luckyloser
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Posts posted by luckyloser
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Here are some stats from one player:
Dead or Alive: 9716 features
Wins over 1000xBet: 66 or 1 in 147 features
1000xBet+ without a wildline/5 scatters: 5 times
5 wilds on a line: 51 times
5 scatters: 10 times
So we know the feature triggers once every 150 spins on average. and you get a 1000x bet every 147 features on average(his average atleast)
That would be 150 x 147 = 22050. So you could expect a 1000x bet win or bigger once every 22050 spins.
Seeing how this player must have done +/- 1457400 spins judging from the amount of features he has recorded. This should put his stats close to the TRTP of the game(The statistical expected payout or theoritical return to player)
But i am nowhere near these stats latley. Im going to log my bonus rounds from now on. I didd this last year trying to spot a pattern but i grew tired of it.
My results from one casino:
1: 23 x bet
2: Wildline 1733 x bet
3: 55 x bet
4: 44 x bet
5: 8 x bet
6: 202 x bet
7: 12,5 x bet
8: 7 x bet
9: 14 x bet
10: 8.5 x bet
11: 4,8 x bet
12: 11.5 x bet
13: Wildline 2851 x bet 4 scatters
14: 60 x bet
15: 25 x bet
16: 66x bet
17: 25x bet
18: 10x bet
19: 31x bet
20: 31x bet
21: 12x bet
22: 12x bet
23: 34x bet
24: 8x bet
25: Wildline 2567x bet
26: 8x bet
27: 7x bet
28: 8x bet
29: 23x bet
30: 7x bet
31: 108x bet
32: 12.6x bet
33: 8.8x bet
34: 15x bet
35: 79x bet
36: 26.5x bet
37: 131x bet 5 extra spins
38: 80x bet 5 extra spins
39: 35x bet
40: 30x bet
41: 10x bet
42: 227x bet 5 extra spins
43: 7x bet
44: 40x bet
45: 73x bet
46: 8.8x bet
47: 38.8x bet
48: 13.7x bet
49: 13.7x bet
50: 4.8x bet
51: 114x bet
52: 71.3x bet
53: 6.6x bet
54: 80.6x bet
55: 30.6x bet
56: 16.4x bet
57: 15.7x bet
58: 21.3x bet
59: 30.2x bet
60: 13.3x bet
61: 13.1x bet
62: 9.7x bet
63: 16.8x bet
64: 5.7x bet
65: 13.6x bet
66: 5.3x bet
67: 22.2x bet
68: 4 scatters - 31.2x bet
69: 17.3x bet
70: 57.8x bet
71: 7.7x bet
72: 32.7x bet 4 scatters
73: 109,3x bet
74: 21.5 x bet
75: 29.7x bet
76: 24.8x bet
77: 53.6x bet 4 scatters
78: 22.8x bet
79: 27.7x bet
80: 36.7x bet 4 scatters
81: 47.3x bet
81: 57.11x bet
82: 7.3x bet
83: 12.6x bet
84: 8x bet
85: 8x bet
86: 14.8x bet
87: 71.3x bet
88: 11.1x bet
89: 27.3x bet
90: 12.6x bet
91: 35.1x bet
92: 6.6x bet
93: 24.2x bet
94: 11x bet
95: 23.7x bet
96: 7.1x bet
97: 16.6x bet
98: 7.5x bet
99: 25.1x bet
100: 6.8x bet
101: 42.4x bet
102: 48.4x bet
103: 12x bet
104: 18.2x bet
105: 5.3x bet
106: 60.5x bet 4 scatters
107:18.2x bet
108: 75.1x bet
109: 29.2x bet
110: 7.3x bet
111: 10.1x bet
112: 28.2x bet
113: 29.3x bet
114: 28.8x bet
115: 31.1x bet
116: 11.5x bet
117: 6x bet
118: 12.8x bet
119:
120: 42
121: 88
122: 38
123: bet 9 - 274
124: bet 9 - 162
125: bet 9 - 128
126:
As you can see i was very lucky early on and all my big wins a clustered together in a very short amount of features, then there is a long dead patch. Random?? hmmm -
Thank you so much, luckyloser! You should have slots diploma and you obviously graduated DOA
Dead spins = spins with no winnings?
Hehe thanks
Yes, by "Dead spins" i mean spins with no win at all, 0 paying. But the one thing i find stange about all slots. Is even taking all this in to account if it was truly random, then why does almost every game always go completely dead after a big win? What i mean by dead is suddenly most spins pay 0 or lower than stake.
