markransome
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Posts posted by markransome
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Nice looong list, where do you start?
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Hi, just found this thread, fairly new to the forum, Electrician by day, poor poker player by night (when I get the chance!). Also quite new to forums, I find them a bit confusing, but that's me.
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Sorry, have to expand a little on this, the actual term is "Pseudorandom number generators". Look up the word "Pseudo". It means false or fraudulent! How about that then?
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Well, I am into computing a little bit and the reason I don't play the likes of online slots and roulette is simple, if I owned the casino and was in charge of the software, wouldn't you rig it in your favour? As for Random Number Generators, a computer cannot make random selections, this is saying that the computer at the heart of it all has a mind of its own! It has to follow an algorithm, but who is in charge of the algorithms? You can make the algorithms as mathematically complicated as you want, but they will never be truly random, they will follow a complex set of rules to determine what you and I perceive to be random.
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Yes but what about cashing out?
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Nice bonus but I am still trying to get my head round cashing out terms!
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The best thing about it is that my wife is actually very good at poker, but she prefers a night out with the girls at our local Gala Bingo club! I am still a novice at poker really, and when we play poker together she beats me black and blue
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Well, it's Friday night tonight, the wife is going to bingo, I fancy a flutter, maybe try my luck at poker. Anybody got any suggestions where to get a good deal? I have my weekly allowance off the wife, when it's gone' it's GONE!
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Thank you, nice to be welcomed
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This is true, However. Gambling should be fun! I only gamble once a week and I always set myself a limit, once that limit is gone that's it. It is not fun when the urge to to break your limit takes over! It can take over your life, I know a couple of people where this has happened and it's not good. They almost lost everything, including their family and home. Be responsible, my wife likes to go to Gala bingo once a week, she takes with her a certain amount of money for the night and gets a good two hours enjoyment with her friends and a couple of drinks. I stay at home on those nights and spend the same as her. She probably gets more value for money, but as I said, when its gone, its gone and that's it! Don't take it too seriously.
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Also new to forums! Not quite sure what I did here?
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Hello friends!
This is a guide, dedicated to all fans of online casinos and which I hope to help you save a huge part of any unpleasant emotions, associated with withdrawals of your profits from a casino. Receiving the winnings is supposed to be the most pleasant time for you and not for the world should be overshadowed by any obstacles, misunderstandings and conflicts! Unfortunately, my experience shows that this otherwise so sweet and long-awaited moment, very often turns into a terrible nightmare, able not only to spoil the good mood and lofty spirit, but also bring substantial material losses, not to mention the amount of wasted nerves and negative energy! To be completely honest, I've also been in similar situations, especially early in my career as a humble lover of slot games. And just because of the fact, that I was already on the fence, I would like to share with you some of my experience, which I hope will save you a great deal of negative emotions and allows you to enjoy the true, unadulterated thrill of gambling!
Another reason to write this guide is that, unfortunately, very limited number of people and gambling portals are trying to be more comprehensive and insightful when it comes to explaining how to withdraw your money from a casino smoothly! If you are looking for information about the process of depositing, trust me, you will be literally overwhelmed by such, but if it comes to withdrawing...its not that easy, I’m afraid! Most of them are limited only to indicate in short the technology and methods used for cashing out, but the intricacies of this very sensitive process as if always remain unspoken or passed over in silence all the way! I am far from thinking, this is done intentionally, but anyway when the facts speak, even the gods are silent! And those facts are telling, that the vast majority of the submitted formal and informal complaints are related to withdrawal of funds! So what does it mean? I think it means that this matter is not spoken enough, details of the withdrawal are not well explained by the casinos themselves and their affiliates, not to mention the terribly complicated terminology and fraught with difficulty understandable casino terms and conditions!
Finally, I would like to say that this is not a classic step-by-step guide, but rather a guide devoted to tips and examples on how to avoid potential trouble! It is designed for beginners and for those of you, with still insufficient experience in dealing with an online casino!
