Progression mechanic - Unibet

[kvart42]

I found the following clause in some Unibet promotion’s T&C:

 

“Any player found to be abusing bonus funds on slot games with a progression mechanic (e.g. Super Monopoly Money, Castle Builder, Tower Quest) are liable to have any winnings confiscated and may have their account closed.”

 

Any idea what this is tlaking about? Progression mechanic?

[cocopop3011]

I found the following clause in some Unibet promotion’s T&C:

 

“Any player found to be abusing bonus funds on slot games with a progression mechanic (e.g. Super Monopoly Money, Castle Builder, Tower Quest) are liable to have any winnings confiscated and may have their account closed.”

 

Any idea what this is tlaking about? Progression mechanic?

 

Hello kvart42 and welcome to the forum. 

 

Now, I wish I could answer your question here but I'm afraid I'm as baffled as you are at the moment! Hopefully some of our members here can shed some light on this term?

[ValDes]

I found the following clause in some Unibet promotion’s T&C:

 

“Any player found to be abusing bonus funds on slot games with a progression mechanic (e.g. Super Monopoly Money, Castle Builder, Tower Quest) are liable to have any winnings confiscated and may have their account closed.”

 

Any idea what this is tlaking about? Progression mechanic?

 

Have you tried asking Unibet support about that? I mean, who else would know better what "progression mechanic" means if the casino itself.

 

Welcome to the AskGamblers Forum though.  

[cocopop3011]

Have you tried asking Unibet support about that? I mean, who else would know better what "progression mechanic" means if the casino itself.

 

Welcome to the AskGamblers Forum though.  

 

Great idea! Why didn't I think of that 

[partyhummel]

well - that supermonoply game is not available here in germany. since we deeply hate capitalism, anything related to monopoly is banned from our society. ;-)))

 

regarding the t&c change: there were several cases popping up during the last days where people got cashouts denied after "abusing" the monopoly slot.

 

as i understood it works in a way like this - while you keep on playing and feeding that evil greedy capitalistic slot with your balance - it accumulates parts of your bets. this will be paid out later while playing the game.

 

then you buist on purposew. the wr of the initial bonus are waivered - you deposit a small amount and play the monopoly to recieve that "monopoly money" payout which was created in its major part from the prior bonus money.

 

so they at last managed to state it in their t & c. because imo it was extremely unfair to withhold the players´funds before they wrote it into there...

[cocopop3011]

well - that supermonoply game is not available here in germany. since we deeply hate capitalism, anything related to monopoly is banned from our society. ;-)))

 

regarding the t&c change: there were several cases popping up during the last days where people got cashouts denied after "abusing" the monopoly slot.

 

as i understood it works in a way like this - while you keep on playing and feeding that evil greedy capitalistic slot with your balance - it accumulates parts of your bets. this will be paid out later while playing the game.

 

then you buist on purposew. the wr of the initial bonus are waivered - you deposit a small amount and play the monopoly to recieve that "monopoly money" payout which was created in its major part from the prior bonus money.

 

so they at last managed to state it in their t & c. because imo it was extremely unfair to withhold the players´funds before they wrote it into there...

 

Wow, even though I have no idea what you mean because I don't play this Monopoly slot I'm totally intrigued!

[partyhummel]

Wow, even though I have no idea what you mean because I don't play this Monopoly slot I'm totally intrigued!

 

 

;-))) you shouldnt play it anyway. it makes you greedy, scroogy, capitalistic.

 

however to give a hint to your imagination about the mechanic: imagine the slot has a basket next to it where a certain part of each bet is collected. including bonus money. later after the bonus is away and no wr for the player he returns and for a tiny real cash amount he gets the whole basket which is full of  that bonus money - he gains it and has not wr left.

 

imo that does not compensate the casinos edge. it makes it a bit smaller. anyway if you have a look into the t & c of a lot casinos you see that there is not the slightest intention of fair play towards the player. not a glimpse of a chance some places want to be left that the player maybe might be - not totally bankrupt after playing at their places.

 

i immediately forgot any thought about depositing at bgo ever again, after that monopoly thing popped up in another forum, i am not stupid. if i am lucky and win i want to be happy. not at war against a greedy, scroogy casino. 

[cocopop3011]

;-))) you shouldnt play it anyway. it makes you greedy, scroogy, capitalistic.

 

however to give a hint to your imagination about the mechanic: imagine the slot has a basket next to it where a certain part of each bet is collected. including bonus money. later after the bonus is away and no wr for the player he returns and for a tiny real cash amount he gets the whole basket which is full of  that bonus money - he gains it and has not wr left.

 

imo that does not compensate the casinos edge. it makes it a bit smaller. anyway if you have a look into the t & c of a lot casinos you see that there is not the slightest intention of fair play towards the player. not a glimpse of a chance some places want to be left that the player maybe might be - not totally bankrupt after playing at their places.