Also yesterday i found the absolute worst slot game of all time:
"Joker Millions" By Yggdrasil. I lost 100 on 0.75 bets with a RTP of under 10%.. Thats outragous lol. Tried it again today and there is barley any wins. I counted 60!!! spins with no price in a row. It was so bad i had to ask the support in the casino if it was something wrong with the game.
These kind of games makes me wonder and severly question "randomness" how can one play 130 spins and have 120 losing spins... Should really not be possible.
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Since we're speaking about variety here, I can't resist not to ask - How do you recognise high, medium and low variance slots? Is there an obvious way or you discover it by playing or it goes together in package with game introduction (a description you get from provider)?
Thanks
You can usually spot this by looking at the max possible win pr spin. Games with 200-500 x bet maxwins is low variance. 500-1500x usually medium variance. If a game is capable of 2500x + its usually high to very high variance. Then there is also something called "Hit frequency" this is how often the games pay a win on average.
Fore example i belive i read on a spreadsheet about netent games that DOA has a hit frequency of 1/3. That means on average every 3 spin should produce a winning combination.
So a game thats high variance but has a high hit frequency(DOA fore example) might give you more playtime than a game thats low variance and has a very low hit frequency. (The latter seams to be the new trend fore net ent games.)
Wish master is another example. Its very high variance and has a very low hit frequency(dont know the numbers, but you can tell by the amount of dead spins on average) so this game is more likley to bust you out quick.
Im not really sure whats the math behind this and why they choose different hit frequencys. A game thats very high variance and has a very low hit frequency might be very frustrating to play most of the time(The wish master, Wonky Wabbits) So i dont really understand why they chose this as it might discourage players to play the game again if they have poor results the first time around.
If you play slots fore entertainment only i would play medium variance games(Low variance is no point as you will never get ahead). If you play fore big wins i would choose high variance games. You might hit a good streak on medium variance games also. But the huge single wins are in the high variance maschines.
If you play medium variance games only i would bounce from slot to slot when it goes "cold" these cold and hot streaks are much more noticeable on low/medium variance games IMO.
PS. My suggestions on how to play are just my personal opinions and people should play however they feel like themselves.
- Afi4wins, Luciana and stars_cream
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Wow, its nice to see atleast some of us are lucky
Been playing allot of other games myself latey and that has given me a few nice cashouts aswell. But yesterday i got 4 wilds on a line 4 times but never the last one unfortunatly.
It went on allitle hot streak so i upped the stakes and was lucky and landed 4 on a line on 2.70 witch netted me a cool 1700
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The flip side of that coin are those crazy stories where a player deposits 50 and walks away with amazing amounts. Not from a jackpot or one big win but simply from hitting the hottest machine ever and raising stakes as they go along.
If it is truly random then there is no such thing as a hot machine. Then its just random luck.. But these amazing streaks do happen, had one myself now and then. And the crazy thing about it is it doessent matter what game you play when its hot its hot no matter what and vice versa. Thats another argument i have against it being random
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Seen a video of this slot. Dont hold your breath waiting fore that mega win is all im saying lol
Another low variance crappfest as usual.
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The thing is i have never questioned the payout % of these games. I know they pay what they are supposed to pay.
But its how they arrive at this payout % that is the interesting part.
There may be other mechanics than randomness, a reason for this you may ask? Well, fore example a game that has more near misses, or the how the variance itself behaves can make a game boring or fun.
The more fun or exiting a game is the more people play. So thats one of the motives they may have to "controll" the variance. As an example DoA thats one of my favourite slots and is a very popular slot. It has countless threads in every gambling forum.
The thing is tough, as i said in another thread its been paying allot poorer the last 3 months or so than before. Not only to me, but other forum members and people on other forums has made threads about this also.
My question is simply the lisencing authority they really dont bother about how the pays are structured right? As long as the game pays what its supposed to pay over that spessific time periode. Lets say DoA has gotten very popular among more recreational players also, not just the hardcore high variance slot players. Net ent might have adjusted the variance on the game, or maybe it pays more on the lower bets. Most screenshots i have seen latley has been on very low bets.
And allot of people seam to have had a horrible time with this game latley.