Well, time to talk on this topic more openly! No banned subjects, no complicated words, no subterfuge on sensitive topics! The truth and only the truth, at least that one, which I believe wholeheartedly!
Let's start with the first one than! And it is that in most cases, when the player finally reaches the sublime moment of withdrawal, he just has no idea when, by whom and what to expect! This is a phenomenon, I just have no logical explanation for, but in any case, the fact that the vast majority of users of online casinos entrust their money to an organization, for whose rules and manner of operation they have only superficial and vague idea, is simply shocking! If you have any doubts about this issue, I will recommend you digging around a little bit in the forums of any of the major gaming portals or across their sections dealing with customer’s complaints, and than you will make sure, the lack of basic knowledge about the technology of withdrawing is quite often the very basis of the specific problem!
Ok, but how to prevent ourselves from that kind of troubles?
There is only one way - through knowledge! Good knowledge of all details, even the smallest associated with the technology of withdrawing funds from an online casino is the only way to get quality and trouble free service in exchange for your money! Moreover - the possession of such knowledge would certainly give you the opportunity not only to quickly get your profits, but also to predict successfully future problems and to avoid them! And this is truly priceless! I know it's not easy for an ordinary customer of the casino to investigate in depth all the conditions, details and minor setbacks, especially if he/she does not speak and understood well at least one of the most popular languages, to digest all the information, to make necessary conclusions and to be able to take the most important – the decision namely, “Hey, is this casino will actually pay me everything and on time?”. Well, I guess that here exactly is my role - to attempt to recreate this process, using simple and easy to understand words and lots of examples, of course!
So enough with the generalities, let us examine in detail what we need to know to get money easily.
I. Investigate the casino
By investigation, I mean not only to determine whether the casino, in which you intend to play is reliable in terms of reputation, but to try to find out more about the existence of any problems, connected with the payment of profits, late payments, cases of confiscated winnings, etc. If you find such data, it is crucial to understand in what way and for how long the casino in question, coped with solving such cases, do they satisfied the claims of the player and if not, do they pointed any strong arguments for such a decision, do they maintained the good manner and attitude and so on. All these details are extremely important, because of one very simple reason - tomorrow you are the one, who can be involved in such a problem and if already have some idea what to expect as a reaction from the casino, then your chances for a successful outcome from such a situation would be quite good!
And since even the best are not insured against mistakes, I would like to give you an example from my own experience with one of the top-notch and well-known casino operators in the industry - 32Red. Almost from the start of my investigation of this casino group (32Red, Nedplay, Dash and Golden Lounge), I was impressed with the fact, that despite the presence of problematic situations, the players themselves, involved in these situations, shared more than good reviews, concerning the received assistance from representatives of the question group and confirmed of getting speedy and fair resolution of their problems! Only a few months ago I was able to convince that from first hand. The situation was as follows - in the spring of 2012 I requested a self-exclusion from the 32Red casino, not because of suffering from any gambling problems, but because I always try to maintain the accounts, in casinos that do not play in, closed for security reasons! Anyway, in June, I came across an offer for Nedplay casino, which I saw here - in AskGamblers.com and decided to try it. Of course, first I contacted the live chat and wanted to know whether I can play at this casino, and to use its promotion, since I already had an account and I took the advantage of promotions in his older sister casino - 32Red. I was given a green light, registered, got a bonus, played a lot and eventually managed to win several hundred dollars. I initiated a withdrawal and began to wait for my money with a silly smile on my face, since this was the first significant winning from months! But soon, just a few hours later, my hopes for quick and easy withdrawing evaporated. I was informed, that due to the requested self-exclusion from 32Red casino, I am not allowed to play in any of the casinos in this group, my account in Nedplay was closed, my winnings were voided and the initial deposit was refunded back to my Skrill! Immediately got in touch with their support and asked to speak with one of the managers, but all I managed to get was some polite excuses for their misunderstanding, and outright refusal to receive my winnings. Well, being not one of those who give up easily, my attempts to get what is mine continued, including through the use of a mediator from a large casino portal. Very soon one of the managers of the 32Red casino group contacted me, I managed to prove that nowhere in the self-exclusion form is mentioned that the exclusion of 32Red casino means an exclusion of all casinos in the group, he agreed with me, my account was reopened, my profit was paid, received a bunch of apologies for mistakes, admitted by the casino and got assurances that the conditions will be supplemented to avoid such misunderstandings in the future! Here's what I call a true professionalism! This is the right way, a reputation is build and protected in this business with such a fierce competition! Certainly, 32Red casino is not the only company with good reputation, fortunately there are still dozens of them! The important thing is not to be lazy and rely on someone else to do your work, explore everything, trust only the proven reliability of sources of information and always seek the best for your money! Believe me, this investment of time and analysis will reward you many times!
