L_a_z

Also, to the bully topic, please share your findings once you are finished with the investigation, so I can expect an apology. Because this is straight up gaslighting.

You are one of the bullies in this case, as you are not discussing the majority of my statements, you only quote the parts when you can say something that goes with your personal logic, and absolutely ignore the parts that are important to take this conversation to the next stage.

Let's be real, noone who sees Fezbet on your site will search in the forum for issues. They'll take your referral and register.

Look, we are going in circles mostly because this is the one sentence I get: "Regarding your case-you played down your funds. Case closed." But we are not going into detailed discussions regarding the responsibilties. Or that AG has its service called the wrong name, as it is currently not a complaint service, as I mentioned. Also not addressing my issues, by the complaint handler is also a problem and inconvenience created by AG.

To be fair, I'm not as big of an expert on casinos as you guys are. A customers responsibility is to be aware of the Terms of Service. Not to investigate casino backgrounds. If the customer is damaged by the casino in an unfair way, then the casino the casino has to take responsibility, not the customer. Don't you agree with this statement?

Since it didn't happen at that moment it makes them not guilty (despite I have the proofs) and not subject for blacklisting or at least rating reduction? Thereby Askgamblers will still showcase their platform as trusthworthy and good to go. Is that not irresponsible?

Let's call your service a mediator/prevention service then. Because the very definition of a complaint implies that compensations "redress" can be requested.

Guys, this starting to be a bullying contest and victim blaming, with rapid, short replies while I still try to reason in a decent level.

So is thatnot another reason that my case should at least have some unique attention, as these operators are known to be shady?

Yes, I need a mediator to communicate my case to the company. So they take it a bit more seriously, read the case in detail, reflect on it, and then an outcome can be concluded. If it's "Unresolved" then it is unresolved, but at least the Askgamblers did try to help. There is a chance that the company understands the issue, takes responsibility, and grants the compensation. Why are we not even trying to solve my issue?

If you've read my email conversation with your complaints team, then you can see that I reflected on this too: If you've read the email conversation with your complaint specialist, then I highlighted the following (bottom of the first picture): "Here I would like to point out that they are not complying with their licenser (Anjouan Gaming - https://anjouangaming.com/players/ ) because they require them to have an Anjouan Gaming badge on the website that can be used for gambling limitations and blocks (also for complaint escalation towards them – something that I’m entirely unable to do as of now without that badge and the link it contains)." So I'm in a situation when I can't reach them, so your responsibility is even greater, as a visible platform, could mediate the conversation between me and Fezbet. Your colleague should've addressed this situation, but she didn't.

Okay, this is getting out of hand. Instead of speaking of reason, you are now making up accusations. I don't know this person, but @hacxx thank you for your comment!

Look, I had all the mentioned issues with the platform. Then to solve them, I checked their ToS to see what can be done. This is the complaint related ToS segment: https://imgur.com/a/Mcir0PH 1, They expect you to wait for their verdict before you involve 3rd parties. Thereby in a way they tied my hands, to solve the issue. 2, They absolutely failed to respect the deadline they set for themselves, and this exceeded deadline caused my losses, as the problems were not adressed and solved in time. And one reason to speak of Askgamblers standing in this situation: This is a site that provides the option to file complaints, and they don't do it. What they are saying is that I should've come here before my losses, thereby this makes this platform not a complaint handler service, but a prevention service. That is not helpful.

I'm gonna simplify, because you are not giving straight answers. Please answer me this question here, publicly: How come the operator does not become responsible for the consequences of the violation of the terms of service? The terms of service is a contract/document that is all about liabilities. If I violate it, then I become responsible for my actions, they can block my account, take away my winnings, limit the access of features etc. If they violate it, they become responsible for the outcome, and the damages caused. --> If they have the liability, then they have to compensate accordingly.

