error within the game. This would suggest that you have wilfully manipulated the system for your gain.

 

In line with the Terms and Conditions that was agreed upon at account registration, you are obliged to notify us of such errors. This is considered in Section 15 or our Terms and Conditions, and as outlined within we need to advise that the account(s) will remain frozen. Any funds that were remaining in the account will be treated as void - as stated, the majority of the activity and consequent payouts in the game 'Cleopatra Plus' among others were not in line with normal operation of the game and therefore cannot be construed as true and valid returns.

 

15. ERRORS OR OMISSIONS

15.1. While every effort is made to ensure there are no errors or omissions in respect of the Service, the nature of human error or system problems means such circumstances may arise. A non-exhaustive list of "obvious errors" is outlined below:

...

The amount of winnings, returns or promotional benefits/bonuses paid to You are miscalculated as result of human error or computer malfunction;

Where winnings are so obviously incorrect or materially different to those available in the market that this is a clear error or omission e.g. Full House Win = £2,500 and One Line Win = £6,000.

An error has resulted from a Prohibited Act;

In accordance with product rules, a bet should not have been accepted, or where we have the right to cancel or re-settle.

...

15.3. If funds are incorrectly credited to Your account as a result of an error or omission (or otherwise any sum is incorrectly credited to Your account):

You are obliged to notify us;

We reserve the right to deduct or reverse ("Reverse") any incorrectly applied funds from Your account;

If You use incorrectly credited funds to place bets, we reserve the right to void all such related bets and Reverse any winnings.

15.4. If incorrect stakes are deducted from Your account:

You are obliged to notify us;

We reserve the right to void all such bets and Reverse any winnings.

If bets are placed using winnings related to bet(s) on which incorrect stakes were deducted, we reserve the right to void such bets placed and Reverse any winnings.

15.5. In respect of Reversals, if no such funds are available in Your account to fulfil a Reversal (for example, where the funds have been withdrawn by You), we reserve the right to recover such funds from You (with interest) on demand. If necessary, we are permitted to off-set any subsequent amounts You deposit or win with us to make good this liability.

15.6. Errors relating to Prohibited Acts will be handled in accordance with section 7 of the Terms.

15.7. We shall not be liable for any loss of winnings (or other loss) following errors or omissions by us or by You.

 

Please be advised that this decision is final and you are no longer permitted to hold an account with the Gala Coral Group. Therefore you may not request for this account to be reactivated or register any further accounts with the Gala Coral Group. If we are to locate any further accounts, they will be closed upon detection and stakes within will be forfeited win/lose.

 

Whilst I hope this email explains our position in this matter, should you wish to escalate further you do have the option of referring your dispute to an approved Alternative Dispute Resolution provider (ADR) such as the Independent Betting Adjudication Service. You may also use the Online Dispute Resolution (ODR) platform to refer your dispute to IBAS, however, if you choose to use the ODR platform you would not be referring your dispute directly to IBAS and this may then prolong the process of resolving your dispute.

 

 

Kind Regards,

[Lisingmo]

I'm just very curious what they are going to show to ibas and how they intend to present this information I've been trying to find a similar case but haven't come across one yet

[Afi4wins]

The most important thing that I can see from the reply to you, is that a malfunction in the system, either within the casino's system or within the game itself, had caused those demo credits to be credited as real cash into your account. They are saying that such errors may have been caused by external manipulations, as they found out that those errors could only occur through specific steps, which would not have happen within normal running conditions of the game or casino system. Meaning to say, such errors can only happen by external interference and not under normal circumstances.

 

This is the critical point that led to the casino's final decision.

 

As for IBAS, they will definitely refer back to the casino for such proof of what those 'specific steps' would be, and whether those could have been caused by external interference, intended or otherwise, and why it couldn't happen under normal circumstances. As you see, this is going to involve a very detailed technical investigation as to why that malfunction occurred.

 

If the casino can satisfy IBAS with their technical proof, then I think you have no case against the casino. This is how I see it anyway, and this is just my personal opinion...I'm no expert! 

[Afi4wins]

Some things are bothering me about this case...

 

1). If you had really won all that 88,000 GBP by playing games with your real money, then all these are very easily proven by the data collected in the games history...but no mention of this has been made at all...not by you...and not by the casino either. If everything can be proven with the data in the games history, this matter shouldn't have cropped up in the first place!

 

2). Pardon me if I'm wrong...I'm not trying to accuse you or take the casino's side...but I think you yourself know deep inside your heart whether those money actually came from playing games with real money or otherwise. Perhaps you later realised that your real money balance has gone up by so much unexpectedly, by no means of winning them from your games, and you are trying to claim this error money from the casino. If so, then it is true that a malfunction had caused it, and you should have notified the casino about it, as stipulated in their T&C. No matter how one look at it, money earned through a malfunction is not valid, can never be valid, and is considered void. A 'malfunction voids all winnings' is clearly stipulated in every casino's T&C.