I have basicly hammered this game for 2-3 years now. I have had so many wins from 2500x - 10 000x that i have lost track of how many. The thing is before this game used to almost always give allot of bonus rounds. And yes most paid crapp, but it seams its been allot harder the last 3 months or so to get:
A) The bonus round (Might get a few in a streak, but before it would come in allot more often and some times go on crazy streaks where it came every 20-50 spins untill you hit the jackpot, could basicly spot when this was about to happen)
The average bonus round return seams to have been adjustet to pay lower. (Not just me saying this)C) Get a no wild bonus round allot more often now that before, infact in the last 2 years i think this was a fluke that happend to me now and then,but now it happens almost every other session.
D) Before if i played this game about every day fore a week or so i would hit a wildline or 5 scatters, but now it seams its waaaaay more difficult to get that "Ace" card in the card deck.
E) The 5 extra spins but no wildline used to come ALLOT more often than now.
And im not the only one notecing this, its definitely not the same game.
Also take all the newest games from allot of providers NetEnt in particular. Their new games seams to be mostley very low variance but they are still very volatile... How is this even possible? There are more dead spins on stickers,neon stack and dracula than on DoA. And this trend seams to continue.
I swear some day they will design a game that you cannot make a proffit on. Because basicly on the newer games the "Randomness" aand"variance" seams so weird that its if they have designed the games so that it will give you some playtime but no proffit, never.
This itself makes me think its not all random like that.. It might be random who wins the money or not but the spins and stuff just seams controlled in some manner. Paricularly the way DoA has changed latley im certain something has been done to this game and the "timer theory" in my OP seam to go hand in hand with this.
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To be honest, I was intentionally refraining from taking part in this discussion so far, happy to hear as many different points of view and opinions as possible and truly hoping to to find a confirmation of my own observations regarding such an important aspect of online gambling as how slots actually work...
Refraining till now...
We had several similar discussion before here in the forum, some of them containing even more facts and detailed analyses. Most of these discussions were either started by players who had some doubts regarding the fairness of a particular video slot or provider in general or who didn't have a clue what complicated acronyms such as RNG, RTP, TRTP, etc even mean. Afi4wins himself started a great discussion some time ago regarding the difference between Real play and Practice play in Playtech, a discussion supported by some serious amount of facts and evidence...And during all this time I kept explaining over and over again what RTP is, what RNG is, how these were used in online gambling, how trusted and honest and fair all these software giants like Playtech, Microgaming and NetEnt are...
BUT, why I am telling you all this? With a single purpose.
We Do Not Know How Slots Work! PERIOD!
It doesn't matter what Guru. or Afi, or luckyloser, or Anna casino rep, or some unknown Swedish forum member has ever said, or posted, of suggested, or speculated about... We know nothing and what we do is only speculating and assuming how slots work! And here comes the most important question, which unfortunately, none of you ever asked..
Why We Do Not Know How Slots Work?
And the answer is very very very simple...
Because gambling software providers DO NOT GIVE A HECK whether Guru, Afi, luckyloser, Anna casino rep or anyone else would know how these slots work as long as they keep playing /for players/ and duly pay their cut of the share /for casino reps/. These software companies have the full control over each and every single spin made by each and every single player across the globe across each and every single online casino. Then all these spins are audited by the relevant licensing authority, software companies pay their fees and taxes and that's it! That's the reality and we all must admit it no matter if we like it or not. Playtech, Microgaming, Net Entertainment, etc, after all these years and after all the billions of revenue on a yearly basis they made, yet none of them ever took care to explain in a simple and comprehensible way to their tens of millions of customers the mechanism in which their games! For Christ sake, just look at Microgaming, it is still 'hiding' the RTP for most of their video slots work?! Just look at how a multi-billion company describe how their games are working, it's simply ridiculous!
http://www.microgaming.co.uk/our-methods#technology
https://www.netent.com/about/random-number-generator/
In short, there is huge problem here and its called transparency! Or lack of such to be more precise. I am not saying software vendors are giving us 'rigged' games, not at all as I am totally convinced their games are truly fair, however as long as they refuse to give certain amount of information regarding the mechanism in which their games are working, there will always be forum discussions like this one. And to support my statements above I will give you two examples from my own experience. First one is connected with Afi4wins report which he made about all the differences found during an extensive comparison between Playetch's Free and Real play mode /check the thread here/. I sent Afi's findings to Playtech support with a request for investigation and opinion. Never received a reply.... Couple of year ago, I had a DOA session of 3450 spins with a RTP of 33.7%. Sent the complete gamelog which my casino courteously provided directly to NetEnt with a request of investigation and their opinion. Never received a reply...
So, my fellow forum mates, as long as do not receive straight forward answers to some question directly from our 'beloved' gaming providers, I'm afraid we could only talk and talk and talk...