It's amusing that you are accusing me of being irrational, irresponsible, and someone who doesn't take accountability, but it didn't even occur to you once that your complaint department is not doing its job well enough, fairly, or that the particulat member of the complaint team, who worked on my case might have overlooked something, couldn't entirely understand the situation or the important cause and effect relationships necessary to see the validity of the complaint. --> As proof to back this "theory" up, there is my conversation with them in which they didn't even discuss the matter with me, didn't provide any case specific feedback. "You can't explain it better, because there is nothing to be explained. " - I've said this because this is the truth, and I've explained why. If you think that I'm evading any of your questions or statements, I don't, because I don't have a reason to. So here it is: https://imgur.com/a/OuOdjzG Also once again, here is the further "discussion" (because I know you get lost in cases and don't remember some): https://imgur.com/a/98wdrMZ So please explain it to me any better, than I've already explained the situation here. (I've tried to save you some time by my previous response, but here we are)

You can't explain it better, because there is nothing to be explained. They just referred to the guideline they have regarding balances being played off, that guideline makes the player responsible for the losses. This is something I agree with, because most of the time it's a valid reasoning to not initiate a complaint case, but there are special cases. My case is a special case because the company violated their terms and conditions at crucial parts that straight up affect the player and his/her future losses. Thereby there is a shift of responsibility from the customer to the operator. Let me give you an example of such responsibility shifts: Murdering is not okay, and punsihable, we (probably) both agree, but if you kill someone during self defense, it's not, because the liability shifted from you to the one who caused the situation. Obviously these are usually not black and white situations, but illustrates the absurdity of your complaint department handling of the situation. It's like they treat a badly ended self defense the same as murder. It's not okay.

Yes, I can see that you are mixing up my case. "you wanted the money back you played down which is irrational .... you are taking no accountability for playing down your balance" - Yes, that's probably a proper reasoning in like 99% of the cases when a player plays down the balance. But as I mentioned many times my case is not like that. First of all, a player who plays down his balance is usually not as affected by the failures of the platform as me, and didn't have to struggle and make up with the companies failures for 2 months before he got his rightful balance, just to be put in a situation when his balance is locked up for 70 more days (let me help you with the math, that's 130 days). BUT that's not even the point, If you've read through what I've written, there was a part straight up, in which I detailed that I was pursued into playing off the balance while my account was locked for withdrawals, against my will. Because I raised the concerns that I have issues with playing when my account is locked for withdrawals. So what did they do? They put me in a situation if I wanted my balance, then I had to play. So now what? Also on another occasion there was no reason to wait. When they (Fezbet) are handling a case with a deadline and they take 5 times as long (39 days difference between the end of the deadline and the answer, do you understand how long that is?). This way of reaching out to them with all my ongoing issues (that they caused) was no different then asking for my account to be gambling blocked. Why? Because I was desperate to solve the situation, to get my money out and get a fair treatment. What do you do if they sit on a gamblng block matter for that long? --> You probably go absolutely crazy about the case and ask everything back to the last penny. It's you and the whole Askgamblers team, who don't want to see the company's responsibility in the whole situation for some reason, which I don't know. So there is that. You are talking about accountability when all I did was following their terms of service to the last letter, and they absolutely put me in an impossible situation with not keeping their own terms of service. Why are we not talking about their accountability? Because then my case would be valid and viable for a compensation? "Which agent are you referring to? " - The agent who handled my complaint here, obviously. The one who has a great responsibility as she is handling delicate cases. Yet she is as supportive and helpful in explaining the reasons in detail as rock. As you can see, she literally didn't address anything I've written.

I have not received any valuable response from them. At the end of my original post I linked the pictures of my email exchange with them, and this i why I opened this thread in the first place. All I encountered with them is total ignorance and superficial handling of the case. They have not reflected on any of my reasonings. Here it is again: https://imgur.com/a/98wdrMZ (The agent still hasn't responded at all to my last email, it's been over 72 hours. So not some great experience to say the least.)

Could you please tell me what is the reason behind their rejection? Because as of now it looks suspicious to say the least. Why would AskGambler side with the casino so much that it doesn't even raise the concern, let alone attempt to help the customer who was wronged by the operator?