II. Terms and conditions of the withdrawal.
The withdrawal terms and conditions are not least important, compared to the general casino rules and conditions, since they are often an integral part of them, but most frequently are described separately, which actually is not done by accident, but with a purpose! And it is that, both the casino and the players are fully aware of what is most important for both parties and on what aspect should be paid more seriously attention! Even a glimpse of these rules could reveal a lot about what to expect from the casino, regarding its attitude to your money! If these rules and conditions are obscure and hard to find across the casino website, if they are described by only a few sentences, if they are full of restrictions on players and too liberal to the terms and obligations of the casino bank, I’m afraid than, that you should not assign particularly high hopes for such gambling operator! On the other hand, if everything related to withdrawal, such as time limits, required documentation and methods is clear, precise and fully defined, if the casino is committed unequivocally to specific time frames, if all this information is easily accessible and placed prominently enough in the site, well, that already speaks volume that you are dealing with a reliable operator, which should give you calmness and what is most importantly - the confidence that your money is safe and that you will not be deceived! It is easy to find all this, as mentioned above and it shouldn’t hinder you at all. So far, so good, but the more complicated and delicate problem is how to understand if all these terms are actually reasonable and affordable enough from your point of view, and where exactly you can expect the occurrence of possible misunderstandings and unpleasant surprises to come from! So let's get started!
Bonuses
You'll be surprised just how many of the problems, associated with casino withdrawals are connected in one way or another with the usage of some type of bonuses! I do not have exact statistics, but certainly at least half of these cases are due to their misunderstanding or misuse. It is therefore essential that you are fully aware of the technology of supplying, obtaining and enforcing the terms of any bonus or promotion you accepted! Because in general, a withdrawal of funds is a result of your game-play in the casino, and it often incorporates the use of various promotions and bonuses in it, right? Well, guess what happen with your withdrawal, if you didn’t fulfilled even the slightest of all the promotional terms and conditions? Do you think the casino will pay you? Of course not! I strongly recommend to those of you, having gaps in their knowledge about the bonuses to read very carefully Rule № 5 of this guide. Even the slightest ambiguity on this issue can bring you trouble, so don’t try to save time and effort. Only once you are a 101% familiar with the matter, you may hope for a smooth withdrawing, if any bonus is involved! Always check whether you have fulfilled all the wagering requirements of the promotions and bonuses, you have used before pressing the “Withdraw” button, otherwise you risk to say goodbye to your profits forever! Be careful if you adhere to the limitations associated with the type of authorized games and the maximum bet allowed - the violation of any of these rules actually will negate any cash-out, because such will surely be denied! And it will be denied with good reason - ignorance or misunderstanding cannot be a reason for anyone, not to mention the casino, not to honor its own rules! I know that sounds pretty serious, but when we talk about money - sometimes thousands, even tens of thousands, no one can afford to be simply flippant! At least this is my philosophy!