And just in case if any of the big guys are reading through this topic, here are some of the answers I would to get answered by Microgaming, Playtech, NetEnt, etc etc
1. What is a payments cycle, does it even exist in the technology you are using and how it is being achieved?
2. Is there a predefined time frame in which the theoretical RTP is achieved? If yes, how long it is?
3. Is there a predefined number/set of spins in which the theoretical RTP is achieved? If yes, how much?
4. Is it obligatory for the RNG to produce at least once the max possible winning during a payment cycle?
5. Is there even the slightest opportunity to control player's individual RTP across all online brands using the same software?
6. What are the min requirements for a new online casino brand to acquire your services? Is there a requirement for such new casino to prove certain amount of money, licensing, independent audit and quality of service before granting your services? If yes, then how come that a fully audited, multi-billion company like yours is providing services to proven rogue casinos?
7. Do you know that by never answering these questions you would only make your loyal players and customers /like me/ to be even more suspicious?
I would love if net ent and MG came into the forum and answered or explained allitle about slots.. Would put allot of conspirsacy theories to rest.
The fact that they dont ever give an answer is what makes me more suspicious.
- partyhummel and Afi4wins
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Very often new casinos (if they are serious) are funded to a decent degree that limit the risk of them going under if they start out with a few bad months. But obviously it is every casino exec's nightmare to have huge winners coming in from all sides during the first 3 months of operation. Especially because, in most cases, casinos run with a pretty hefty minus for their first months open. Having to give everyone coming in first deposit bonuses, incentives at sign ups etc. and run the casino with low activity is a more costly affair than most players probably think and hence, most casinos, even if they are succeeding in creating the number of players and the activity from the players that they had hoped for, has to live with the fact that they are losing in the beginning - even at normal payout ratios. Bring a few highrolling mega winners into this mix and you have a Casino Manager that is not sleeping at night
Regarding the max bet rule. This one really sucks (for the casinos as well) but it kinda have to be there. On a casino with 35 x playthrough requirements on bonuses there are ways to exploid the bonus if there is no maximum bet. This would back in the days not be a problem since it was such few players who knew how to do it and actually did it but these days there are huge syndicates looking for exploidable T&C and when they find them they HAMMER the casinos very hard. There are only two ways to get around this: Raise playthrough requirements considerably or put in a maximum bet. The last options seems the least intrusive to the regular player. We are, however, trying to come up with ways to get around this but it is not easy. However, at Anna Casino we decide on a case-by-case if we want to enforce this rule. If it seems obvious that the player is completely normal and simply wanted to try out his/her luck with a few big spins because there was good winnings in the wallet, we don't hold back payment. We only enforce this rule when we can observe bonus abuse in the player behavior.
Regarding Dead or Alive, this game is really good "proof" that there is no protection for casinos in this industry in terms of how the games work. The reason why casino managers block this game or demote it to 50% value on playthrough requirements (or in some cases remove it completely) is to avoid big swings. This game is probably the worst/best (depending on how you look at it) in the risk/reward department. When playing this game, more often than not, you will spin the wheels and get nothing or small wins forever and ever and ever. But then all of a sudden a 10.000 times your bet win comes in. Casino Managers hate this kind of variance where they risk losing big and hence they want to guide players away from this game by creating rules about it or remove it. They simply don't want to take the chance of a player hitting one of these mega wins on a €10 spin or something like that.
But please note that there is no change in the payback. The 3 above games can easily all have the exact same 97% payback ratio. Games are just constructed differently so there is something for everyone:
Game A: You get lots of small wins and medium wins but few big wins and hardly ever any mega wins. Players who play these are often recreational players that just want to have a good time and as much playing time for their buck.
Game B: More spins with nothing coming back than game A, fewer small and medium wins but a higher degree of big wins and more mega wins
Game C: You feel like you are spinning and spinning forever and ever and ever without even a payback of the bet amount. But these machines can then pay REALLY BIG when you do hit and they do so way more often than the other types.
Dead or Alive is a game C type of game (and probably the worst of the type C games out there) and hence you hear about more players striking it big on that game but all of the games really have somewhat the same payback percentage.
I can guarantee you that with all the Dead or Alive spins going on across the globe this game is pretty close to paying out its natural payback ratio every day. So when all of you are losing and feel like you get a 50% payback - someone else is winning. And with DoA it will be fewer people winning than on for instance the type A slots I mentioned above and hence their winnings are much larger on avr..