First of all, thank you for your understanding and your assistance! What I would like from the casino is the compensation of my balance of 7,500 EUR (the amount I had after the wagering was finished and after I provided the first set of documents for verification) and my VIP level back. I lost both of these due to their services not being provided properly. (I only need the VIP level because they have extremely low withdrawal limits at smaller tiers) If you can, please forward this summary/approach (which I’ve already sent to you directly) to the complaints department, so they can understand the issue better: I would like to simplify the big problem and the solution I require: The loss I suffered is the direct cause of the service not being provided in accordance with the ToS of the site (a dozen different problems and violations). I would like to get compensated for the balance lost during these events. This is how I imagine the complaint (obviously it might require changes, I’m not a specialist): The story and aspects that the complaint should focus on: The balance of the customer got locked up for 4 months, the constant violations of the terms and conditions, with the poorly provided service, and the lack of proper and clear communication with important deadlines not being met, resulted in the customer’s losses, which makes the company partly or fully responsible, thereby a compensation is deemed necessary in order to fix the situation. Specifics: 1. Bonus that encouraged the customer to deposit in the first place, not being credited in time (false advertisement, dirty practice) -- > Consequence: Initiated the whole process that led to the damages, also affected the outcome of the bonus 2. When credited, the wagering circumstances were not provided in accordance with the promotional terms (promotional terms violation): The bonus frequently got cancelled by technical issues (30 days of wagering time limit reduced to 3-4 days), wagering progress resetted to 0% every time, and not adjusted later, the re-credited balance was not equal to the balance of the customer when the bonus was cancelled. From1,300,000 HUF reduced to 815,200 HUF that’s something which affected the customer’s options and put him in a less favorable situation during the wagering process-- > Consequence: Prolonged the wagering process by at least 4 weeks, that delay put the customer in a situation, when he had to face another 70 days without withdrawal options (through prolonged verification process). Also the failures mentioned during the bonus process contributed to smaller potential winnings for the customer (as he had to restart the wagering many times, thereby was unnecessarily required to bet the amounts on further events that were unfavorable for him) 3. Verification process took 70 days due to a variety of issues caused by the company throughout the process (service not being provided as it could be expected) - Service issues on the website: verification page was unavailable for an extended period of time, there by the main channel with the verification department was closed - Lack of help by available company representatives: Live chat agents couldn’t provide viable information regarding the process, VIP manager ignored the questions, complaint department didn’t reply within the set deadline (exceeded it with an outstanding 39 days) - Poor communication by the verification department: Once the customer received indirect access to the verification department, the responses, requirements, reasonings and conculsions were not clear, they were contradicting and thereby they were hard to fulfill -- > Consequence: It put the customer into an impossible situation where the balance was not available for withdrawals for an extended amount of time, even though he showed to be proactive during the process, he didn’t receive obligatory assistance for which the company has to take responsibility as it is not normal procedure 4. Complaint handling deadline not being met (ToS violation): During all the issues, the customer faced, he abided the requirement of the Terms of Service, and he’s detailed his issues in a formal complaint and sent it to the company. As the ToS requested he didn’t involve 3rd party complaint handlers. The company didn’t respect the 10 day complaint processing deadline stated in the ToS, exceeded it by 39 days, which puts the company responsible for the issues that arouse during this time, as the responsibility shifts from the customer to the company after deadlines are not being respected, especially if they have an effect on the customers balance and mental state. 5. Compensation attempt was not in accordance with responsible gambling guidelines, as the player implied that he had issues with playing his balance during his account not being verified: Throughout the process in a formal complaint to the company and through chat and phone calls with his VIP manager (only channel towards the management) he implied that he had issues playing with a balance that is not available for withdrawal, he pointed this to be the cause of the losses, and while the company found it to be a justified reason, repeated the issue altogether. The compensation provided by the company was during the time the customer was still vulnerable (due to his withdrawal limitation). He was put in a position if he wanted to get his balance back, he had to wager the amount, while the rules of the compensation were not stated clearly. This wagering requirement made it impossible for the customer to limit his account for gambling activities if he wanted to eventually withdraw his balance. A balance that should’ve been available to him months before. Conclusion: While the customer played off his balance, it was the actions, pursuits and the many violations of the terms of service by the operator that led to this outcome. While the customer obliged and respected the ToS, he only received further delays and unfair disadvantages by it, while each violation of the ToS by the casino’s side gave it an unfair advantage, as these violations affected the customer. The responsibility of losses has shifted from the customer to the operator once they’ve failed to meet important deadlines regarding the solution of the different issues. I believe these are the main issues that a complaint handler should focus on in this case. And finally the definition of a complaint: "to formally express dissatisfaction with a product, service, or the actions of an organization or individual, with the expectation of a response or resolution. Complaints serve as a mechanism for individuals to voice their concerns, seek redress, and for organizations to identify areas for improvement and enhance their service delivery." What the definition of a complaint contains is all I require form AskGamblers, you have the platform, there are many reasons to do it. Let's work out together the best way to file this complaint and to solve the issue. Thank you!