Pending periods
Unfortunately, these so-called "pending periods" are still an integral part of the process of withdrawing money from casinos. In general, this is a period of time, during which your money will stay frozen quietly somewhere in the depths of the casino server and none of the casino representatives will do anything with them. Unlike them, however, players are given the opportunity for doing the so-called "withdrawal reversal", through which you could get back in balance, any or all funds withdrawn before. This option is available until the pending period is running. Well, you are people, smart enough and I think it is completely unnecessary to go into details on this subject, but the fact, this is probably the only aspect, regarding the process of a withdrawal, that has not been changed much over the last 4-5 years is enough eloquent. It seems, it's all a matter of understanding the psychology of the ordinary gambler and actually the online casinos know that very well!Anyway, since we cannot change much about these pending periods, let me share at least what are the good and bad practices, regarding them. Of course, the best possible practice is the complete absence of any pending period! It seems to me, this is the most equitable in terms of players or at least provided that I've never had the opportunity to use a "pending deposit"?! If anyone among you has used such, please, I would like him to call me immediately and promise he would become a sensation! Another example of a good practice, regarding the pending periods is the ability for players to ask the casino support for a so-called "flushing a withdrawal", which basically means that your withdrawal will no longer be available for reversing. Most of the top casinos in the industry already offer this opportunity to its players, not to mention they’re already paying so quickly that there is no pending periods at all, let alone time to "flush"! On the other hand a great example of a bad casino practice in this respect is a pending period over 48 hours. In my opinion, even 48 hours are pretty much, but all over them is just a pure mockery with the patience and good manner of the player! So, take your notes!Minimum and maximum withdrawal limits
This is another example of a sensitive issue, for which is surprisingly little talk about, bearing in mind the importance this matter! Probably many of you have not even noticed the existence of these limits, but trust me if you had the misfortune to choose the wrong casino and in the same time have the most appropriate luck to win much, very soon you will find out what I am talking about! Anyway, the normal minimum limits for a withdrawal are within 10 to 30 credits, while the maximum limits are in the range of 3000 – 10000 credits per transaction. There are also weekly and monthly limits, but my personal feeling and understanding is that everything under the 5000-10000 credits for weekly and at least 20000-30000 for monthly limit is extremely unfair to the players! I tried however to familiarize you with concrete examples of conditions that do not have anything in common with the reasonable balance between time and money, not to mention that work directly against the player’s interests!„…A player is permitted to withdraw a maximum of $2500 USD of their winnings per month…”
„…The minimum withdrawal amount at the casino is $100…”
„…A maximum of $2000 (Two Thousand US Dollars) will be sent per week, all balances will be sent in increments of $2000 the following week(s)…”
„…The minimum withdrawal via Wire Transfer is $900…”
If you ever encounter similar or even close to these conditions, I will afford myself to give you only one advice – run from such a casino and never come back, because the troubles will not late!Fees
To be completely honest and frank, I think that burdening players with any kind and type of fees is quite unfair to some extent! In one way or another, our banks do collect tribute from each transaction, electronic wallets too, but when I have to pay a fee for the casino seems a bit much. Anyway, thoughts of an ordinary gambler do not matter from what I’ve seen so far! So, you, dear players, must be aware that the probability of coming across a casino, asking you for a fee, although in lower amounts, when withdrawing funds is not wise to be ignored! An example of a good casino practice in respect of fees for withdrawal is the complete absence of such, but if you impose such, it should be certainly not exceeding the amount of the symbolic 2-3 credit for cashing out to a credit / debit card and 20 - 50 credits for payment by check. And it is mandatory, those fees to be announced on the website of the casino and within its general terms and conditions. However, if you encounter similar conditions as those I have enumerated below, be sure you are well prepared for doing a short sprint, cause you should run away fast again!
„…ACH transfers less than $500 are subject to a $10 fee …”
„…There is a flat fee of $35 dollars per wire…”
„…Players maintain sole responsibility for any and all processing fees on withdrawals…”
But the worst I’ve seen so far was back in 2009, when GoCasino was still alive. I was charged for а $1700 bank wire transfer exactly $87.50!!! No comment!
