Incident whilst Spinning for $3,300,000 MGV Progressive - are my concerns valid?

[scuter]

Prologue: I estimate I have logged about 1500-2000 hours of game time at Microgaming online casinos [thousands more at Prima poker rooms, but not sure that's relevant to the issue at hand].

 

Incident: A couple weeks ago I was playing Mega Moolah Isis Progressive on Max Coin / Lines at Casino Classic [CasinoRewards]. As anyone who plays the MGV Progressive would already be aware, the Jackpot spins occur [ostensibly] randomly. And they are not common. I mean, I burned through over $1000 at $6.25 on Mega Moolah without seeing a single one.

 

The Progressive Jackpot wheel is obviously Weighted but it looks like this:

 

 

I think it spins for roughly 5-10 seconds.

 

So the Wheel popped up, and I pressed Spin and it was spinning. At which point, something I'd never seen in 7,000,000 seconds whilst playing on Microgaming casinos occurred during that 5-10 seconds where I was spinning for $3.3million:

 

 

The game had just been killed and I was in the lobby looking at that error message. I was not disconnected from Casino Classic or any of the dozen applications connected to the Internet.

 

When I went back to my game, I see this:

 

 

I've seen that particular Jackpot 'win' on all 7 of my Mega Moolah spins lifetime. This was the only time I was concerned to see I'd 'won' ~$10.

 

I kept playing for a little bit but then decided I was too uncomfortable with what had happened to continue so I jumped on Live Chat. If I was concerned before, you can imagine how I felt after chatting to CS:

 

What this chat doesn't show is the 40min or so duration of it. There were very long pauses before I was given answers.

 

Please enter your FIRST NAME in the line next to the OK button and then press the OK button. An operator will be with you shortly.

You are now chatting with Anne-Sophie.

Anne-Sophie: Hi ! Welcome to the Rewards Loyalty Team, how are you doing?

you: hi Anne-Sophie

you: May I call you simply Anne?

you: I shall take that as a No - I do apologise

Anne-Sophie: How can I help you today?

you: I am doing good but tempered with concern

you: what causes a "casino error" non-disconnect?

you: simply game shuts down and I'm in the lobby with a message that says "we have a casino error"

Anne-Sophie: Do you have any error number?

you: um let me check

you: Error 10

Anne-Sophie: one moment please

Please wait while I transfer the chat to 'Sandra'.

You are now chatting with Sandra.

you: Evening Ma'am.

Sandra: good evening

you: ? scuter: My question mark here was after waiting for 5-10min of silence.

you: Were you briefed at all before I transferred across?

Sandra: yes I read the above conversation

Sandra: Just a moment please

Sandra: Please double check because the error 10 doesn't exist. You must have missed a number

you: That...is concerning.

you: nope. I have error 10

you: but now I'm REALLY concerned.

Sandra: You will have to write an email to our Risk Management Department since the support team is not aware of this error. Please write an email to the following address :

Sandra: [email protected] in order to get advices.

Sandra: Unfortunately we cannot help you further regarding this issue here on the chat.

you: okay. i guess. if there is a factor in this that makes it maybe an emergency do you have an emergency risk team?

you: that is ready like now. and not contactable via email?

Sandra: Sorry they can only be contacted via email

you: Okay. I shall tell you why I'm concerned to see if I have a reason to be or not

you: I'm playing max coin on Isis $3,000,000 plus Jackpot game

you: i go to the Jackpot spin.

you: they're not exactly...um they're a bit rare if you play the game you'd know

you: the wheel is spinning

you: the game is dumped

you: and I have a casino Error that you say doesn't exist

you: i reload the game and I've apparently won $10.

you: would you be concerned? in my position?

Sandra: Explained it in your email addressed to Risk Management , please. Unfortunately the LiveChat support cannot help you further regarding this issue.

Sandra: Thank you.

you: right. thank you!

you: is there a way I can save this chat pls?

Sandra: Yes you can always copy and past on a word document ( ctr+C and ctr+V)

you: That's not exactly saving it. i could write anything in a word doc

you: there is no other way?