I don't think that we need a perfect world to see that the losses were the direct consequence of the service not being provided in according to the terms and conditions. I can't understand how that's not enough?! I had many other losses on their website in the last 9 months, which were bigger amounts than the one I'm trying to "dispute" here. I never had a word to them about those, because that was in a fair enviroment, they provided their services and I had full control over my decisions and my balance. This was not the case this time. The responsibility can't be mine alone when the service was not provided to me, when I had issues they either misguided me, or didn't respond/help. When they should answer within a 10 day deadline (it's in their ToS) and they answer 49 days later, in an important situation like this, when thousands of Euros are on the line. When does my responsibility end and their begins? Because I think that if they don't reach out and help in 10 days, then they already have a big chunk of that responsibility. If they can do whatever they want, for as long as they want, like in my case. Then there are literally no consequences for them.

Hello! Thank you for reflecting! As I've written here in my post I understand the initiative behind the rules you have. Although, I believe there are extreme cases when exeptions should be applied, and also completely ignoring the conversation I was trying to initiate is not the way to go (as you can see in the screenshots of the email conversation). "What as the balance that you paid down?" - There might be a language barrier on my part, but I don't undertand excatly what you mean by this question. "what was the reason the bonus kept getting removed? " - The reason was that they "credited" other bonuses on my account and these cancelled the ongoing bonus. So there are 2 types of bonuses I encountered on Fezbet. Type 1: you have the offer in you "My bonuses" section and you have to activate the bonus yourself (with which action you cancel other bonuses) Type 2: once the system adds it to your account, it is active (it automatically cancels the ongoing bonus - "Freebet" bonuses are in this category, which I received every 2-3 days, despite me asking them to stop sending these) "What was the original validity time of the bonus to complete wagering?" - They should've provided 30 days of uninterrupted wagering time. These are the terms (Point 13 is relevant if you want to check it): https://fezbet9.com/en/promotions/50-weekly-reload-bonus "Are you saying they removed the bonus BEFORE this time expired?" - Yes, every 2-3 days it was cancelled with all wagering progress nullified. It was basically unplayable like that, and so unfair. As for "playing off the balance related questions" like this: "Did you at any point ask the casino for a cooling-off period so you couldn't access your account?" - it's a complex situation. - I wanted to access and withdraw my balance, if they lock me out of the account I can't do this, remember I couldn't withdraw this balance for 2 months at that point, so it was urgent - I had no reason to ask for it, as far as I knew the verification could've been done at any minute, since I provided the documents (from which I didn't get a feedback - turned out that the site had technical issues --> blank verification page; and they don't communicate in any other way), and I could withdraw the balance - I normally don't have any kind of gambling issues. The dozens of failures and violations of the platform during the weeks and months is what caused frustration to make me do irrational things (obviously I have a part in this at it was my decision, but even Fezbet acknowledged their responsibility in this --> if this is not proof that I'm in the right, than what is?) - After this they gave me the compensation all the while my account was still limited for withdrawals (I implied multiple times that I can't play like this, so they were aware of my issue, which is basically like admitting that "I need a cooling-off period while my account is locked for withdrawals") at this point it was not my decision but their pursuit that caused the losses, since they provided the balance with a wagering requirement - if I was gambling blocked, then I had no option to wager the amount and get my balance out. It was made impossible throughout the whole time to get my money out, in any way, and when I might had the chance then blocking the account would mean that I can't withdraw my balance, because they put a wagering requirement on it, all the while they were aware of my issue/vulnerability, and isntead of creating the ideal circumstances, they immediately pursued me into playing the balance. And now that they can provide that compensation while I finally have unlocked withdrawals, they don't do it, even though that was the original requirement/agreement. For easier understanding of the situation, let me show my case through an example: You go to the cinema to watch a movie, you pay for a large bucket of popcorn and a soda. You get them after 40 minutes, missing the first part of the movie, the popcorn is cold, and the bucket is half empty. You go into the movie, the sound is low, and has a screeching noise, half of the movie screen is ripped off, and the movie is blurry, so you walk out. Then the cinema and the customer protection service says that it's your fault that you've not seen the movie, since you chose to buy a popcorn (which they provide) that resulted in you missing out on the first part of the movie, and then you also walked out (we are here right now with me being unable to file a complaint). Obviously there is logic behind this, but is it really my fault, not the operator' who created unbearable and unfair circumstances? By the way, staying with this example, the cinema admitted their fault, gave me another ticket, but the circumstances of the service were in the same terrible state --> they recreated the issue. It's not a solution. (and after this they were not helpful anymore.)