Withdrawals timeframe
The theme of the time, necessary for each casino to complete the process of cashing out, and with which it is formally bound by its own terms and conditions is extremely beneficial for doing some reflection, as well as a space for violent verbal debates and at least a ten thousand page soap opera script, that every major gambling forum could supply without any problems! So much has been spoken on this issue and unfortunately so little is done to protect the interests of us – the regular players! I would like to illustrate this last sentence with a small verbal game of questions and answers, if you allow me!
Q: What would happen to a player who violates even the smallest casino condition, even unintentionally, and asked to withdraw his/her profit?
A: The withdrawal will be denied, the player will be penalized!
Q: Are there any exceptions to this rule?
A: No, none! Even if one million players violated the rules all of them, down to the last one of those 1 million players will be punished strictly!
Q: What would happen to a casino if it does not pay, what it owes to the players, within the stated timeframes by the same casino and thus violates its own rules and conditions?
A: Absolutely nothing! On top of that, in the last year or so it is becoming more and more fashionable this kind of joke: "You may experience some delays in payment, but eventually you'll be paid!"
Q: Are there any exceptions to this rule?
A: No, none! Even if one million casino violated this rule, exactly 0, zero, nada from them will be punished!
No further comment from me on that! I leave you alone to make your own conclusions.
However, it is important for all of you to know the good and bad standards, regarding this matter, of course. A great example of some rapid and accordingly, favorable terms for the player, is this particular withdrawals timeframe table:
And here follow some appalling examples of how shocking can be the difference between the quality of service, offered by the casinos.
„…First time withdrawals and changes to payment instructions are subject to clearance by our Security Department. This can take between 5-10 business days….”
„…The casino’s finance department may take up to 10 business days to approve player withdrawals …”
„…All withdrawals that meet the cash-out requirements will be approved within 10-15 business days of the date the withdrawal was requested …”
„…withdrawal to your credit card will be processed after 2 days. Please note that your funds can take up to 10 business days to reach your Bank account. Should you be using a MasterCard, it is possible that you will receive your withdrawal after 20 business days …”
Verification process
The process of proving and confirming your identity in front of the casino security department is undoubtedly of great importance for both sides. Unfortunately, many of the players, especially those with less experience, quite often afford themselves to underestimate this matter and consequently have enormous difficulties! It is important to know that in general the player can not withdraw funds before the confirmation of his identity. Only a very few casinos will allow any payment, before your documents proving age, name and address, are checked carefully for matching the information submitted by you during the registration in 100%! But even if you find such casinos, when the amount you wish to withdraw, exceeds $500-1000, this procedure is started immediately! So, now way to run from that process – no verification, no withdrawals! I recommend you treating this matter very seriously, even starting it on your own, without waiting for the casino, because the sooner you go through the verification, the sooner you can cash out, and thus you would avoid unnecessary delays at a later stage. Keep in mind that except the top casinos, sometimes this procedure may take days, even weeks, not to mention if the amount, you wish to withdraw is greater! In addition, the tactics with multiple requirement, consideration and rejection of the documents, although everything with them is ok, is often used by less scrupulous casinos to delay your payment! So, what you should do in order to avoid problems with the verification process:
- If you ever have even the slightest doubt that you will not pass this test, do not even think to register and play in any casino! All your personal information, like names, addresses, age, credit / debit cards, etc., must and will be thoroughly checked for accuracy and compliance of 100% - not 99%, not even 99.99% but 100% . Even one single wrong letter, no matter intentionally or unintentionally, and you can say goodbye to your money! This rule has no exception!
- Begin the process of verification immediately after registration, because it will save you valuable time, when withdrawing, especially for the first time, and will also deny the casino (especially if you come to the wrong one) the opportunity of fooling you, using one of its favorite methods to continue delaying your payments!
- All the documents, you will be required to send to the casino security department must be clear and readable. Because, if you find it difficult to read and understand that documents, imagine what could be for a regular casino employee, who is supposed to examine hundreds of documents a day! So what this person will do is probably to return them and instead of spending a few minutes and make better copies, you will lose a day or two to post new and to wait again your turn!