Sandra: No I regret. Why would you change this chat conversation ? Sorry I don't understand you intention....

you: It's not about me

Sandra: ??

you: It's about record-keeping.

you: sigh

you: never mind Sandra...thanks for your assistance.

you: have a good day

Sandra: Well there is no other way, sorry :-(

 

Of course I immediately wrote a concise summary of the incident including screenshots and emailed [email protected] with a request for urgent response.

 

The email was sent June 11, 2010. 16 days ago. To this moment, no one has replied to that email or attempted to contact me in regards to my concerns over the incident.

[scuter]

Last week, annoyed at not having received any response, I jumped on Live Chat to inquire what exactly was going on:

 

Please enter your FIRST NAME in the line next to the OK button and then press the OK button. An operator will be with you shortly.

You are now chatting with Tibs.

Tibs: Hi [my name]! Welcome to the Rewards Loyalty Team, how are you doing?

me: hi Tibs

me: my Casino Classic login is rcsv99999999

me: um. on thurs? i was playing mega moolah and probably won the 3.3million

Tibs: ok

me: except i'm waiting for your security to reply? it's been 4 days

me: 5 days

Tibs: who did you send an email to ?

me: <my email> to [email protected] date 11 June 2010 05:28

Tibs: ok you need to wait until you hear from us I am sorry..

Tibs: but you can also resend an email..

me: that's it?

me: only 3.3 million dollars in play i suppose. i guess i'll resend an email to people who aren't responding?

Tibs: I am sorry but I cannot do anything about this/

me: Can I speak to someone that can?

me: this doesn't seem...appropriate.

Tibs: I am sorry.

Tibs: but this is all you can do.

me: And what if 2 more days go by and they haven't responded?

me: How about a week?

me: A month?

me: Tibs surely you realise this is ridiculous. This cannot be the "only option"

Tibs: you can also send an email to [email protected]

me: What's the point? they'll just try the same line you're trying...

me: Can I speak to your supervisor please?

Please wait while I transfer the chat to 'Nathan'.

You are now chatting with Nathan.

Nathan: Hi [my name]- I'm Tibs' supervisor. How can I help?

me: hi Nathan

me: are you able to read the chat up?

Nathan: Yes- give me one second.

Nathan: Okay - if I can clarify-

Nathan: you believe you have won the progressive jackpot on Mega Moolah?

me: sigh i dunno fml

me: the alternative is a 1,000,000:1 coincidence occuring

me: a coincidence that is a Error Message that CS says is impossible

Nathan: Okay - you'll need to be a bit more specific.

me: [complete description of events thus far]

Nathan: Have you checked your playcheck to see the result of the spin in question?

me: ? Nathan.

me: if I won 3.3 million, i would not be here right?

Nathan: I don't see any record of 3.3 million hitting your account. Please be as clear as possible- I need all the facts.

me: the facts are an error that doesn't exist....

me: EXISTED. whilst i was spinning for 3.3mil

Nathan: We have Error 0 which is a general casino error usually resulting from a slight lag between your pc and the casino server, however, the spin will play out in the Casino server and you can access the result in your Playcheck.

Nathan: I can assure you that you did not win 3.3 million:( This time anyway:)

me: Error TEN

me: 10

me: the number ten

Nathan: The fact of the matter is that you had a dud spin I'm afraid- you can check playcheck and see the result of your last spin on that game.

Nathan: Unfortunately it's not a winning one:(

me: Error 10 does NOT exist!!!

me: http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/4185/casinoclassiccasinoerro.jpg

me: what playcheck shows is THE issue...

Nathan: It means the exact same as error 0- general error. In this case, you're not in a game when the error was captured anyway- what does playcheck show for you?

me: also i've played like 1500-2000 HOURS on microgaming. i've never seen this. so it's a 1,000,000:1 'coincidence'

me: pls stop asking me what playcheck shows.

me: as if that is the be all and end all

Nathan: We have casino errors all the time- it's hardly a million to one. And yes- playcheck is the be all and end all as it is the legal record of each play.

me: a one million to one coincidence!!!!!!

me: and it's a casino error that doesn't exist?

me: whilst I'm spinning for 3mil?

me: come on Nathan.