I've had multiple issues with the online casino Fezbet, which I couldn't solve with them (the case is absolutely stunning, and filled with violations, it's an interesting read), so I thought I will register here to try to solve the issue, but all I got was a new issue created by AskGamblers' handling of the case. I’m at a point where I need a 3rd (or 4th) party complaint against the site (AskGamblers) that should represent my complaint to the company (Fezbet) with which I have the issue. The absurdity. To understand the situation (It will be just a couple bullet points, not nearly enough to fully understand the whole story): - I’ve deposited €10,000 into Fezbet which they encouraged with bonus advertisements, personal offers etc. - Which they didn’t even want to provide at first (straight up false advertisement), but then after 1 month I received the bonuses, after this, they constantly cancelled them (that’s promotional terms violation on their part), they took my wagering progresses every time (I was reset to 0%), it took them days to recredit the bonuses, and they didn’t even credit my full balance back (I was in a profit each time they cancelled my bonus), which is important when you have a 24x wagering requirement. Overall prolonging a couple day long process to 35 days (It was successful wagering ~€7,500 cash). Not speaking about the fact that it was an unfair process throughout, which affected the end result (could’ve been even more). Overall, I didn’t have a single penny available for withdrawal for over 2 months at this point. - They then initiated a verification process, which they couldn’t handle. They don’t know what documents to ask for, their verification page was blank (for document uploading and progress overview) for 80% of the process, there is no other option to have direct access to the verification team, and no one else can or has the will to help (live support, vip manager, complaint department, basically no one). Then you try to file a formal complaint, which they should answer in 10 days according to their terms, but they don’t do that either. It took 49 days for them to write a 4 sentence long reply to my complaint, and it took them 70 days to verify my account. - During this 70 days, I played off my balance, remember, to which I didn’t have access for 2 months (because of the bonus related issues) + it was multiple weeks into the verification process. So it’s an extreme situation already, and I believe would deserve a case, as it’s not normal operation BUT it’s not even my main point. - So I filed the mentioned complaint which listed most of the issues I had so far, and that I wish to have a compensation and get through this verification process, because I can’t play with a "toy balance" anymore. Since they didn’t reply, I turned to the management. I detailed my issues once again, including that I have problems with playing responsibly while my account is being limited as I can’t take my balance seriously and it affects me. (they don’t have gambling blocks that a customer can set for himself, so it would be extremely important that they take these statements by customers seriously - as this is the only way customers can get limitations on their site - but they didn’t -->Also they put me in a situation that I couldn't limit or exclude myself if I wanted my rightful balance back) - My VIP manager took the task to be my middleman between me and the verification department, I had all the right to expect the verification to be processed quickly as I supplied all the required documents even before the compensation was granted (since I had „priority case” and an inner person sent them the documents - I was wrong, it took them on average 6 days to reply), so it took 25 more days for the verification to be done. (They are the causes of the delay) - The management unlike what my request included and what responsible gambling guidelines would suggest very quickly credited the amount with further wagering requirements, and otherwise unclear rules to make me play the balance while they potentially knew well (if they know their own company) that my documents will not be verified for a significant amount of time, and they recreated my previous issue for which they granted the “compensation”. After this they denied my request to give me the compensation as we agreed (the account