Choosing a favorite slot is really a lot about personality: You can go for one where you have a decent chance at tripling your money. Or, you can go for one that will probably milk you more often than not but will leave you with a much larger chance of hitting something VERY big.
Really good reply here
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Exactly Luckyloser!
The question of how NOT to bankcrupt a new casino running such a high variance game like DOA.
Makes you think and wonder doesn't it?
I still believe that new casinos are somehow blanketed from such bankcrupting scenarios by a 'weighting' sytem of some sort. New casinos that have accumulated less wagers may have an 'insurance cover' that prevents maximum wins from occuring too soon...or occuring only at low bets (the maximum payout amount being related to the total accumulated wagers so far).
This theory is not picked up from the clouds...it was a system used by the earlier generations of 'stand alone' slot games softwares. Each software came complete with capabilities to change and amend the games configurations and payouts settings!!! I know this for a fact because of my close relationship with some mini arcade operators and their maintenance technicians!
I have even seen myself how they had changed the payout setting from say 60:40 (Operator:Player) to lower or higher settings...as the need arose! Hence, a player who had lost a huge amount of money gets compensated by the mini arcade operator by winning back a certain predetermined amount, but only by playing on a SPECIFIC machine on a SPECIFIC day! Needless to say, I myself got this special treatment from them quite a number of times! This humanitarian system keeps the customers happy!!!
Having said that...why should new online slot games softwares deviate from the proven past system? They certainly have made it far more advanced and superior now...but some things do not change! I can't prove this of course...just my CONSPIRACY THEORY!!!
I agree. The person who posted on the swedish forum also made a new post where he said exactley the same thing. Money in vs money out. The game cannot pay out if it has not gotten enough money in. Money in is paid out in increments and some is spared for the "jackpot" or in dead or alive "the wildline" or 5 scatters.
Some people will argue this is how an AWP machine works and not a random slot. But im pretty sure its all the same. Fore example "classic" slots such as Jackpot 6000, Mega joker and super nudge 6000 is AWP slots. Basicly feed the slot enough and it will pay always. But you might lose more than you get, or you can hit a streak or "jackpot" of multiple jackpot wins. Thats why casinos dont allow bonus play on these or the wagering is 0 or very low.
But im pretty sure the so called RNG slots also have a simular setup maybe just allitle more complicated. Because as you said it has to have some kind of protection mechanisme buildt in. Or else casinos can take heavy losses in the first couple of days/week starting a casino.
Then the question is, does bet size matter? Surley the game will then differentiate from a bet of 0.09 euros or a bet of 0.90.. Hitting the money shoot here will be hundreds of euros vs thousands. My theory is simply the game will pay the amount it wants regardless of the betsize.
If the game decides to pay you 10 000 euros and you bet low it will give you an amazing streak and if you bet big you will win one big win. I have seen this happen to myself countless times.. Betting 0.90 winning a few thousand then before i cash out i decide to play my balance down to the nearest 500 on higher stakes and boom hit an amazing win as soon as i raise the stakes.
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It was kinda hard for me to translate the (google translate part) myself also. Since im Norwegian myself i do understand swedish to an extent, but some words and sayings are allitle confusing. But i think we all got the point the poster was trying to make.
Well, lets say the games are auditied on a monthley basis and they have to payout their expected return to player each month across all casinos combined. Then its really easy to understand why there might be some underlying algorythem that controlls the payouts. Lets say one month the games have paid very poor RTP of 70% and the game should pay 96% then the system might adjust it so that by the end of the month it has paid 96%.
My concern is as follows: If it was truly random and all game outcomes and reel stopps are just the result of a computer picking 5 random stopp positions according to a reelstrip. Then theoireticly a new casino could experience heavy losses the first day of opening.
Lets say 100 people deposit 100 euros each and they all play Dead or alive. Lets say the average player bets between 0.09 and 0.90 euros pr spin. Fore convienice sake lets say 90 out of 100 players in this case bets in this range. Some win some lose.
Then the last ten players play the max bet 18 euros. Even tough its unlikley( i dont know the odds of getting a 1000x or above win on this game but i estimate 1 in 150 000) what if all those 10 players hit a monster win.. We all know this game could pay over 40 000x if you hit the perfect bonus round. I myself have gotten a 10 000x stake win so i know this is possible.
Then mulitply that by 18 euros then across ten players... The casino would be banckrupt the first day. This is why i dont think its 100% random, but controlled in some way... Sure it might be random who wins and who loses but not random in the true sence.