Nathan: you did not win 3.3 million.

me: oh! okay then! thanks!

me: i guess that answers it.

Nathan: If you had've, both Microgaming and the Gaming Commission would have phoned us up immediately, and you'd probably be on a flight to sydney right now to collect an oversized novelty cheque.

me: omg

Nathan: Unfortunately you just weren't lucky this time:(

Nathan: But Playcheck is the last word on these issues.

me: How did Error 10 - which DOES NOT EXIST - occur whilst I was spinning?

me: and no one wants to respond to my emails / screenshots. how come?

Nathan: It does exist- it's a casino error and I'll speak to the operator you spoke with earlier.

Nathan: It's really not that alarming. The spin did complete, just not on your end.

Nathan: Thus, you can access the results of such spins in playcheck.

me: it's a casino error I haven't ever seen in 2000 hours of play - that's 2000 x 60 x 60 seconds = 7 million seconds

me: and it just so happens to occur for the first time ever at that moment?

Nathan: you did not win 3.3 million. Our systems are very reliable so you won't encounter casino error messages often, but on occaision you will. Probabilities are not linked.

me: Can you please cut / paste all the info you have there re: Error 10

me: the technical information

Nathan: sec

Nathan: "We have a Casino error, please try again later."

Nathan: This error refers to not being able to connect with the casino server, either being unable to connect, or lossing connection

Nathan: In the event of an unknown error, the player should disconnect from the casino, and attempt to re-connect.

me: i never lost connection

Nathan: Tadaa

me: i was connected the entire time whilst i was taking the screenshot

Nathan: No, but that doesn't mean your ISP didn't have a blip with the casino servers- your data goes through a lot of points enroute from Bangkok to Montreal-

me: i was DUMPED from the game

me: yes and it has done so for 7 million seconds without my ever seeing this error

me: and why do I have this feeling I'll never see it again?

Nathan: It was most likely a connection interruption somewhere between Bangkok and Montreal- could've only been a nano second, but the play DID play out and can be accessed on playcheck.

me: Can you please cut / paste all the info you have there re: Error 10

Nathan: It's a general error, and no.

me: Sorry?

Nathan: At the end of the day

Nathan: the result of that spin is on Playcheck which is the legal last word in the matter-

me: You can't give me more information on Error 10?

Nathan: Secondly, I'm not able to give out in house technical information- that's why I gave you the general synopsis only

me: you said it was routine though?

Nathan: It would be like asking me to give out the formula by which we calculate comps- somethings are sensitive and not public.

me: so Error 10 is sensitive?

Nathan: You've been given all the information you need as well as how to find the legal record of that spin.

Nathan: And no, it is not sensitive

Nathan: However

Nathan: I'm not able to give out in house technical information. Which is standard practice for any business.

Nathan: You've received the general synopsis, and how to resolve the issue. [Chat continued in post below due to character limits / post]

[scuter]

[chat continued from post above]

me: Are you able to explain why Risk Management haven't responded to my email yet?

Nathan: Probably because it was a public holiday here in Australia and they only work business hours.

me: 4 day long weekend? it's wednesday morning

Nathan: (Though if you had actually won 3.3 million someone probably would've come in on the weekend. Unfortunately, that is not the case as per Playcheck.

Nathan: Backlog. And again- you didn't win.

me: I accept that. I'm just trying to find out some more information - as you would in my position

Nathan: All the information on the spin in question that you require is in Playcheck.

me: But that can be coded, changed, it's not 100% evidence of anything...

Nathan: The Gaming Commission would not allow that and we would be shut down and a criminal investigation would probably ensue. We do not tamper with results-

me: Can I ask why there is a special secret Error message for momentary disconnects?

me: surely this is in addition to the standard Error message which CS would know very well...?

Nathan: It's not a secret. Otherwise a pop up window alerting you to it's presence would not appear

me: secret enough that CS said it was impossible

Nathan: No- that was just operator error.