- If you are using any of the existing e-wallets for both depositing and withdrawing from a casino, do not send any information, regarding your credit or debit cards, even if you are strongly requested to do so. You do not owe any information about something that you do not use! Moreover, this is one of the favorite method, the rogue casinos are using, to collect this kind of sensitive information, which then only God knows in whose hands can end up!
- Some casinos offer their customers an embedded website interface through which to attach the necessary documents for verification. Without any doubt, this is a great solution, but check if the Internet address of the web interface in question begins with “https” - this is a reliable guarantee for the security of your data when transferring, which usually the regular “http” does not supply!
- Always look for how your personal information is kept and what measures the casino has taken to guard them from unauthorized access!
III. The “God clauses”
The reason I decided to pay a particular attention to this delicate matter in this context is that in the last 2-3 years more and more online casinos are allowing themselves to use these so-called "God clauses", especially when it comes to delayed, canceled or confiscated payments! So, what actually I am talking about? These “God clauses” are inserted in the terms and conditions of the majority of the online casinos and basically allow them to do whatever, whenever and however they want to! Here are some examples of such absolutely illegal nonsense!
„…The casino’s verdict vis – à – vis any wager or winnings dispute shall be conclusive and binding.…”
“…In the event of any dispute, all decisions made by the casino will be final.…”
“…In the case of a dispute, where the casino has reviewed the evidence and made a decision, the decisions of the casino are final…” and so on, and so on!
First I would like to assure you that no matter how much weight the casino is attaching to those pompous verbal misunderstandings, actually they do not mean anything in terms of the law! Neither you, nor the casino has the right to be both a party and a judge in the case of a conflict between you! So, very sorry but the final decisions of the casino are not final at all! Actually, they are often just the beginning of a long battle, in which the player is supposed to prove he is right. Those, who have the right to judge, who is right and who is not in a conflict and whose decisions are binding on both parties, are only the organizations relevant for giving a casino a license and/or are involved in its regulation!
Second, in terms of the law, these terms and conditions are almost on the verge of the law, not to say something else, because it is obvious they put one of the sides in a very dominant role! Not to mention that if indeed the last word of the casino was final, it would not exist so many organizations and gambling portals, engaged in mediation in conflict resolution between players and casinos!
Thirdly, I find it very degrading to the players, putting such clauses in any circumstances! However, the relationships between a casino and its customers are supposed to be just a simple example of business relationships, not a medieval serfdom! And I think it is time this mockery with the players to be stopped! And since this “God” matter is extremely unpleasant for me, I am finishing it right now, just will use the case to remind you, that more on how to resolve conflicts with a casino, you can read HERE!
Well, I think that this is all I wanted to share! I hope that once you have the information here, if you will able to reduce the conflict situations in respect of payment if not entirely, at least to the absolute minimum! However, the ingenuity of the casinos and the players sometimes, when it comes to mixing of yet another mess of money, time and many nerves, is truly remarkable!
Be brave but never unreasonable and remember that there is no room for mistakes in this business! Wish you luck, dear friends!
Interesting read! Being fairly new to online gambling and as yet to win any significant amount, I did not realise how hard it can be to get your winnings!
Very informative. Thanks.
- If you ever have even the slightest doubt that you will not pass this test, do not even think to register and play in any casino! All your personal information, like names, addresses, age, credit / debit cards, etc., must and will be thoroughly checked for accuracy and compliance of 100% - not 99%, not even 99.99% but 100% . Even one single wrong letter, no matter intentionally or unintentionally, and you can say goodbye to your money! This rule has no exception!
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I joined, got my full bonus, didn't come out on top, but got my money's worth and had a good time! Recommended.
Not accepted in US?
in Best and Worst
Posted
I don't understand this either, not that I am from the US, but a lot of European casinos not accept players from the US, why?