Also why have i never seen screenshots of any of the maxwins possible on netent games? Only one i think i have seen is a full screen of wilds on Jack and the beanstalk. I have never seen a full screen of wilds on dead or alive, or never the max win on wonkey wabbits,Wild turkey,thunderfist and so on.. Ok the odds might be against it but every month someone hits the eurojackpot and the odds is 1/75 million and i doubt the odds of hitting a full screen of wilds is higher than this.
This is why i think there is some buildt in mechanic to protect the casinos/software provider from ever losing. Im not saying casinos rigg the games. As you said above, the software providers keep game mechanics a company secret. But remember the more people lose the more the software providers make.
By me saying this i just want to make it clear that im not saying its rigged so you cannot win. But im saying that its other mechanics at play than it seams. And i really think people have the right to know what they are gambling on. But that might be a problem for the software providers. If people knew the whole concept and mechanics of a slot they could possible take this knowlegde and gain an advantage.
- Luciana, Afi4wins and partyhummel
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Hi luckyloser,
Before I post this, I would like to introduce myself. My name is Mikael, I am Danish and I am the Casino Manager and CEO at Anna Casino. Me and Eero will both be monitoring the forum to ensure that we can reply as fast as possible to the questions that you might have.
In regards to your question, the problem that you have encountered at other casinos is a little tricky and the reason is licensing. In today's market a lot of casinos share the same license and the self-exclusion option is something that all reputable licensing bodies take very seriously. When you self-exclude you actually - from a legal point of view - do it "on the license". Not at the casino. Hence, your self-exclusion counts on all casinos operating under the same license. I would still call it bad manners to accept a deposit from a player and then close the account without paying out winnings due to a problem that the player can't be expected to be aware of. We wouldn't do that. We would have to block the player if we discovered a situation like this but we would pay first. We believe that this is your responsibility as a casino when you accept a deposit and the player has not been fraudulent in his/her actions related to bonuses or other benefits.
At Anna Casino we are set up in a way, where our system automatically detects if a player is self-excluded at other casinos under our license and automatically block the player. This system can sometimes slip in case a player is signed up with somewhat different details (new phone number, e-mail etc.) but if this is the case the fact that a player has self-excluded before would only very rarely ever be discovered.
However, do be aware that we are actually allowed by our licencor to remove the self-exclusion if certain conditions are met (cool off period and such). In case you want to try to see if you are eligible for a removal then sign up and write an e-mail to support and they will investigate.
As a general advice, refrain from using the self-excluding option. If you dislike a casino, think that you are unlucky at this casino or for any other reason want to close your account, then write the casino support and ask them to close the account. As long as you don't say that it is because you want to restrict yourself from gambling due to problems with gambling, they can close your account without any legal responsibility attached to that closure. You can re-open it if you want to, play at other casinos under the same license etc. without problems.
Regarding your unlucky streak at certain casinos then remember that this is still just that - an unlucky streak. The casinos don't control the game results (unless they have build their own unique games) - this is controlled and monitored by the software provider and the licensing authority to ensure fair play. Judging from your avatar I assume that Dead or Alive is one of your favorite games and this is understandable since this is one of the most extreme games in the high-risk / high reward department. You can have loooong streaks of winning nothing or only get small wins but when it pays it can really pay BIG. To use that game as an example, it doesn't matter at all what casino you play Dead or Alive from in terms of game results. That part is 100% controlled by (in this case) Net Ent who uses the same system on all casinos. I always try and explain it by asking people to imagine a huge deck of cards with million of cards in it. Each card represent a combination of results that can show up on your screen. Every time you press the spin button a card will be drawn out to give you the result. This "deck of cards" is the same for all casinos running the game. As a gambler myself I do very much understand the feeling of being lucky at one casino and unlucky at others so I totally get where you are coming from. I would just recommend you to not take it as far as to self-exclude on casinos where you have been unlucky since it can have some consequences down the line.
Sorry for the long post but I figured that I might as well go in depth with my reply in case other players have similar or related questions/issues.
Kind regards,
Mike
Yes but are you sure netent keeps all the cards in the deck at any given time? Not so sure about that
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Well...it would depend on each individual slot game I guess.
If I'm the owner of the game, I'd tell my game designers this:
"I don't want any player to win big everyday..."
"I don't want the big wins to come out often..."
"I don't want the MAXIMUM WIN to come out more than ONCE IN 10 YEARS..."
"BUT...I want the MAXIMUM WIN to come out early so that all those suckers will go chasing after it!!!"