Nathan: And yes

me: i'm arguing from a position of strength here...error or not, it's in addition to the standard Error message which she was aware of, is it not?

Nathan: if you give me one second I'm double checking wtih Microgaming

me: np

Nathan: Error 10 specifically means

Nathan: it's routine encoding error which closes the game. Again, not on the Casino server side.

me: some coincidence...

Nathan: it's hardly a coincidence that on occaision there are system errors.

me: the definition of 'coincidence' is really all about timing of unrelated events

me: 7,000,000 seconds without seeing Error 10 and then whilst the wheel is spinning for a Progressive Jackpot, it appears for the first time - that's the definition of 'coincidence'

Nathan: No- that's a system error.

me: perhaps. but it can be both a system error AND a very strange coincidence

Nathan: People spin for jackpots all the time- we've only ever had one 5.5 million winner

me: perhaps because all the winners keep getting Error 10 messages

Nathan: I deal in probability- the chances of multiple million dollar jackpot winners is (though possible) highly unlikely- regardless of whether or not they're receiving Error 10 messages:)

 

 

I'm not very technical, but I know that the Gaming Commission he claimed would "not allow it to happen" is the KGC who wouldn't have allowed Absolute / UltimateBet owners to code SuperUser accounts into their software and then steal from players for six years...or would they have? Who knows....

 

And I know that if CS say an Error Message doesn't exist, even if they're wrong, it's a god damn rare error message. Obviously.

 

So this spookily rare Error Message - which I haven't seen in 7,000,000 seconds - occurs in the 5-10 seconds whilst the Wheel is spinning for $3,300,000.

 

And Risk Management has never responded to my report of the incident.

 

Something makes me really comfortable about that. Would you be concerned in my position?

[Lucky13]

Wow, you have all evidence. You should definitely create a complaint, so we can see what we can do about it. Again -> http://www.askgamblers.com/submit-complaint-p47

 

If you still have a problem creating a complaint, I can do it for you. Just let me know.

[scuter]

Wow, you have all evidence. You should definitely create a complaint, so we can see what we can do about it. Again -> http://www.askgamblers.com/submit-complaint-p47

 

If you still have a problem creating a complaint, I can do it for you. Just let me know.

 

I'm glad that I'm not laughed into oblivion, which [due to my lack of technical understanding] was / is always a totally possible scenario with something like this. I mean, obviously winning a Progressive jackpot that large is incredibly rare and I'm not really playing the Progressive expecting to ever win one in my entire life - but just the *chance* of winning is enough to make the game fun. That *chance* needs to be genuinely there though

 

And I accept that, in all likelihood, it was just a freak coincidence. But 'freak' is almost putting it mildly. I'm genuinely not sure which is more likely - winning the 3.3 progressive *once* you're spinning for it....or a 1million:1 coincidence. Pretty sure it's the former - and the lack of response from Risk Management and the fact that I've asked two MGV VIP managers for their thoughts on this and received no reply....the whole thing is creepy at best. And at worst?

 

The sad thing is I have about 20 Complaints to file. And I'm lazy. But I think I'll crack open my unused IE and see if I can post this up as I've kinda done the work already so in your face Lazy!

[scuter]

Thanks for cleaning the mess of my complaint up and making it presentable! It looks a million bucks. 3.3 million even

 

[Lucky13]

$3.3 millions sounds a quite lot, but let's hope we'll do something!

[Lucky13]

Just for a note. Full complaint can be found here: http://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/casino-classic-weird-incident-c101

[blackjack]

I would create a complaint. What if you actually won the jackpot. You deposited at the casino with your money so it is your right to know what error 10 means.

[Lucky13]

He already got some explanation: http://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/casino-classic-weird-incident-c101#message-303

 

We're waiting for a feedback from a tech guys now.

[scuter]

I was probably WAY too blunt with my response. I fear she may not return with a reply. But I struggle to remain civil when someone refers me to redundancy when I raise a valid concern. I don't get insulted by much at all, but being patronised will raise my temperature every time.