 

i immediately forgot any thought about depositing at bgo ever again, after that monopoly thing popped up in another forum, i am not stupid. if i am lucky and win i want to be happy. not at war against a greedy, scroogy casino. 

 

Oh okay so now I;m with you. So how would the casino determine whether or not the player is playing the slot to abuse the bonus? I mean that would be a very hard case to call right?

[partyhummel]

Oh okay so now I;m with you. So how would the casino determine whether or not the player is playing the slot to abuse the bonus? I mean that would be a very hard case to call right?

 

 

now  after clarification in the t & c its not as evil as it was before - since the player now knows: zhose games are restricted (so better reject the bonus and playing at that place at all imo).

 

the casino might judge it like this:

 

if player didn´t bust out he is cheating and the balance will be completely forfeited.

 

;-)))))

[cocopop3011]

now  after clarification in the t & c its not as evil as it was before - since the player now knows: zhose games are restricted (so better reject the bonus and playing at that place at all imo).

 

the casino might judge it like this:

 

if player didn´t bust out he is cheating and the balance will be completely forfeited.

 

;-)))))

 

Obviously when the game was made they had no idea it would be subject to bonus abuse 

[kvart42]

Thanks for the explanation partyhummel!

 

I've checked out the Tower Quest game and you have two "baskets" that fill up when you get specific symbols (on any position). Once you have enough to trigger some award you can do that manually or wait and continue to fill up until next award. The awards are like 1 or 5 free spins with some additional thing, e.g. multiplier during those free spins.

 

Out of curiosity, why is Monopoly banned in Germany? Some copyright thing?

[Johnnygotthebone]

I found the following clause in some Unibet promotion’s T&C:

 

“Any player found to be abusing bonus funds on slot games with a progression mechanic (e.g. Super Monopoly Money, Castle Builder, Tower Quest) are liable to have any winnings confiscated and may have their account closed.”

 

Any idea what this is tlaking about? Progression mechanic?

Answer is quite simple mate. Progressive mechanic means absolutely nothing. Just leave the door open for them to blame you for anything using that term which means absolutely nothing in the English language except what they want it to mean.

[kvart42]

I've asked in Kaboo casino why I can't play Tower Quest (the error message was saying I have insufficient funds even though I had funds) and they gave the following explanation:

 

Kindly note that that the following slots cannot be played when having a bonus active:

Tower Quest, Lucky Angler, Big Bang, Forsaken Kingdom, The Wish Master, Scrooge, Devil's Delight, Champion of the Track, Robin Hood, Pearls of India, Royal Masquerade, Tomb Raider 2, Untamed Bengal Tiger, Untamed Giant Panda, Untamed Wolf Pack, Untamed Crowned Eagle och Castle Builder.

 

 

The balance I had was from a deposit + bonus and still under wagering restrictions.

 

When asked why, they simply stated it was decided by the Bonus Team and then closed the chat.

 

In the addition to the above I was also unable to play Eye of the Kraken game, I suspect for the same reasons.

[ValDes]

I've asked in Kaboo casino why I can't play Tower Quest (the error message was saying I have insufficient funds even though I had funds) and they gave the following explanation:

 

 

The balance I had was from a deposit + bonus and still under wagering restrictions.

 

When asked why, they simply stated it was decided by the Bonus Team and then closed the chat.

 

In the addition to the above I was also unable to play Eye of the Kraken game, I suspect for the same reasons.

 

Although such an experience could be a bit frustrating and disappointing as well, let's look upon it from the brighter side. At least they blocked you from playing restricted games. Most online casinos would never bother doing that, letting you play whichever game you want, including the bonus restricted ones of course and gladly confiscating your winnings at a later stage.

[Azzthatch]

I think this relates to games that have progression achievements, one that come to mind is Devils Delight, where you can collect souls and you get to keep those souls for 48 hours:

 

"When the player successfully collects a soul and wins a cash prize in the bonus round (with the grim reaper), they will get to keep that soul for 48 hours. Once a player has accumulated 15 souls in total (within a 48 hour period), they get to enter the Sin Spins bonus round. 10 free spins are awarded to the player here, and the more they stake, the better their wins will be, in this additional bonus game. The soul-o-meter at the bottom of the screen will tell a player how close they are to acquiring enough souls to begin the Sins Spins bonus game."

 

So basically you cant use the bonus funds to gain these kind of achievements.

[cocopop3011]

I think this relates to games that have progression achievements, one that come to mind is Devils Delight, where you can collect souls and you get to keep those souls for 48 hours:

 

"When the player successfully collects a soul and wins a cash prize in the bonus round (with the grim reaper), they will get to keep that soul for 48 hours. Once a player has accumulated 15 souls in total (within a 48 hour period), they get to enter the Sin Spins bonus round. 10 free spins are awarded to the player here, and the more they stake, the better their wins will be, in this additional bonus game. The soul-o-meter at the bottom of the screen will tell a player how close they are to acquiring enough souls to begin the Sins Spins bonus game."