"And THAT'S HOW we can make money!!!"
So...whether controlled by number of spins, amount wagered, or period of time...no one knows...except the game designers!
Yes, makes me wonder about Dead or alive. Suddenly it was very hot. I hit multiple wildlines in 2 weeks time and some person strarted posting videos of wildline on 3.6,7,2,9 and two times on 18 bet. And then after that the game went completley cold for several months. Makes me wonder...
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Yes and the big question is if this is true, how is it time controlled? Is it a certain periode? Is it a certain amount wagered totally trough the game?, Is it a certain number of spins?
Even casinos themselves have given me some strange answers after i have questioned my RTP after som extremly bad sessions with RTP under 50%. One casino told me that the game works on picking probabilities. And that after winning big the probability of another big win is very low. He might be talking about randomness or is he?
Just to clarify though the person who made the post in a swedish forum didd not program online slots. But physical slots. But he said he is pretty sure they all work the same. Because this was how RNG slots in vegas also worked.
He also said there is no system to win on slots. But there is things you could do to increase your odds of winning. But he didd not go into details about that. Probably has something to do with the cycles. Lower to minimum stake when its "cold" or even stopp playing for a periode of time.
But i really wish there was more transparancy about these games. Casinos just says its a RNG and all, but clearly there is more to it.
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I see you are under everymatrix.. I have self excluded from some of these casinos and i have heard so many stories about other sites refusing to pay wins because a player self excluded on another site that has nothing to do with the site they won on other that it running on a EM platform.
Before i sign up can you tell me if its safe to play since i am excluded at other EM sites? (Due to very poor returns)
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So i found this 100+ pages long thread in a swedish forum where they question the randomness of slots. In this particular thread NetEnt slots.
After allot of discussion back and forth a new member makes a post claiming to have worked as a slot programmer. He even made some claims about physical slots in sweden and the swedish lottery comission and such. I have scissored out the part about how he claims slots work, and to be true it kinda makes sence to me.
I google translated it so english is so and so:
More technically about slots:
For simplicity, i write "virtual reels," or "virtual wheel".ALL slots have so-called virtual wheels, though it is of course just numbers and not wheels. But to paint a picture of how one or more spins work, so we call it the virtual wheel.Virtual wheel consists of a few hundred to several thousand or more, "trade" or "spots". Each virtual wheel MUST (according to the Control Board) contain one of each EXISTING ICON (also called "game elements"). These "original" symbols must never be removed before any spin.It is allowed for slots programmers to change all other positions (change the game symbols RNG'n can pick) on the virtual reels, between each spin if desired. So this is how to determine when you can win anything. Among all these, its CHANCE who chooses (RNG).Unfortunately, the above is a smokescreen, because what you gain in money, is still controlled by the symbols that are placed or removed from the virtual reels, and it is no coincidence, but time-driven.It is also illegal under the rules of the "Control Board" to hard-coding, ie, program the "near miss" results, that is, where you see that you "almost" could win a bonus round, or a large profit, etc. This, my friends, they solve through the free placement of gaming symbols on the virtual reels.Now I exaggerate the example below, just to show how it may look ...VR = Virtual wheelsBR = Bonus RoundPosition 2 WR 1 WR WR WR 3 4 5 VR7 BR BR cherry orange BR8 BR BR BR cherry cherry9 BR BR BR cherry cherry10 BR BR BR cherry orangeetc ....Now that the random number generator randomizing the position of each virtual wheel above, there is no combination that can create a bonus round. However, it will be created "near miss" results.Of course, in the example, so it requires three consecutive "FF" to get a bonus round, this slot!To simply explain, as simple as that can:1) Before you hit the spin button placed game symbols on the virtual reels. Selection of games symbols is done using time (time management). Time steering choice of game symbols, location, number, in turn determined by what will go to win the money, simply put.2) When you press the SPIN selects random number generator which of the existing symbols that will constitute the outcome of the game round.Timing and time, it is important to remember when playing on SLOTS !!!So im going to just sum it up here in better english.What he says is the lisence says that all symbols in the game must be on the virtual reel strip. But the games cycles on a timer trough the outcomes that the RNG can pick. Even do all symbols are there it can go trough a cycle where they basicly remove some symbols from the possible RNG picks.And he also says that its illigal to program near misses, but they solve this by the changing of symbols.DOA example: SC= ScatterRee strippl 1 Ree strippl 2 Reel stripp 3 Reel stripp 4 Reel stripp 5K Hat K K KSC SC K K KSC SC K K KSC SC K K KAs you can see if this is the symbols the RNG can pick its impossible to get 3 scatters because the RNG doessent have the third scatter to pick. But you would get allot of "near misses". So the game might go 15 minutes or half an hour with "bad" reel strips then maybe go a short periode with "good" reel strips.If his claim is real then basicly when a slot goes cold there is no point in playing it. Simply wait until it heats up again.And also if this was somehow proven or it came out that slots really work this way i think i would never play again because even tough its "random" because you dont know how it cycles or when. But still its not truly random and in my opinion unfair.- partyhummel and Afi4wins
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Luckyloser a quastion but you play in the same casinos until you get wildline or you play one week in the same casino and then change or other?