 

3). Pardon me again, but if I know for sure that I didn't win all that money, I would just drop the whole matter. There is absolutely no reason to try and claim it, because it isn't money won from winnings by playing games with my real money, and trying to claim it as legally mine would only bring much embarrassment in the end. This is what I would do anyway...but if I had really won that money, then nothing will stop me from getting it from the casino!

 

4). The truth will always prevail in the end. 

[Afi4wins]

This reminds me of my own true experience that happened way before online casinos came into existence!

Yep...that was probably about 20 or so years ago...hahaha.

 

I was playing on my regular fruit machine at a local arcade, my usual venue at that time. I was no stranger there and the arcade staff were no strangers to me either. We've already known each other as I was a regular patron.

 

On that day, I got a 5-of-a-kind win on one of the fruits, what fruit I cannot remember now, but that doesn't matter. What matter was that the meter went crazy when I got that win...the winning amount just kept on adding at an incredible spinning rate! I knew a malfunction had occurred, but I just kept on watching that flippin' crazy meter. It finally stopped spinning at over 200,000.00, or at over 400,000.00...something like that! I was an instant quarter or half-millionaire if that win was valid! Hahaha.

 

I called the supervisor to have a look at it, he laughed...and pasted an 'out of order' note on the computer screen! That ended my daydreaming instantly! Hahaha. I got my 5-of-a-kind win money, of course, but missed out on being an instant millionaire!!! 

[cocopop3011]

Lisingo - I think it's best if we keep all this in the one thread dear, we don't need two threads open on the same subject.

[ValDes]

Since it's pretty obvious both forum threads are referring to the same issue, these have just been merged. 

[ValDes]

Lisingmo, as previously advised, why don't you just give the relevant ADR enough time to finish their own investigation? Once done and you are familiar with the results, please be our guest and feel free to share all the relevant facts and data. 

[Lisingmo]

The most important thing that I can see from the reply to you, is that a malfunction in the system, either within the casino's system or within the game itself, had caused those demo credits to be credited as real cash into your account. They are saying that such errors may have been caused by external manipulations, as they found out that those errors could only occur through specific steps, which would not have happen within normal running conditions of the game or casino system. Meaning to say, such errors can only happen by external interference and not under normal circumstances.

 

This is the critical point that led to the casino's final decision.

 

As for IBAS, they will definitely refer back to the casino for such proof of what those 'specific steps' would be, and whether those could have been caused by external interference, intended or otherwise, and why it couldn't happen under normal circumstances. As you see, this is going to involve a very detailed technical investigation as to why that malfunction occurred.

 

If the casino can satisfy IBAS with their technical proof, then I think you have no case against the casino. This is how I see it anyway, and this is just my personal opinion...I'm no expert!

I appreciate your view and I am not trying to get people to take my side there's no point it won't influence what the final decision will be.

When you say there no data presented by me that's because I don't have any if I was able to get my statements from them I would have a more bullet proof case

I'm not not new to gambling being Chinese done it from a very small age I've won jackpots from land based casinos before but not for that amount also I am not new to gala casino either been playing for years and in the process have never withdrew any money really not sayin a haven't won I have but never drew anything out I always end up losing it all back and I've played the same games for years Pharos fortune is my favourite game

In my heart I have no doubt I won that money fairly and your right the truth will prevail

As for allowing adr more time I have waited nearly 4 months which is ample time to provide evidence to them from gala casino as like they have already stated they have conducted extensive research in February in order to make the decision to close my account why don't hey just show this evidence to ibas

My main form of gambling comes from exchanges on horse racing where I lay horses if I lose through a stewards enquiry they show the evidence to support their decision im fine with that no problem the fact is losing is part of the thrill of gambling getting your money back. But when you win and it's wrongly stripped from you that's a whole different topic altogether

1.This is my first dispute ever in my life I don't know the process or timescale it takes I went down the route of ask gamblers with no response from the gala to you guys after multiple post from myself

2.I go to the adr route with ibas sent in January no response from gala to them

3. I go to the ukgc who tell me they have 90 days to provide there case to ibas no response

4. I email the CEO of coral they respond to me the same email as in February with no extra evidence straight away

 

And now for good news today

5. I have finally found a lawyer who will take this on regardless of ibas decision

6. Ukgc have now ask me to give them consent to speak on my behalf to both parties to see what is going on

 

Again I will keep you updated on the case either outcome and I really do appreciate everyone's comments and posts regardless who's side they believe it just nice to be able to tell some people in the same industry great comunity as always

[Afi4wins]

Thank you for your clarifications, Lisingmo.

 

Being an Asian myself, I can relate to your experiences without any problems at all. And I'm also happy to hear you say that all this isn't coming from a bull...if you know what I mean...like a bullsh*t...hahaha.

 

Anyway, I hope your lawyer can do something positive on this matter. As far as adjudication procedure goes, it can take a very long time, especially in complicated cases like yours. Arbitration procedures are just as similar. so you just have to wait and wait and wait, my friend!