 

So basically you cant use the bonus funds to gain these kind of achievements.

 

I understood what you said until I got to the last sentence, which bonus funds are you talking about here? Hypothetically of course

[AnnaCasinoOfficial]

I understood what you said until I got to the last sentence, which bonus funds are you talking about here? Hypothetically of course

 

There have really been an inflation in this way of abusing bonuses lately, hence the reason why the operator in question has made it clear in their rules.

 

The model goes like this:

 

1) Accept a bonus

 

Let's say you deposit €100 and get €100 in bonus.

 

2) Play a progression achievement slot, where you can "save up value"

 

A really good example of this is "Tower Quest". In this slot you collect red and blue bottles that fill up as you go along. Once you have enough to release a bonus feature you can do that BUT you can also keep collecting bottles and "save up" more bonus features. So, you do this while playing with your bonus money and obviously you hope to win and collect as many bonus features as possible.

 

3) You lose your bonus

 

You keep collecting features until you go bust and you make sure that you go 100% bust. This clears you of any turnover requirement since your bonus money is now lost.

 

4) You deposit and claim your value

 

You then make another small deposit, release all the features you have saved up and go directly to your account and cash out the full amount since you now have no turnover requirement.

 

Devils Delight and The Wishmaster have been classic examples and hence basically all casinos have these blocked for playing with bonus money but a lot of players have started to use this model more aggressively on other slots as well.

 

However, if you are a regular player there is almost no chance that you will "accidentally" do this and hence you shouldn't be worried about falling into the trap of a casino confiscating your winnings. Only players with direct intention of abusing a bonus offer should worry.

[ValDes]

There have really been an inflation in this way of abusing bonuses lately, hence the reason why the operator in question has made it clear in their rules.

 

The model goes like this:

 

1) Accept a bonus

 

Let's say you deposit €100 and get €100 in bonus.

 

2) Play a progression achievement slot, where you can "save up value"

 

A really good example of this is "Tower Quest". In this slot you collect red and blue bottles that fill up as you go along. Once you have enough to release a bonus feature you can do that BUT you can also keep collecting bottles and "save up" more bonus features. So, you do this while playing with your bonus money and obviously you hope to win and collect as many bonus features as possible.

 

3) You lose your bonus

 

You keep collecting features until you go bust and you make sure that you go 100% bust. This clears you of any turnover requirement since your bonus money is now lost.

 

4) You deposit and claim your value

 

You then make another small deposit, release all the features you have saved up and go directly to your account and cash out the full amount since you now have no turnover requirement.

 

Devils Delight and The Wishmaster have been classic examples and hence basically all casinos have these blocked for playing with bonus money but a lot of players have started to use this model more aggressively on other slots as well.

 

However, if you are a regular player there is almost no chance that you will "accidentally" do this and hence you shouldn't be worried about falling into the trap of a casino confiscating your winnings. Only players with direct intention of abusing a bonus offer should worry.

 

First of all, a special gratitude for explaining the meaning of the so called 'progression mechanic' term in a comprehensible way. To be honest, it is after reading your post when I got the real meaning of the aforementioned part of Unibet's bonus terms. And that's a shame actually, cause if an experienced player like me don't get it immediately, then I could only imagine how much would a new and inexperienced player would understand when reading this term...

 

What you described in your post is a 'strategy' being used by many players from ages. Just open any classic Microgaming powered casino and check what's written under the 'Irregular gameplay' explanation. You won't see however many casinos explaining it in a decent, comprehensible way so that players could easily understand all the logic behind this so called 'progression mechanic'. Seems like most online casinos prefer to hide behind the stupid excuse "We didn't explain it in details, because we didn't want to make all players in aware of it"...

 

The bottom line with casino bonuses is that casinos are extremely skillful and innovate when it comes to protect themselves from player with unfair and/or fraudulent intentions, however their creativity suddenly evaporates when it comes to implementing simple measures into their gaming platform to prevent so many players of breaching rules while playing with bonus funds, such as max bet rule for example or playing a restricted game, etc etc... One would think most online casinos count on players using bonuses but not reading all the associated bonus rules, usually resulting in a win win situation for the casino. I know it's not an easy stuff to change a gaming platform, but it is about time for the serious online casino brands to put some pressure on their gaming suppliers and request the implementation of some basic measures into the software so players would be protected of breaking most common bonus rules. Otherwise I expect that AskGamblers Complaints Service is not only going to receive thousands, but tens of thousands of new complaints on a yearly basis, most of them concerning namely bonus issues by the way. Shame, cause all these complaints definitely reveals that the modern gambling world needs a serious improvement actually and it's still far far away from what most players would desire in terms of getting a fair deal for their money.