not being limited for withdrawals), and came up with half-truths and straight up lies. All I wanted was fair play, and what we agreed on, but they gaslighted me, not followed responsible gambling rules, they straight up did the opposite of what those rules suggest. This deserves a complaint. This is the extremely short and shallow summary of my story. This is not a simple „played off balance” case, this is a series of issues that each could be a subject for a separate complaint. They also pursued me into playing multiple times during the process if I wanted my balance, which balance I should’ve otherwise been on my bank account a long time ago. Adding up the issues of the bonus process + verification process they took my money for 4 months. They also pursued me into playing the balances while they were not doing anything to protect me when I was vulnerable, all the while they didn’t provide me with a withdrawal option. But even if this didn’t happen, it was 4 months. Nothing can justify 4 months if you ask me. I understand that AskGamblers have neutrality in mind when it comes to complaint guidelines, but in my case the casino stepped over the line in almost every aspect, it is a complex and extreme case. Obviously most cases can’t be subjects of a complaint when a customer lost his/her balance during a verification process, otherwise it would be an unfair „weapon” in the hand of the customers. This is clear, logical and I support this. But in my case it took 70 days to finish a simple verification process (of which about 6-8 days was on me while I was collecting banking documents), everything else was the site’s fault, no one was available to help me during the process (live chat, VIP manager, complaint department etc), the verification page on the site was blank nearly for the whole duration of the process, the verification team couldn’t articulate issues, didn’t give specific requirements, and answered extremely slow, on avg. once in a week. In the meantime they credited compensations with unclear rules, and with a wagering requirement, pursuing me into playing while the account was still limited (and the delay caused by them). when I told them beforehand that I have issues with playing with a balance that I have no control over (not available for withdrawal). This was before they credited the amount. Is this a responsible gambling operator? Is this a normal case of balances being played off during the verification process? I think not. So I’ve had the complaint sent in, sadly I can’t seem to insert the PDFs here, and their content is far too long to be just copy + pasted here (15 page long documentation of the case + many pictures of conversations with the company that prove my case, proofs of ToS violations, delays, personal agreements not being respected etc.). AskGambler’s declined it based on that “Balance played off while waiting to be paid” reason. I’ve written an email explaining my case to them, because I’m pretty sure that they didn’t read through the whole case documentation, or if they did, they didn’t entirely understand it. What I received as an answer is just baffling to. They didn’t reflect on what my email contained at all. Just look at the email conversation that I attached. Excluding the etiquette used in email conversations, 3 sentences were written by them, not addressing any of my points. After that, I’ve tried, I believe justifiably, and reasonably to find solutions, but the conversation was basically closed on me. Honestly at this point the particular AskGamblers agent was less helpful than the casino itself. As I see this website, this should be a place of conversation, of reason, but what I received here so far is superficial service provision. What is your opinion on this situation? Dear AskGamblers team, I'm waiting for your response too! I believe it's obvious that a simple reference to your complaint guidelines is not enough in this particular case, especially because most of my issues weren't even acknowledged, mentioned, and when I reasoned, or asked about them, they were essentially ignored. After that when I tried to find alternative solutions, the conversation was one-sidedly closed by your cs agent. Images of my email conversation with AskGamblers is visible here (it's important to read them for having full context) - https://imgur.com/a/98wdrMZ