Thank you and another question before this victory, how much you loose and recovered?
I had played allot in this casino won on some other games the week before. I have lost allot on DOA since my last win, but i won from other games. My tip: Never chace anything on DOA. Cuz in the end we all lose.
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I have played at Bitstarz not in bitcoin but in euro. They approved my documents instantley trough chat and they pay fast(Bank wire) Have not tested the bitcoin games, but the casino seams safe and fast paying.
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And the funniest thing is that Norway is on that list. They usually have better terms, not worse
Haha yes exactley. I cannot understand why they put Norway on there. As you say we usually get the regular terms. Maybe there are allot of DOA bonus abusers from Norway
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Definitely not agree with both of you here...
Even if we assume there is some max win restrictions of let's say 12 or even 15 000 x bet, in my humble opinion, it has nothing to do with the number of wilds. Allow me to give you a simple example... You can have 12 wilds and not even a single wild lines...
W W W X W
W W W X W
W W W X W
On the other hand, with just /yeah, right!
/10 wilds properly aligned after 2-3 spins you may have insane good combination featuring 4 wild lines at a time! W W W W W
W W W W W
X X X X X
Frankly speaking, I believe that the biggest ever DOA hit is yet to come and sincerely hope it will be one of our forum members who will achieve this!
P.S. @luckyloser, your DOA win is without a doubt the biggest ever DOA win achieved by any fellow AG forum member, but it is definitely not the biggest one across all DOA players. You may check big win pictures if you doubt my words.
Sorry. I tought 10000x was the bigges one.. Is there any biggger? Show me
W W W W W
W W W W W
X X X X X
I have given this combo allot of tought, And also why i have never seen it on any screenshots. There seams to be some buildt in mechanic in the game.
To be honest i dont think the way the wilds land are random at all. Im pretty sure the game if its random, just picks an amount from 0 - the max win cap. Most likley there are only programed combinations that are avalible. Thats why we dont see the "dream" combos of wilds.
On casinomeister there is one member who posted 160+ i think screenshots of wildlines he has gotten... Yes over 150...... I kinda doubt its all his own,but still 160 wildlines and i have never seen the combo above.
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Oh maaan...with just 1 more Jesse or Belle, you would have gotten 1 more payline!
Our dear Guru here has a dream of getting all 15 outlaws in a single bonus game.
The game designers will probably say "not in a million years...isn't that a shame?!"
So next I want to see is a screenshot where 12 outlaws all together they came...
Is that possible at all?
Im almost certain its not possible to get a full screen of wilds. If it where possible judging by the popularity of the game we would have seen one by now. Any casino that this happened at would use it as a marketing tool for all its worth.
I think my 10 000x stake win is the biggest ever "recorded" win on this slot. I have only seen screens of 8800x and some 7000x but never above 10 000x
And look at my screenshot i had 5 spins to get any of the last wilds but they didd not come, but i got several wilds behind the wilds above...
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Welcome Bonus:
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Members from the following countries will have 3x higher rollover requirements (unless otherwise stated):
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54000 in wagering if you take the max offer... Who would ever play there? The worst i have ever seen, top it of with a 2000 withdrawal limit and that makes the absolute worst casino offfer i have seen in my life...
Thats one unbeatable bonus
NetEnt casinos - are they automatically decent?
in Casinos General
Posted
From my experience. I have always gotten paid at every casino i have played at if its been a netent casino.
Ofcourse there are exeptions.. Fore instant i would never deposit a dime in slotobank after the stories ive heard. And im pretty amazed as to why netent has not pulled out of that site. I guess its because netent delivers the games to everymatrix and not to slotobank itself.
But in all my years playing i have played at most net ent casinos and in all the places i have won i have never had any serious problems. Might have been a few delays here and there but i always got my money within a reasonable timeframe.