[Johnnygotthebone]

Funny. I deposited over 100k at unibet in 2015 and never got a bonus??? Lol

[cocopop3011]

There have really been an inflation in this way of abusing bonuses lately, hence the reason why the operator in question has made it clear in their rules.

 

The model goes like this:

 

1) Accept a bonus

 

Let's say you deposit €100 and get €100 in bonus.

 

2) Play a progression achievement slot, where you can "save up value"

 

A really good example of this is "Tower Quest". In this slot you collect red and blue bottles that fill up as you go along. Once you have enough to release a bonus feature you can do that BUT you can also keep collecting bottles and "save up" more bonus features. So, you do this while playing with your bonus money and obviously you hope to win and collect as many bonus features as possible.

 

3) You lose your bonus

 

You keep collecting features until you go bust and you make sure that you go 100% bust. This clears you of any turnover requirement since your bonus money is now lost.

 

4) You deposit and claim your value

 

You then make another small deposit, release all the features you have saved up and go directly to your account and cash out the full amount since you now have no turnover requirement.

 

Devils Delight and The Wishmaster have been classic examples and hence basically all casinos have these blocked for playing with bonus money but a lot of players have started to use this model more aggressively on other slots as well.

 

However, if you are a regular player there is almost no chance that you will "accidentally" do this and hence you shouldn't be worried about falling into the trap of a casino confiscating your winnings. Only players with direct intention of abusing a bonus offer should worry.

 

Ahhh okay, thanks for explaining it in the way you have! So it seems these kind of slots are a nightmare for casinos? 

 

I totally agree with what Valdes has said, more casinos need to be explaining things like you do, but takes me back to what Valdes says and I again totally agree with him, does the casino want the player to not understand the bonus rules thus resulting in a win win situation for themselves! Who knows!

 

But anyway I'm glad I understand this term now, I very rarely play any of the games you mentioned anyway. And even when I did play them I never would have thought about what you said, let alone do it!

[AnnaCasinoOfficial]

Ahhh okay, thanks for explaining it in the way you have! So it seems these kind of slots are a nightmare for casinos? 

 

I totally agree with what Valdes has said, more casinos need to be explaining things like you do, but takes me back to what Valdes says and I again totally agree with him, does the casino want the player to not understand the bonus rules thus resulting in a win win situation for themselves! Who knows!

 

But anyway I'm glad I understand this term now, I very rarely play any of the games you mentioned anyway. And even when I did play them I never would have thought about what you said, let alone do it!

 

Well, here is the low down in my opinion on the purposely vague concepts that is casino T&C's. First of all, 90% of all regular players don't read them. Believe it or not, most players are 100% oblivious to all rules in a casino besides maybe the turnover requirement when they accept a bonus.

 

So, who actually reads the fine print? Abusers and skilled/seasoned players like the ones we have here on AskGamblers.

 

From the casino's point of view, the skilled players will know what they are talking about (or be able to figure it out) so they are OK with being vague towards them. They probably don't LOVE giving their valued players information in this way but most of them will get the point anyway so they can live with it.

 

But the "value" of being vague comes in relation to the bonus abusers. They will use every little dot or hole in the T&C to find a way around the rules and if you are very specific, it might leave a hole to be abused. In the interest of self-preservation, the casino simply doesn't have a really good reason not to be vague (or "broad" to use a better term).

 

However, explaining the rules are something that every casino spend a lot of time doing (and should do happily) so I would recommend for people to simply ask if they are in doubt.

[cocopop3011]

Well, here is the low down in my opinion on the purposely vague concepts that is casino T&C's. First of all, 90% of all regular players don't read them. Believe it or not, most players are 100% oblivious to all rules in a casino besides maybe the turnover requirement when they accept a bonus.

 

So, who actually reads the fine print? Abusers and skilled/seasoned players like the ones we have here on AskGamblers.

 

From the casino's point of view, the skilled players will know what they are talking about (or be able to figure it out) so they are OK with being vague towards them. They probably don't LOVE giving their valued players information in this way but most of them will get the point anyway so they can live with it.

 

But the "value" of being vague comes in relation to the bonus abusers. They will use every little dot or hole in the T&C to find a way around the rules and if you are very specific, it might leave a hole to be abused. In the interest of self-preservation, the casino simply doesn't have a really good reason not to be vague (or "broad" to use a better term).

 

However, explaining the rules are something that every casino spend a lot of time doing (and should do happily) so I would recommend for people to simply ask if they are in doubt.

 

Ahh okay, and yet another excellent explanation from you. I have to say how impressed I am that we have such a fantastic rep here!